[susie q]

The thing that makes me so angry about these claims of someone not winning because of their race, is that undermines those who experiencing genuine and far more serious consequences of racism. Those who experience violence, exclusion etc because of their race. The emphasis being on race, I have just watched Coronation street on catch up, it looks as if they maybe developing a storyline relating to the rise of modern day slavery amongst Eastern European women. We all know that this is on the rise, but does anyone care, indeed we are seeing a rise in hate crimes/bigotry against eastern European migrants. In short anyone regardless of their colour can become victims of racism.

I didnt want Tiffany to win because of her behaviour, not because of her colour.
But lets get a perspective on this, Like all the others that didnt win, shes walked out the
house with a nice fat cheque, and yes like the others she has earned it so well done to her. She will be going home to country where she will be free to spend it, unlike many
others who wont.
Posts like these could potentially set back the cause of equality years, fortunately that wont happen because the majority of the population dont take them seriously, and also dont like the race card being brought when it isnt necessary. CBB really is just a game show.

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by susie q

The thing that makes me so angry about these claims of someone not winning because of their race, is that undermines those who experiencing genuine and far more serious consequences of racism. Those who experience violence, exclusion etc because of their race. The emphasis being on race, I have just watched Coronation street on catch up, it looks as if they maybe developing a storyline relating to the rise of modern day slavery amongst Eastern European women. We all know that this is on the rise, but does anyone care, indeed we are seeing a rise in hate crimes/bigotry against eastern European migrants. In short anyone regardless of their colour can become victims of racism.

I didnt want Tiffany to win because of her behaviour, not because of her colour.
But lets get a perspective on this, Like all the others that didnt win, shes walked out the
house with a nice fat cheque, and yes like the others she has earned it so well done to her. She will be going home to country where she will be free to spend it, unlike many
others who wont.
Posts like these could potentially set back the cause of equality years, fortunately that wont happen because the majority of the population dont take them seriously, and also dont like the race card being brought when it isnt necessary. CBB really is just a game show.

[alex_front2]

Originally Posted by susie q

The thing that makes me so angry about these claims of someone not winning because of their race, is that undermines those who experiencing genuine and far more serious consequences of racism. Those who experience violence, exclusion etc because of their race. The emphasis being on race, I have just watched Coronation street on catch up, it looks as if they maybe developing a storyline relating to the rise of modern day slavery amongst Eastern European women. We all know that this is on the rise, but does anyone care, indeed we are seeing a rise in hate crimes/bigotry against eastern European migrants. In short anyone regardless of their colour can become victims of racism.

I didnt want Tiffany to win because of her behaviour, not because of her colour.
But lets get a perspective on this, Like all the others that didnt win, shes walked out the
house with a nice fat cheque, and yes like the others she has earned it so well done to her. She will be going home to country where she will be free to spend it, unlike many
others who wont.
Posts like these could potentially set back the cause of equality years, fortunately that wont happen because the majority of the population dont take them seriously, and also dont like the race card being brought when it isnt necessary. CBB really is just a game show.

Firstly most of the crimes committed against Eastern Europeans eg slavery, rape, violence , trafficking are by white people. Bigotry yes, jingoism sure.

Secondly racism isn't just KKK, BNP, EDL violence. It could be in the form of microaggresions.And I for one are glad black and other groups are hitting back and not faint it.

[susie q]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

Firstly most of the crimes committed against Eastern Europeans eg slavery, rape, violence , trafficking are by white people. Bigotry yes, jingoism sure.

Secondly racism isn't just KKK, BNP, EDL violence. It could be in the form of microaggresions.And I for one are glad black and other groups are hitting back and not faint it.

My point is that East European girls are experiencing racism not only by who is doing it to them, but by those fail to do any thing about because they are only girls from Eastern Europe. It really isnt just black people that suffer from racism. I am also old enough to remember the racism directed Irish people, because of the IRA, they all had to terrorists etc,its probably like what Muslims are sufferring now. (no one seems to be to concerned about the asian community) Rascism is just wrong no matter who is suffering it black, white, jewish, muslim etc.

There is not any evidence to suggest that Tiffany has experienced racism inside or outside the house. I am the same as other people on this forum who simply did not want her to win because of her behaviour, her colour had
nothing to do with it, I would have been the same had she been white, jewish etc. However she did well to get 4th, and I wish her well for the future.

To continue suggesting that she didnt win purely on the grounds of her race, is just the sort of attitude that plays into the hands of groups like the BNP.
If you wish to pursue a racist element of Tiffany or anyone else not winning because they are black, provide some factual evidence your arguement may just "hold water" And just for the sake of fairness include some of the other groups Ive mentioned.
In the mean time stop assuming that people didnt vote for her because they are racist, that attitude is now in danger of becoming offensive.

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Because examples of racism and sexism and even xenophobia are very much present on this programme and British people don't like to admit that we can and still do have issues with such things because it goes against our seemingly 'tolerant' nature?

And believe me, there is plenty of foundation and I am in no way trivialising anything, I cannot obviously elaborate any further or else I'd be reprimanded. But someone can feel free to give me the go ahead and I'll happily write you an essay with plenty of examples to back up mine (and many others) very genuine claims.

Right, your exact words were

People don't like this being pointed out because deep down they know it's true, or even worse, they're guilty of it

So tell me, does that apply to everyone who has an issue with these constant claims of racism? Which one am I, in denial or a racist myself? And you've yet to explain how accusing a whole bunch of people you don't know of such things has "plenty of foundation".

Having experienced racism, I can assure you neither of those accusations at all applies to me, but feel free to continue to make wildly offensive claims about people just because they don't like to cry racism at the drop of a hat.

If you don't intend to elaborate then you have no business in making such outrageous and insulting claims in the first place.

Originally Posted by susie q

The thing that makes me so angry about these claims of someone not winning because of their race, is that undermines those who experiencing genuine and far more serious consequences of racism. Those who experience violence, exclusion etc because of their race. The emphasis being on race, I have just watched Coronation street on catch up, it looks as if they maybe developing a storyline relating to the rise of modern day slavery amongst Eastern European women. We all know that this is on the rise, but does anyone care, indeed we are seeing a rise in hate crimes/bigotry against eastern European migrants. In short anyone regardless of their colour can become victims of racism.

I didnt want Tiffany to win because of her behaviour, not because of her colour.
But lets get a perspective on this, Like all the others that didnt win, shes walked out the
house with a nice fat cheque, and yes like the others she has earned it so well done to her. She will be going home to country where she will be free to spend it, unlike many
others who wont.
Posts like these could potentially set back the cause of equality years, fortunately that wont happen because the majority of the population dont take them seriously, and also dont like the race card being brought when it isnt necessary. CBB really is just a game show.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

Right, your exact words were

So tell me, does that apply to everyone who has an issue with these constant claims of racism? Which one am I, in denial or a racist myself? And you've yet to explain how accusing a whole bunch of people you don't know of such things has "plenty of foundation".

Having experienced racism, I can assure you neither of those accusations at all applies to me, but feel free to continue to make wildly offensive claims about people just because they don't like to cry racism at the drop of a hat.

If you don't intend to elaborate then you have no business in making such outrageous and insulting claims in the first place.

No, or else I'd have said 'everyone that complains about this being pointed out' but I didn't, I said 'people' which could mean two people or a hundred. Now we're verging on dabbling in petty semantics and I'm not going to entertain such a discussion.

For the second time, and I won't be repeating myself again - I'm not about to elaborate on such claims because, as far as I am aware, that would be against the rules. If and when I'm told I'm allowed I will do so, because there is very real evidence in existence to justify such claims, hence why I have 'such business' in making them in the first place, please calm down with the hyperbole. I should also point out I am not exclusively referring to people on here, I was talking in general. There are most definitely examples of people disliking housemates purely based on ethnicity, nationality and gender, or judging them differently because of that, whether it's on here, social media, in voting patterns or the way the show treats and portrays them itself.

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Jack_

No, or else I'd have said 'everyone that complains about this being pointed out' but I didn't, I said 'people' which could mean two people or a hundred. Now we're verging on dabbling in petty semantics and I'm not going to entertain such a discussion.

For the second time, and I won't be repeating myself again - I'm not about to elaborate on such claims because, as far as I am aware, that would be against the rules. If and when I'm told I'm allowed I will do so, because there is very real evidence in existence to justify such claims, hence why I have 'such business' in making them in the first place, please calm down with the hyperbole. I should also point out I am not exclusively referring to people on here, I was talking in general. There are most definitely examples of people disliking housemates purely based on ethnicity, nationality and gender, or judging them differently because of that.

Precisely, you said "people", not "some" or "certain" people. I've found people usually backtrack or blame "semantics" because of their own poor word choice.

And I'm sure there are examples of people disliking (and also liking, for that matter) housemates based on their ethnicity, I never once denied that, that would be denying racism exists altogether. I simply don't believe that was the driving factor in Tiffany (and various others before her) not winning.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

Precisely, you said "people", not "some" or "certain" people. I've found people usually backtrack or blame "semantics" because of their own poor word choice.

And I'm sure there are examples of people disliking (and also liking, for that matter) housemates based on their ethnicity, I never once denied that, that would be denying racism exists altogether. I simply don't believe that was the driving factor in Tiffany (and various others before her) not winning.

And I find that people usually incite semantic discussions when they're desperately seeking an argument, or to be offended - or both.

Okay then? But I think the evidence is stacked against you. If countless black women have been evicted over white males when most of the time they've done nothing wrong except...well, be black, if black women can be labelled 'aggressive' and 'unsafe' yet white women can act even more aggressively and people laugh it off, if there can be forty something series and no black woman has ever won...then yes I think there's some deep rooted issues. And passing them off as 'well they need to cast better black women' like many people do as if they've all been the ****ing same is what's actually wildly offensive, not pointing it out.

[Parmy]

They just need the right one in whos likeable to most viewers.....oprah, rusty lee..pauline black...

All would have a good chance, and wouldnt chase you lads about grabbing at their cocks.

[hot2go]

It's an attitude thing more than a black thing....for the most part the black females that enter the house have chosen to adopt a certain type of personality, ie, outspoken, gobby, brash and queen bitch of everyone in there....and if this was the USA it would be different but in the UK we just don't celebrate females like that enough for them to win.....only exception I can think of was Helen Wood and that should never of happened....ever.
Megan was voted out even before the final so were the voters being racist to her ? So did Gemma.....I don't see this as a black thing ...the girl came in fourth place, as an unknown American that is a remarkable achievement and reflects how not racist we are in this country.

[alex_front2]

Originally Posted by hot2go

It's an attitude thing more than a black thing....for the most part the black females that enter the house have chosen to adopt a certain type of personality, ie, outspoken, gobby, brash and queen bitch of everyone in there....and if this was the USA it would be different but in the UK we just don't celebrate females like that enough for them to win.....only exception I can think of was Helen Wood and that should never of happened....ever.
Megan was voted out even before the final so were the voters being racist to her ? So did Gemma.....I don't see this as a black thing ...the girl came in fourth place, as an unknown American that is a remarkable achievement and reflects how not racist we are in this country.

So Helen Wood was black then? Megan, Angie, and Stephanie were all more aggressive than Tiff. They all attacked the DR camera, the two youngsters had security called in. However they will get labeled feisty, Tiff will be labelled angry dangerous and aggressive. Even though when Megan had her "clean up her sh*t" rant folk were very happy to explain it away as the alcohol. Whereas Tiff's conduct was described as part of her nature, as you know black women are angry. ALL THE TIME.

[hot2go]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

So Helen Wood was black then? Megan, Angie, and Stephanie were all more aggressive than Tiff. They all attacked the DR camera, the two youngsters had security called in. However they will get labeled feisty, Tiff will be labelled angry dangerous and aggressive. Even though when Megan had her "clean up her sh*t" rant folk were very happy to explain it away as the alcohol. Whereas Tiff's conduct was described as part of her nature, as you know black women are angry. ALL THE TIME.

Well you just backed up what I said ....you did exactly what I did I compared Tiffany with Megan and Gemma, they were all confident out spoken females and they didn't win either....in fact, unlike Tiffany, they didn't reach the final....and as for Steph, who also DIDNT WIN, she was gobby and outspoken and fought her corner like the others did, but she had one quality that took the edge off and that was the fact that she was the opposite of the other girls because she had no confidence at all....and that is why the British public accepted her behaviour easier than from the others.
And my reference to Helen Wood was my observation of a female winner who was confident and out spoken and proud...shes not really relevant, as a human being, but I knew that by stating that strong gobby women don't usually win the show, that she would be thrown back at me as an example of one who did. I just got there first and saved you all the trouble.
Tiffany didn't win for the same reasons the white girls didn't win and it has nothing to do with anything other than her personality, which good or bad, was just too strong as a female for it to reach a big enough audience to win.
And if a man had the exact same qualities he too would probably not win

[cassieparis]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

So Helen Wood was black then? Megan, Angie, and Stephanie were all more aggressive than Tiff. They all attacked the DR camera, the two youngsters had security called in. However they will get labeled feisty, Tiff will be labelled angry dangerous and aggressive. Even though when Megan had her "clean up her sh*t" rant folk were very happy to explain it away as the alcohol. Whereas Tiff's conduct was described as part of her nature, as you know black women are angry. ALL THE TIME.

Best post of the thread. The contrarians can now continue to tie their knots and themselves in denial of your logic.

These people that think racism is getting dressed up in sheets and shouting the N word must live this unconsciously as a defence mechanism.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

So Helen Wood was black then? Megan, Angie, and Stephanie were all more aggressive than Tiff. They all attacked the DR camera, the two youngsters had security called in. However they will get labeled feisty, Tiff will be labelled angry dangerous and aggressive. Even though when Megan had her "clean up her sh*t" rant folk were very happy to explain it away as the alcohol. Whereas Tiff's conduct was described as part of her nature, as you know black women are angry. ALL THE TIME.

Excellent post.

[Merry Mockmas]

Tiffany had a multitude of different issues going against her and I'll list them all for those that are interested.

1. She was Ch5's worst enemy....... being black.

2. She was a woman.

3. She was a woman that thought about sexual things and made sexual jokes towards two men in the house.

4. No home territory meant that she was playing catch up from the very beginning and did very well to still bag 4th.

5. She was probably the least known of the final which means that she has the least connections in the UK to get her votes like how the others had friends and family being able to campaign for votes for their person that they know.

6. I don't think that many people will agree with me on this, but a lot of people on the Forums can be very sheepish and Housemates like Tiffany fall victim of getting "support" but away from their computers they're secretly voting for Scotty T, Stephanie, Darren etc, it's why you can never trust the Forums opinions too much.

[Raph]

She was never going to win a black female and asian male will never win big brother uk

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Raph

She was never going to win a black female and asian male will never win big brother uk

Fatboy or the dad in eastenders would have a good shout.

[jennyjuniper]

I think a black female could easily win, provided they choose contestants who are not bitchy and aggressive as previous black female housemates have been.
For instance when Charley made her guest appearence on last years BB, I noticed she had mellowed enormously. If she had been like that in her year she would have had a good chance of winning.

[Headie]

Originally Posted by jennyjuniper

I think a black female could easily win, provided they choose contestants who are not bitchy and aggressive as previous black female housemates have been.
For instance when Charley made her guest appearence on last years BB, I noticed she had mellowed enormously. If she had been like that in her year she would have had a good chance of winning.

I agree that much of it is down to BB casting stereotypical black girls, however how do you account for people like Jo, Ife, Alison, Rachel Ifon etc getting evicted to heavy boos and large eviction percentages when they were generally quiet, sweet girls?

Alison Hammond pretty much has all the characteristics of a typical BBUK winner, yet she was evicted Week 2 over 2 white males?

[hot2go]

Originally Posted by Hayden

I agree that much of it is down to BB casting stereotypical black girls, however how do you account for people like Jo, Ife, Alison, Rachel Ifon etc getting evicted to heavy boos and large eviction percentages when they were generally quiet, sweet girls?

Alison Hammond pretty much has all the characteristics of a typical BBUK winner, yet she was evicted Week 2 over 2 white males?

I don't recall most of those names, or most of any of the house mates from so far back...but I also don't recall any housemate getting boos and a bad crowd for no apparent reason....usually when someone receives boos it's pretty obv the reason why.....I'm shocked if Alison Hammond got boos, I didn't think she did.
I was shocked she got evicted at the time though ... but that's not the first or last time we've lost great housemates early in the show, black or white.
I can't speak from exp of how it feels to find the programme racist because I simply don't think it is....but I do know if I believed it was racist then I wouldn't be watching it....if was homophobic I wouldn't entertain it either....makes me wonder why you give it your time.

[Headie]

Originally Posted by hot2go

I don't recall most of those names, or most of any of the house mates from so far back...but I also don't recall any housemate getting boos and a bad crowd for no apparent reason....usually when someone receives boos it's pretty obv the reason why.....I'm shocked if Alison Hammond got boos, I didn't think she did.
I was shocked she got evicted at the time though ... but that's not the first or last time we've lost great housemates early in the show, black or white.
I can't speak from exp of how it feels to find the programme racist because I simply don't think it is....but I do know if I believed it was racist then I wouldn't be watching it....if was homophobic I wouldn't entertain it either....makes me wonder why you give it your time.

Exactly.

Jo, Ife and Rachel were practically invisible in the edit and when they were shown they were just shown as quiet, nice, friendly girls. Yet they were all evicted over much more divisive charatcers

[hot2go]

Originally Posted by Hayden

Exactly.

Jo, Ife and Rachel were practically invisible in the edit and when they were shown they were just shown as quiet, nice, friendly girls. Yet they were all evicted over much more divisive charatcers

And you think White House mates haven't been ?.....sorry, but you dream.....I don't have so many examples cause i don't hang on so much to those old previous shows....but two that spring to mind who were likeable and funny and came across as nice housemate and were evicted really early were the Eastnders actors who played Heather Trott and Sonia Jackson.

If you gen believe the show is so racist then why do you still support such bigotry ? Be like me watching a Chubby Brown DVD, ain't ever gonna happen

[LukeB]

Isn't it a bit unfair to say "People don't like this being pointed out because deep down they know it's true, or even worse, they're guilty of it" without any evidence because I know some people who don't agree but don't think they are guilty of being racist because they haven't shown those things.


The whole black woman will never win, I can see where people are coming from because there are some evidence of this. the public are not all to blame, it's the casting and the production. Look at Adjoa's public reaction, she wasn't a loud mouth or did anything wrong but she got OFF OFF OFF OFF OFF OFF.. Also Hira got booed too when she didn't do anything bad in her VT.

[Headie]

Originally Posted by LukeB

Isn't it a bit unfair to say "People don't like this being pointed out because deep down they know it's true, or even worse, they're guilty of it" without any evidence because I know some people who don't agree but don't think they are guilty of being racist because they haven't shown those things.


The whole black woman will never win, I can see where people are coming from because there are some evidence of this. the public are not all to blame, it's the casting and the production. Look at Adjoa's public reaction, she wasn't a loud mouth or did anything wrong but she got OFF OFF OFF OFF OFF OFF.. Also Hira got booed too when she didn't do anything bad in her VT.

This is actually the best post of the thread tbh

[Jason.]

Adjoa being verbally abused and bullied by the fat chavs in the crowd still haunts me </3