[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

If Boris can bring things like this to pass,he's ok by me
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...cid=spartanntp

LONG overdue imo.

Yep good move

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by jet

Just payed a visit here tonight on night shift and read for a good few hours. Fair play to you Kaz for sticking to your own opinions with so many dissenting voices trying to 'educate' you (how good of them, eh?) and change your mind. I see that like minded members like Livia, LT, Chuff, Alf, are all banned... WTH? Well, well well....very odd....

Most others are all of one mindset and agreeing with each other ad nauseum. Makes for fascinating reading....NOT. What a snore fest this site now is....mainly one sided dialogue all saying mainly the same things like an broken record. A shadow of its former self compared to the good ole days....and those who are sorely needed for balance and to help keep it more interesting and diverse and stimulating are all banned.
What a disappointing visit, for me anyway...

Good to see you a Jet, yes it’s Like Groundhog Day in SD at the minute

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by jet

Just payed a visit here tonight on night shift and read for a good few hours. Fair play to you Kaz for sticking to your own opinions with so many dissenting voices trying to 'educate' you (how good of them, eh?) and change your mind. I see that like minded members like Livia, LT, Chuff, Alf, are all banned... WTH? Well, well well....very odd....

Most others are all of one mindset and agreeing with each other ad nauseum. Makes for fascinating reading....NOT. What a snore fest this site now is....mainly one sided dialogue all saying mainly the same things like an broken record. A shadow of its former self compared to the good ole days....and those who are sorely needed for balance and to help keep it more interesting and diverse and stimulating are all banned.
What a disappointing visit, for me anyway...

...I guess jet..(...and hey, btw.....)...that I am one of the one mindset people who is agreeing ad nauseam and part of the snore fest that you speak of...?...I think though that there is a huge reason why many voices ...(...both on and off the forum...)...are uniting under the reign of Boris Johnson...his determination of a no deal stance...(...whether it be to pleasure Donald Trump or whatever his own self serving reason..)...is something that threatens the peace and stability in Northern Ireland, which I know is something that is very personal to you as well ...and obviously, a huge reason for your feelings on Corbyn, which I completely understand......but the thought that we could go back there and be led back there by selfish government egos is so frightening to many, both living in and out of Northern Ireland...hence the uniting of voices, which for me...?...need to unite more and more...I am a bit baffled that you seem to be looking at those voices with disdain ...

[lime]

Originally Posted by jet

Just payed a visit here tonight on night shift and read for a good few hours. Fair play to you Kaz for sticking to your own opinions with so many dissenting voices trying to 'educate' you (how good of them, eh?) and change your mind. I see that like minded members like Livia, LT, Chuff, Alf, are all banned... WTH? Well, well well....very odd....

Most others are all of one mindset and agreeing with each other ad nauseum. Makes for fascinating reading....NOT. What a snore fest this site now is....mainly one sided dialogue all saying mainly the same things like an broken record. A shadow of its former self compared to the good ole days....and those who are sorely needed for balance and to help keep it more interesting and diverse and stimulating are all banned.
What a disappointing visit, for me anyway...

So nothing of relevance to say re Brexit..Your only contribution is to wine about your mates been banned.

Telling stuff right there Jet

No analogous at all re Brexit

[Nicky91]

uk will be leaving the EU, a deal or a no deal, or a kick under the arse by the EU

majority of people voted to leave in 2016, so if this brexit is revoked it is a serious blow to democracy in the uk


''leave means leave'' and make it ASAP pls, i am sick and tired seeing this brexit news mess invade our dutch breakfast news either

[lime]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

If Boris can bring things like this to pass,he's ok by me
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...cid=spartanntp

LONG overdue imo.

Sure ..I don't think anyone would disagree with that.
Problem is his party has been in power for a decade and have not pursued this.

It's election time and he neglets to acknoledge the facts that he backed the cuts to the police..health care..social services..Why do the British public choose to run with a marvel comic characther and not challenge him on this is beyond me

[lime]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

uk will be leaving the EU, a deal or a no deal, or a kick under the arse by the EU

majority of people voted to leave in 2016, so if this brexit is revoked it is a serious blow to democracy in the uk


''leave means leave'' and make it ASAP pls, i am sick and tired seeing this brexit news mess invade our dutch breakfast news either

True Nicky..

Leave means leave..We in the EU have our own domestic issues to be getting on with..What will a 2nd referendum solve?

[lime]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I guess jet..(...and hey, btw.....)...that I am one of the one mindset people who is agreeing ad nauseam and part of the snore fest that you speak of...?...I think though that there is a huge reason why many voices ...(...both on and off the forum...)...are uniting under the reign of Boris Johnson...his determination of a no deal stance...(...whether it be to pleasure Donald Trump or whatever his own self serving reason..)...is something that threatens the peace and stability in Northern Ireland, which I know is something that is very personal to you as well ...and obviously, a huge reason for your feelings on Corbyn, which I completely understand......but the thought that we could go back there and be led back there by selfish government egos is so frightening to many, both living in and out of Northern Ireland...hence the uniting of voices, which for me...?...need to unite more and more...I am a bit baffled that you seem to be looking at those voices with disdain ...

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by lime

True Nicky..

Leave means leave..We in the EU have our own domestic issues to be getting on with..What will a 2nd referendum solve?

yes our Green New Deal for a cleaner, greener, better europe

that is a priority for EU now, but this plan is in good hands with our Frans Timmermans

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by lime

Sure ..I don't think anyone would disagree with that.
Problem is his party has been in power for a decade and have not pursued this.

It's election time and he neglets to acknoledge the facts that he backed the cuts to the police..health care..social services..Why do the British public choose to run with a marvel comic characther and not challenge him on this is beyond me

And it seems he wants to put that right,maybe he has realised less police is not a good idea etc, he,imo is no more untrustworthy than any of the others,and whatever names you call him ie, a marvel comic character, does not make me change my mind anyway,there are several names I could call the opposition,but imo it doesn't change a thing.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

If Boris can bring things like this to pass,he's ok by me
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...cid=spartanntp

LONG overdue imo.

Populist campaigning propaganda that will be conveniently forgotten as soon as its served its purpose

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jet

Just payed a visit here tonight on night shift and read for a good few hours. Fair play to you Kaz for sticking to your own opinions with so many dissenting voices trying to 'educate' you (how good of them, eh?) and change your mind. I see that like minded members like Livia, LT, Chuff, Alf, are all banned... WTH? Well, well well....very odd....

Most others are all of one mindset and agreeing with each other ad nauseum. Makes for fascinating reading....NOT. What a snore fest this site now is....mainly one sided dialogue all saying mainly the same things like an broken record. A shadow of its former self compared to the good ole days....and those who are sorely needed for balance and to help keep it more interesting and diverse and stimulating are all banned.
What a disappointing visit, for me anyway...

As a dissenting voice let me make it clear, I don't come on here to educate anyone. .I
I have an opinion and I express it, that's it. Personally I'd say many can see this attempt by Boris to draw those who quite rightly want tougher sentences for those crimes in is nothing but an election ploy. Look at all the bills that were dropped because of prorogation, his attempting to redeem himself for those by offering this.
Here in Yorkshire he has not been received very well and I'd echo the advice to him given in Morley and Doncaster. Get back to Westminster and do your job!
I'm sorry your visit was marred by the absence of certain members but be reassured there are still many who are able to counter any 'broken records' with equally damaged plastic opinion.

[arista]

“They are not Going to break the Law”
“They are going to go around it”
To leave on the 31st of October.

Ref: Katy Balls
Paper Review . Marr BBC1HD.

[Ammi]

...we are not going to break the law, we’re going to go around the law...while expecting the population to follow the law...because we are the law and the law wins.../...Judge Johnson...

[joeysteele]

Less police are the result of cuts from 2010.
Reported 20,000 less.

Now is the mentioned 20,000 police officers, over the next 3 years or so.
Are they 20,000 nett extra.

As thousands of Police officers will be retiring over the next few years..
Will they still be being replaced on top of this proposed 20,000.

Otherwise they won't be possibly being increased in numbers that much.

As for the sentencing of child killers being more severe.
Of course that's a good idea in theory.
It should always have been the case.

However unless he removes mitigation from sentencing too.
Which would open up a massive can of worms.
It's not going to result in a great change.

For me, look at all sentencing.
Only lock up where violence and damage to property crlimes have been committed.

Of course murderers, should be removed from society for life.
Child killers, yes.
However for me, all murders rob people of family, parents, friends and partners.
So clear the prisons of all convicted if non violent crimes..

Then open the prison spaces for all who have committed violent crimes only.
Across the board, from damage to property,assault, abuse, and the taking of any lives.

That's the reforms I'd like to see.

Would I trust the word of this PM on what he says he'd do.
Not a single chance would I.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Let's not forget why Cameron did it. He was under pressure from ukip and hardliners in his party.
As then was May and as is now Johnson. Brexit party is ukip2.
Some political forces have never been happy with the eu membership, especially since it started to involve more than the economy.
Dont think Cameron could have resisted forever. Though its campaign and rules were done wrong.

My point is that this issue has been poisoning the debate at least since the Major government.

UK has never been a fully committed eu member.

Ive always said ukip were tory2 the ageing yuppies from the 80s who love excess and hate Johnny foreigner.
My view is this was a forgone conclusion we were leaving by the internal factions in the conservatives, the referendum was a smokescreen so it appeared to be the will of the people.
Cameron is back after 3yrs silence and he appears to have a score to settle, as always the truth will out.

[Kizzy]

Boris is going to circumvent the law? Bend the rules?

He knows nothing about this country then because that will never be accepted as he well knows justice is at our core we love to see it done.
My guess is he's going to turn into the incredible sulk because he's not getting away with that.

Thinking about the child killer headline, its a shame that only applies to direct killers as if it were indirect all those MPS voting for austerity measures that had 1 in 4 children living below the poverty line starving might have cause to be worried. The infant mortality rate has risen exponentially since the conservatives came to power, to my mind they are culpable.

[bots]

In a democracy you can't cover up the cracks of dissenting voices indefinitely. While new labour were in power there was a decade where those eurosceptic voices were all but silenced. so when the tories got back in with a coalition the eurosceptic voices suddenly became very loud and powerful. Again, if May had not completely fluffed her GE, things would have gone super smooth,but they didn't.

I don't believe Cameron had any choice but to hold a referendum. The simple fact is that 50% of the population have always been against being in the EU. Europe has always been a big issue in the UK, right from the very day we joined.

Tony Blair signed us up to deeper integration with the EU without any vote, that angered a lot of people and it was never forgiven. That set everything on course for where we are now. Prior to that John Major had tried to effectively join the Euro (again without a vote) by aligning the pound with the euro. That experiment lasted all of 3 days, and the "elite" lost staggering amounts of money in those 3 days, again, something that would never be forgotten

The stories have always been negative regarding europe, never positive. Bureaucracy, food mountains, immigration. The positives were always just taken for granted with no fanfare. This has always been the problem. When it came to the referendum, all remain could say was ... well, its the status quo ... isn't life great in the EU where as the leave side could repeat all the negatives built up over 40 years .... and people forget good news, they never forget bad news. So any time a negative story was repeated, those that lived through it thought ... oh yeah ... i remember that ... that was all the EU's fault.

Anyway, long story short. The UK has always been a nation that stood on it's own feet, we were successful that way, it's in our nature. We are naturally untrusting of others, and through the generations that's been a very sensible outlook. Since the war, europe has tried to be peaceful ... and all credit for that, but world powers are always a threat, and the nature of threats change. I personally don't think that going it alone is necessarily a sensible strategy, but then, we don't know what our future holds, the only thing we know is that nothing is ever certain.

So what does all that mean? In the long term we have no idea what will befall us. Making judgements today for how things might be in 50 years is completely pointless. Remaining, leaving with a deal, leaving without a deal, are all very short views. Nothing is set in concrete. In the big scheme of things it's a blip. It may seem like it's a big issue, but whichever route we end up travelling, it is but a small bump in the road, and I wish people would get a grip and admit it.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...we are not going to break the law, we’re going to go around the law...while expecting the population to follow the law...because we are the law and the law wins.../...Judge Johnson...

The Population has to Follow
our Law and Order,


Politics does not need a Biased
POXY
Scottish Judges thinking they can rule us.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by arista

The Population has to Follow
our Law and Order,


Politics does not need a Biased
POXY
Scottish Judges thinking they can rule us.

...Scotland is part of ‘us’, Arista...as is Northern Ireland ...we are only ‘us’ because of that...you’re sounding very elitist, sir...

[bots]

Originally Posted by arista

The Population has to Follow
our Law and Order,


Politics does not need a Biased
POXY
Scottish Judges thinking they can rule us.

Scotland has always had a separate legal system to england and as long as parliament makes laws that affect england and scotland, they have to abide by both those countries legal systems.

Arista, i find your tone to be increasingly offensive, i think you should think a bit more before you commit your posts as you are coming across as an intolerant extremist

[Vanessa]

I just think leaving with a deal is better. But I'm not sure there's enough time for that.

[lime]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

And it seems he wants to put that right,maybe he has realised less police is not a good idea etc, he,imo is no more untrustworthy than any of the others,and whatever names you call him ie, a marvel comic character, does not make me change my mind anyway,there are several names I could call the opposition,but imo it doesn't change a thing.

But Kazanne you fail to understand that we in EU do not want you to change your mind or vote.Why did he accept those cuts and now change his mind?

Maybe he has just realised...Your having a laugh.

He knew it then and he knows it now.

I don't refer to him as a Marvel comic characther as an insult...He refers to himself as one

[lime]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

I just think leaving with a deal is better. But I'm not sure there's enough time for that.

There is no deal to be had.

Ask Arlene.

I wanted a deal but sadly it is not going to happen

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

In a democracy you can't cover up the cracks of dissenting voices indefinitely. While new labour were in power there was a decade where those eurosceptic voices were all but silenced. so when the tories got back in with a coalition the eurosceptic voices suddenly became very loud and powerful. Again, if May had not completely fluffed her GE, things would have gone super smooth,but they didn't.

I don't believe Cameron had any choice but to hold a referendum. The simple fact is that 50% of the population have always been against being in the EU. Europe has always been a big issue in the UK, right from the very day we joined.

Tony Blair signed us up to deeper integration with the EU without any vote, that angered a lot of people and it was never forgiven. That set everything on course for where we are now. Prior to that John Major had tried to effectively join the Euro (again without a vote) by aligning the pound with the euro. That experiment lasted all of 3 days, and the "elite" lost staggering amounts of money in those 3 days, again, something that would never be forgotten

The stories have always been negative regarding europe, never positive. Bureaucracy, food mountains, immigration. The positives were always just taken for granted with no fanfare. This has always been the problem. When it came to the referendum, all remain could say was ... well, its the status quo ... isn't life great in the EU where as the leave side could repeat all the negatives built up over 40 years .... and people forget good news, they never forget bad news. So any time a negative story was repeated, those that lived through it thought ... oh yeah ... i remember that ... that was all the EU's fault.

Anyway, long story short. The UK has always been a nation that stood on it's own feet, we were successful that way, it's in our nature. We are naturally untrusting of others, and through the generations that's been a very sensible outlook. Since the war, europe has tried to be peaceful ... and all credit for that, but world powers are always a threat, and the nature of threats change. I personally don't think that going it alone is necessarily a sensible strategy, but then, we don't know what our future holds, the only thing we know is that nothing is ever certain.

So what does all that mean? In the long term we have no idea what will befall us. Making judgements today for how things might be in 50 years is completely pointless. Remaining, leaving with a deal, leaving without a deal, are all very short views. Nothing is set in concrete. In the big scheme of things it's a blip. It may seem like it's a big issue, but whichever route we end up travelling, it is but a small bump in the road, and I wish people would get a grip and admit it.

Well said ,that's about the long and short of it.