[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I know what a privilege children are. I spent years in a cycle of fertility treatments, failures, heartache before finally having my child after years of trying.

In an ideal world, I would wrap him up in cotton wool, hand deliver him to school and not let him out of my sight. I have an understanding employer, I have never missed a special assembly, sports day, performance etc but I also have to pay the mortgage, put food on the table, clothe him etc etc. During his primary years I have had to rely massively on my widowed dad to assist with school runs as as understanding as my employer is, its not feasible for me to be able to change my hours as there would have to be some kick back somewhere, less money, working in the evenings, weekend working.....and that's my "mum" time.

Yeah, but you've made it work and well done to you for it.

I just can't advocate young children walking alone unless measures are put in place and there would be an age I would say not at all.

There's a fine balance that needs to be struck.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Oh absolutely, I don't think they should be used in school but I am saying logistically I don't know how it will be enforced

Simple, parents keep the phone in a safe place at home, perched for the kids grubby fingers to grab as soon as they come through the door.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

That's her opinion, it's not fact. Is it time for me to yet again to teach the guy old enough to be my dad about the difference between fact and opinion and how to distinguish between the two?

It is fact, schools have computers available to every child when needed at school.

They dont need their phones to learn.

[Beso]

What's the stats for kids being robbed of their phones on the way to and from school?

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by parmnion

What's the stats for kids being robbed of their phones on the way to and from school?

Why don't you go and be silly in Chat & Games?

This is Serious Debates and you're well out of your league.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

Why don't you go and be silly in Chat & Games?

This is Serious Debates and you're well out of your league.

Theres nothing silly about it at all.

Only a silly head wouldnt see what I mean by it..

Imo, mobile phones in the hand of a child going to and from school will actually place them in harm's way a lot more than if they didnt.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

RUDE!

With all due respect you don't know my background.

Text book and experience. My position comes from working practice, not just education and training. You can have both you know and I'm not a university student who has decided one day I want to work in a profession and had no experience actually doing it.

No, what Jo Frost does is teach negative and positive reinforcement which actually works very well..... although not for everyone, but that holistic working/not one size fits all etc. Maybe if more parents adopted it they wouldn't have such spoilt children.

Yes, I know it's not that easy trying to fit work around children. It never will be, but I know lots of people who do it to keep their children safe.

I know you don’t have children, and thus I know your experience and thoughts on how parenting should work - much like Jo Frost’s - are based solely in theory no matter how long you’ve been doing any job. Those are just the facts and doggedly attempting to argue otherwise is quite staggeringly arrogant. Not only that but you’ve also mentioned in other threads (home improvement thread) that you live with your parents so you neither have first hand experience of raising children, nor first hand experience of the juggling act of running a family home whilst parenting, and yet you’re handing out judgement on both?

You might want to reconsider who is being “rude”.

On top of that if you think Jo Frost uses effective techniques or that children “wouldn’t be so spoiled” if more people subscribed to her brand of parenting behaviourism, not only are you simply parroting theory, you’re parroting trash.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I know you don’t have children, and thus I know your experience and thoughts on how parenting should work - much like Jo Frost’s - are based solely in theory no matter how long you’ve been doing any job. Those are just the facts and doggedly attempting to argue otherwise is quite staggeringly arrogant. Not only that but you’ve also mentioned in other threads (home improvement thread) that you live with your parents so you neither have first hand experience of raising children, nor first hand experience of the juggling act of running a family home whilst parenting, and yet you’re handing out judgement on both?

You might want to reconsider who is being “rude”.

On top of that if you think Jo Frost uses effective techniques or that children “wouldn’t be so spoiled” if more people subscribed to her brand of parenting behaviourism, not only are you simply parroting theory, you’re parroting trash.

Every child is different, what works well for one might not for another, different personalities etc

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I know you don’t have children, and thus I know your experience and thoughts on how parenting should work - much like Jo Frost’s - are based solely in theory no matter how long you’ve been doing any job. Those are just the facts and doggedly attempting to argue otherwise is quite staggeringly arrogant. Not only that but you’ve also mentioned in other threads (home improvement thread) that you live with your parents so you neither have first hand experience of raising children, nor first hand experience of the juggling act of running a family home whilst parenting, and yet you’re handing out judgement on both?

You might want to reconsider who is being “rude”.

On top of that if you think Jo Frost uses effective techniques or that children “wouldn’t be so spoiled” if more people subscribed to her brand of parenting behaviourism, not only are you simply parroting theory, you’re parroting trash.

Theory and practice. Think you will find that they go hand in hand. I don't need to have children to understand the difficulties parents face. I provide solutions to them quite regularly and put support in place. I also happen to deal with some very complex cases and child protection

I can still have an opinion. That is what forums are for.

Theory links in with psychology so to have a grasp of it does help. I'm not just parroting theory. You're the one banging on about theory

Parenting isn't a one size fits all and so there isn't a certain way it 'should work' to quote you. There are safe ways though in the context of this thread.

Well I don't think a lot of children would be spoilt if there were consequences to behaviours or go off the rails because there are no consequences. I'm not on about children with disabilities. Completely different.

But you obviously know more than me because you have children.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Every child is different, what works well for one might not for another, different personalities etc

Spot on.

[ThomasC]

And juggling?

You're misinformed and making presumptions

I constantly have to juggle getting numerous children up for school and believe you me, I have a lot less time than you when I'm directing staff and having to deal with incidents.

Logistically, it's not really comparable to a home setting because you have procedures you wouldn't have.

So don't lecture me and think because I don't have children I don't understand or am not entitled to an opinion on it.

[user104658]

I didn't say you're not entitled to an opinion on it. I said you're not entitled to a judgement on it - because your professional experience does not mean you have any idea about the realities of parenting, and thus, you are in no position to be telling people how they should or shouldn't be parenting, lecturing parents that "their child's safety is more important than getting to work on time", telling parents that if their situation isn't ideal they should "just change jobs" and "make it work". Preaching to parents that "having children is a privilege" - from an outside perspective - in a thinly-veiled suggestion that if they can't shift everything around to fit your idea of what they should be doing, they're... what? Getting it wrong? Are undeserving of the privilege? And if not - why patronisingly mention that "it's a privilege" whilst handing out your unrealistic judgements and expectations?

I don't know what your job is but I sincerely, sincerely hope you're not dosing up parents with this pretentious, condescending hot air in person. If you are, please stop it. If people are struggling or asking for advice, by all means offer what you have. If people are being genuinely neglectful or abusive, by all means be a part of sorting that out. But passing judgement over minor things when you have literally zero experience of the realities and nuances of raising children? Nah. I have no time for this, sorry.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I didn't say you're not entitled to an opinion on it. I said you're not entitled to a judgement on it - because your professional experience does not mean you have any idea about the realities of parenting, and thus, you are in no position to be telling people how they should or shouldn't be parenting, lecturing parents that "their child's safety is more important than getting to work on time", telling parents that if their situation isn't ideal they should "just change jobs" and "make it work". Preaching to parents that "having children is a privilege" - from an outside perspective - in a thinly-veiled suggestion that if they can't shift everything around to fit your idea of what they should be doing, they're... what? Getting it wrong? Are undeserving of the privilege? And if not - why patronisingly mention that "it's a privilege" whilst handing out your unrealistic judgements and expectations?

I don't know what your job is but I sincerely, sincerely hope you're not dosing up parents with this pretentious, condescending hot air in person. If you are, please stop it. If people are struggling or asking for advice, by all means offer what you have. If people are being genuinely neglectful or abusive, by all means be a part of sorting that out. But passing judgement over minor things when you have literally zero experience of the realities and nuances of raising children? Nah. I have no time for this, sorry.

Well, yes I stand by that I think any child's safety is more important than getting to time on work. Really? Yes, change of job would probably be better, a lot of parents do it so they can work around their children. If not, as I said, you make it work. Having children is a privilege. A lot of people can't have children. You decide whether you want one or there are other unforeseen reasons. Different debate.

I never said anyone was getting anything wrong. Your words! I expressed my opinion on an age that I feel children should be taken to school and not left to walk ALONE.

I don't think they are unrealistic. All parents make sacrifices and try to do their best. I don't find a child's safety a minor issue. I would find a young person walking to school on there own with no measures in place concerning!

I can pass a judgement. You disagree, that's fine.

Zero experience and just professional?? I was raised with a family member who had extreme emotional behavioural difficulties. I lived it day in, day out. But what, I don't understand the juggles, can't emphasise and understand? I have raised children, not my own, but others neglected and in the care system. I've done a lot of the same things you would do as if they were your own. I've seen children past from pillar to post within the care system, foster families, residential etc.

And realities to posting on a forum are a tad different to dealing with something in a professional matter. Diplomacy and a way of going about it, but I'm child centres so yes it would be raised if I came across a situation where a vunersble child was going to school unaccompanied and look at solutions to that.

I'm glad you have no more time for this conversation because you have unfairly shut down my judgement and got on your high horse because you're a birth Father.

I don't need to justify myself to you. Crack on

[user104658]

There’s a lot of words there but the crux is … still … justification in passing judgement on things you have no personal experience of. I do disagree that you’re in a position to pass judgement, entirely.

If you have a clocking out time, you are not a parent, nor do you know what it is like to be a parent, anywhere even close to the point of being able to pass judgement on parents.

No one was talking about vulnerable children, unless you’re classifying all children as vulnerable. I can think of no job nor position you would have where you would have ANY right to be intervening, passing comment or “finding solutions” in a situation where the child had not already been classed as at risk or vulnerable and with damn good reason.

Maybe I’ve gone off the deep end on this one a little because - granted - I’m a bit tetchy lately but something about this just does not pass the vibe check at all and has properly gotten right on my tits.

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[arista]

Kids will be able to take their phones to the school.
That is essential, for total safety.

The Point next year, first month
is to have a class without Mobile phones in them.
All very logical.

[Ammi]

…there are lots of reasons why parents aren’t able to personally take their children to school…it’s not just something that’s job related….many parents have children at more than one school so aren’t able always able to do all school runs and younger siblings as well can create struggles….yeah, all children are different and family situations are as well so that has to be accommodated in judgement…and when a family needs wrap around care by a team, it’s the whole family, including the parents and it may be decided that walking to school is a good option for a child for whatever reason…

[thesheriff443]

Why can’t the phone just be put on flight mode while in school

Mobile phones dont stop kids getting run over, stabbed abducted murdered/raped
In fact I’d say phones and the internet causes more harm and death to kids than them not having one

[thesheriff443]

To give a real life example a couple of weeks ago a joint friend phoned my brother to say his daughter by an ex partner was being groomed through her phone.

[AnnieK]

I agree that you have to keep a close eye on mobile and internet usage but they are also a good thing. My son is an only one - because of mobile technology, he was able to still see and speak to his friends whilst we were in lockdown etc. I had held off actually getting him a phone (and was planning on not getting one before high school next year) but he was able to cope much better with the forced isolation being able to see and speak to his friends.

I go through his phone every night to ensure there is nothing sinister or out of line going on and I limit his time on there but I know once he goes to high school next September I will feel a whole lot more comfortable giving him a little more freedom if he has a phone on him and I can contact him / him me if needed.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Why can’t the phone just be put on flight mode while in school

Mobile phones dont stop kids getting run over, stabbed abducted murdered/raped
In fact I’d say phones and the internet causes more harm and death to kids than them not having one

6 of 1, half a dozen of the other comes to mind.

Phones can be great, but also cause a lot of problems.

Flight mode would rely on the children. It doesn't matter what policy is in place or if the government ban them, the more you tell someone not to do something, the more they probably will.

I standby that it's the schools who should implement their own policies on mobile phones which is what already happens. Government intervention will have little effect

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

To give a real life example a couple of weeks ago a joint friend phoned my brother to say his daughter by an ex partner was being groomed through her phone.

Unfortunate realities.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…there are lots of reasons why parents aren’t able to personally take their children to school…it’s not just something that’s job related….many parents have children at more than one school so aren’t able always able to do all school runs and younger siblings as well can create struggles….yeah, all children are different and family situations are as well so that has to be accommodated in judgement…and when a family needs wrap around care by a team, it’s the whole family, including the parents and it may be decided that walking to school is a good option for a child for whatever reason…

Yeah I agree and it's all blown out of proportion.

It's so individualistic to the person, but there's an age it just wouldn't be safe at all due to the developmental process. One 13 year old might not have the maturity of another 13 year old as we all progress at different levels.....down to the discretion of the parent within the scope of parental responsibility.

Unfortunately, we live in a world where some parents just don't care for whatever reasons.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

Yeah I agree and it's all blown out of proportion.

It's so individualistic to the person, but there's an age it just wouldn't be safe at all due to the developmental process. One 13 year old might not have the maturity of another 13 year old as we all progress at different levels.....down to the discretion of the parent within the scope of parental responsibility.

Unfortunately, we live in a world where some parents just don't care for whatever reasons.

…in my own experiences also, there are parents who do care but struggle in parenting…maybe their own mental health and well being is poor etc…?…which is why families need care and support at times…and why it’s important to know a whole story, you know…

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…in my own experiences also, there are parents who do care but struggle in parenting…maybe their own mental health and well being is poor etc…?…which is why families need care and support at times…and why it’s important to know a whole story, you know…

Yeah without doubt.

We struggled massively and I’d say that is an understatement.

Not because my parents didn’t care though. To the contrary.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

To give a real life example a couple of weeks ago a joint friend phoned my brother to say his daughter by an ex partner was being groomed through her phone.

While the immediate response to this is often “this is why kids shouldn’t have phones” my stance on it is actually the complete opposite. The tech exists and kids/young people having access to it is inevitable… so I think the younger you start having supervised access, having these conversations, explaining the risks and dangers in a “safe” environment… the safer kids are generally in the long run. If you stop a kid having any access to these things until they’re let’s say 13, which I know many parents do, you’re kind of throwing them in at the deep end totally naive to the absolute plethora of perverts and predators that are out there.

I’ve actually anecdotally seen this is practice already. I’d say we’re perhaps unusually open with our older daughter (12), we have mature discussions with her about all sorts of things, and very frank conversations about the risks of online strangers etc.

Her friend who lives round the corners (she she has known since they were toddlers) has always been very tech restricted until very recently. Couple of weeks ago, this girl is talking to some random, who ends up sending her nudes … she’s only 12 ffs… anyway she called my daughter upset, and my daughter oh-so-tactfully sighed and said, “Go and tell your mum and don’t talk to random people on discord, it was obviously going to be a paedo!!”. We obviously then asked her wtf was going on and made sure the girls mum actually knew.

But yes tl;dr teenagers are going to have online access and I think it’s ESSENTIAL to have them be “internet savvy” as older children before they reach that stage. If they go in knowledgeable they are far, far less likely to be duped or keep secrets.