[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

you certainly are...sadly you don't seem to care about the record 2 million jobs created which pay towards the nhs the welfare state the care the public services etc the highest job creation in Europe put together.....you don't seem to want to acknowledge the rise in nhs investment , the halving of unemployment rate, or the 9000 additional doctors, the 7000 additional nurses, the record apprenticeships etc etc

Am I? I am not blinkered to the fact that these figures have been massaged, I don't believe for a minute 2 million jobs have been created, this does not take into account those on work programmes, apprenticeships, welfare sanctions, further education these are all taken from job seekers it does not follow that they are in work.
The 0hrs minimum wage contracts ensure that those on them don't earn enough to pay tax, so even if they are working it's not contributing anything in fact they have to lean further on the state to top up wages with tax credits.
The only reason the NHS is being bolstered is to make it more attractive to buyers, he pledged £350 million for primary care... nobody even thought to ask him where that is coming from, he is just plucking figures and amounts from the air and somehow never gets pinned down to justify these.
That's why I don't believe a word.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

you certainly are...sadly you don't seem to care about the record 2 million jobs created which pay towards the nhs the welfare state the care the public services etc the highest job creation in Europe put together.....you don't seem to want to acknowledge the rise in nhs investment , the halving of unemployment rate, or the 9000 additional doctors, the 7000 additional nurses, the record apprenticeships etc etc

'The position in the acute sector in particular has deteriorated sharply, with more
than 60 per cent of hospitals in deficit. This is unprecedented, indicating that
financial distress has spread well beyond those hospitals with a history of struggling
to balance their books and is now endemic across the system. This is due to a
combination of the funding squeeze, year-on-year reductions in the prices paid for
treatment (which add up to a cut of nearly 7 per cent in real terms) and the
recruitment of significant numbers of nurses to safeguard quality of care following
the Francis report into the tragic events at Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust.
Faced with a choice between safeguarding quality of care and balancing the books,
it is clear that acute hospitals are choosing the former.
There are more grounds for optimism on the commissioner side – papers for NHS
England’s board meeting in November forecast a surplus of £283 million in the
commissioning budget, mainly as a result of the underspend carried forward from
last year (NHS England 2014a).'

This document shows that the NHS is making as much money as it spends... The document also shows that trusts are funding nurses sometimes at the detriment of other areas to not fall short of imposed measures.

So no.. The government cannot take responsibility for recruitment as how trusts spend their budget is not up to them, by suggesting he is the saviour of the NHS he's lying.


http://www.kingsfund.org.uk/sites/fi...efing-2014.pdf

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by the truth

in saying that I thought Cameron utterly ruined miliband overall...he was just way more positive and backed up more of what he said more than miliband.....he was more optimistic whilst of course avoiding many questions
in the end though I agree with his fundamental principle that its jobs that ultimately pay for everything and free market jobs especially.

No he didn't, he actually did rather badly from what I am hearing although,I agree it was his bes performance so far.
Today a good number of people feel very concerned at his refusal to rule out cuts to child benefit.
Also his failure again to explain where the 10 billion of cuts to welfare are going to hit and who.
A lot of votes may now hang in the balance as to child benefit as to him now.
If he fails to inform before may 7th where he will cut and what, that thought will be in a lot of minds in the polling booths.

All I have had this morning out on the streets is, he is the PM he should have told us far more last night and told us nothing,he must know what he intends to be allowed to be cut.
That is the feeling as to all the leaders as to not getting vital information on a range of issues.

As to the jobs, in 'most' places around the UK, this is not felt as really happening, more people in work are more disgruntled than ever before due to the limited hours they now get for sure.
The supermarket near me, all staff are on 16 hours a week contracts, fine for the person just wanting a job to get some extra money, impossible to sustain someone who needs regualar full time work however.

This is the tell the voters nothing election,however no other party is saying they will make 10 billion pounds of extra cuts to welfare and not spelling out exactly who will be hit and by how much.
The IFS has indicated big losses to the sick and disabled from what has been said,and if this PM does not answer such a vital query before May 7th,he does not deserve the trust of the people.
Somehow I think he won't get it either.

He has dodged debates and had a perfect chance to lay all his cards on the table as to welfare cuts and no cuts to child benefit,he has ruled out any cuts to penioners or their extras, regardless of pensioner wealth.
Yet he could not be in any way honest to tell the voters something he will be presenting as to cuts in welfare a few weeks after the election.

That is deceit,because he must know now exactly what his Chancellor is intending to cut.
That is why despite a good performance,he still failed to do even half of the right thing.

[bots]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

No he didn't, he actually did rather badly from what I am hearing although,I agree it was his bes performance so far.
Today a good number of people feel very concerned at his refusal to rule out cuts to child benefit.
Also his failure again to explain where the 10 billion of cuts to welfare are going to hit and who.
A lot of votes may now hang in the balance as to child benefit as to him now.
If he fails to inform before may 7th where he will cut and what, that thought will be in a lot of minds in the polling booths.

All I have had this morning out on the streets is, he is the PM he should have told us far more last night and told us nothing,he must know what he intends to be allowed to be cut.
That is the feeling as to all the leaders as to not getting vital information on a range of issues.

As to the jobs, in 'most' places around the UK, this is not felt as really happening, more people in work are more disgruntled than ever before due to the limited hours they now get for sure.
The supermarket near me, all staff are on 16 hours a week contracts, fine for the person just wanting a job to get some extra money, impossible to sustain someone who needs regualar full time work however.

This is the tell the voters nothing election,however no other party is saying they will make 10 billion pounds of extra cuts to welfare and not spelling out exactly who will be hit and by how much.
The IFS has indicated big losses to the sick and disabled from what has been said,and if this PM does not answer such a vital query before May 7th,he does not deserve the trust of the people.
Somehow I think he won't get it either.

He has dodged debates and had a perfect chance to lay all his cards on the table as to welfare cuts and no cuts to child benefit,he has ruled out any cuts to penioners or their extras, regardless of pensioner wealth.
Yet he could not be in any way honest to tell the voters something he will be presenting as to cuts in welfare a few weeks after the election.

That is deceit,because he must know now exactly what his Chancellor is intending to cut.
That is why despite a good performance,he still failed to do even half of the right thing.

Can't believe it I'm agreeing with truth It was a very assured performance from David, much more so than Ed. Many people were left speechless by Ed's failure to see spending was out of control in the last labour government. Did you not hear the groans in the audience? I think many would have given labour a 2nd chance thinking that they had learnt from their mistakes, but Ed proved last night that no lessons had been learned. You can tell us how labour supporters are viewing David Cameron till the cows come home, it doesnt alter the fact that conservative supporters are happy with his performance, and from what I can gather, many undecided were happy with his performance too

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Can't believe it I'm agreeing with truth It was a very assured performance from David, much more so than Ed. Many people were left speechless by Ed's failure to see spending was out of control in the last labour government. Did you not hear the groans in the audience? I think many would have given labour a 2nd chance thinking that they had learnt from their mistakes, but Ed proved last night that no lessons had been learned. You can tell us how labour supporters are viewing David Cameron till the cows come home, it doesnt alter the fact that conservative supporters are happy with his performance, and from what I can gather, many undecided were happy with his performance too

What an insulting assumption.
I am not telling you about only what Labour supporters are saying, as a canvasser, I don't need to talk to Labour voters, I am keeping talking to the people who say they are undecided voters.
Who are saying exactly the same today so far as I have heard for weeks now, they are not being told the truth and what they need to know, and they got told nothing new last night from David Cameron either.

So you can come at me from your anti Labour bias all you like, I am talking to ,with a team of canvassers and the candidates,'undecided' voters.
If I want to tell you what Labour supporters are thinking, I do that well enough from my opinion so that throws your dig out the window completely.

We haven't found any of the undecided voters we talked to yesterday or the last 4 days, who feel they got the answers as to child benefit cuts, which will hit voters of all parties by the way if they did them.

We have had communication with over 500 'undecided' voters over the last 4 days,they are the people we are targetting. not Labour voters.
So don't accuse me of only repeating what Labour voters are saying. I say myself with my own views, what Labour stands for, I need no back up.

Let the Conservatives believe that David Cameron did well last night, refusing to spell out the welfare cuts and not ruling out child benefit cuts.
I am relaying that as to the undecided voters,not from Labour voters at all, they learned nothing more from him at all last night,in fact they may have ended up even more concerned at what cuts are coming.
I don't think people are impressed, and they are right not to be, with someone knowing something not pleasant that will be happening, and not informing them properly as to it,when they will be the ones doing it too.
If you admire that,I certainly don't.

As for the groans at Ed Milibands response to the last govt before this one's spending, there were 25% of Conservative voters in that audience.
had I been there I'd have groaned at Cameron's answers.
It wouldn't have proven much however.

In fact the statement from the whole night,I have heard today is Ed Miliband's, from actually even some Conservative voters who are not so hardline,(I have found a good number of Conservative voters who also think the voters should be told what cuts are coming and to what and who),the statement he made as to,he wants to be a PM that under promises but over delivers rather than a PM who over promises and under delivers.

You can get at me all you like but I talk to far more former and present Lib Dem voters, Conservative voters and undecided voters when out canvassing, than I ever do Labour ones.
You gain next to nothing as to new votes from the people who already agree with you,that battle is won.
You need to find out what those not supporting you think, so kindly don't do me the injustice of saying I do something different please and just quote Labour voters,when you have no experience or knowledge of what I actually am doing walking miles in the streets.

Labour voters also are the ones helping us in the main.
I don't need to in any way relay what they are saying.

You don't know me personally, thankfully,so kindly don't make unfounded judements or assumptions from your own agenda as to what I am doing or not doing, thank you.
I will work my hardest to cionvince even one undecided voter Labour is the way forward, so kindly refrain from putting down thew ork I am trying to do from your biased opinion of what I stand.
One thing I do stand for is honesty,and little of that is coming out in this election and none at all from Cameron as to his next round of severe cuts programme.

[bots]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

What an insulting assumption.
I am not telling you about only what Labour supporters are saying, as a canvasser, I don't need to talk to Labour voters, I am keeping talking to the people who say they are undecided voters.
Who are saying exactly the same today so far as I have heard for weeks now, they are not being told the truth and what they need to know, and they got told nothing new last night from David Cameron either.

So you can come at me from your anti Labour bias all you like, I am talking to ,with a team of canvassers and the candidates,'undecided' voters.
If I want to tell you what Labour supporters are thinking, I do that well enough from my opinion so that throws your dig out the window completely.


We haven't found any of the undecided voters we talked to yesterday or the last 4 days, who feel they got the answers as to child benefit cuts, which will hit voters of all parties by the way if they did them.

We have had communication with over 500 'undecided' voters over the last 4 days,they are the people we are targetting. not Labour voters.
So don't accuse me of only repeating what Labour voters are saying. I say myself with my own views, what Labour stands for, I need no back up.

Let the Conservatives believe that David Cameron did well last night, refusing to spell out the welfare cuts and not ruling out child benefit cuts.
I am relaying that as to the undecided voters,not from Labour voters at all, they learned nothing more from him at all last night,in fact they may have ended up even more concerned at what cuts are coming.
I don't think people are impressed, and they are right not to be, with someone knowing something not pleasant that will be happening, and not informing them properly as to it,when they will be the ones doing it too.
If you admire that,I certainly don't.

As for the groans at Ed Milibands response to the last govt before this one's spending, there were 25% of Conservative voters in that audience.
had I been there I'd have groaned at Cameron's answers.
It wouldn't have proven much however.

In fact the statement from the whole night,I have heard today is Ed Miliband's, from actually even some Conservative voters who are not so hardline,(I have found a good number of Conservative voters who also think the voters should be told what cuts are coming and to what and who),the statement he made as to,he wants to be a PM that under promises but over delivers rather than a PM who over promises and under delivers.

You can get at me all you like but I talk to far more former and present Lib Dem voters, Conservative voters and undecided voters when out canvassing, than I ever do Labour ones.
You gain next to nothing as to new votes from the people who already agree with you,that battle is won.
You need to find out what those not supporting you think, so kindly don't do me the injustice of saying I do something different please and just quote Labour voters,when you have no experience or knowledge of what I actually am doing walking miles in the streets.

Labour voters also are the ones helping us in the main.
I don't need to in any way relay what they are saying.

You don't know me personally, thankfully,so kindly don't make unfounded judements or assumptions from your own agenda as to what I am doing or not doing, thank you.
I will work my hardest to cionvince even one undecided voter Labour is the way forward, so kindly refrain from putting down thew ork I am trying to do from your biased opinion of what I stand.
One thing I do stand for is honesty,and little of that is coming out in this election and none at all from Cameron as to his next round of severe cuts programme.

This is a discussion thread, and I'm entitled to express my views as much as you are. But lets call a spade a spade, you don't have a good word for the conservatives, can't see any good in them. Called David Cameron an out and out liar. Enough said really. The vote is on Thursday, and I am now confident that the Conservatives will get sufficient support to form the next government. So, continuing to bad mouth the tories as a labour supporter while saying it comes from neutrals doesn't wash with me.

I would also greatly appreciate it if you would stop personally insulting me, and stick with the context of the debate

[arista]

"dodged debates"


Only One

[Kizzy]

Well that should tell you something, that non answers are not better than an admittance that your party has no fiscal responsibility... especially if you are trying to rebrand your party as the party of fiscal responsibility?
Cameron has pledged 8 billion to the NHS, 450 million for childcare services, to protect child tax credits, to freeze income tax, nat ins and VAT for 5yrs ... how will he do all these things?
What are the 12 billion welfare cuts, where will the axe fall...

[Kizzy]

I'm still in shock, Dimblebore said 'does anyone else have anything else to say about food banks?....no?' ... WTEFF :/
Later they find someone who doesn't want a minimum wage and also wants to keep 0hr contracts, yes it was an employer and as gracious as Ed tried to be and insisted business rates would be fair it wasn't enough... What do people want?
The highest earners have their taxes lowered and the poorest can't even afford to pay tax, it's those in the middle like this who cop for it and then bleat about it :/

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I'm still in shock, Dimblebore said 'does anyone else have anything else to say about food banks?....no?' ... WTEFF :/
Later they find someone who doesn't want a minimum wage and also wants to keep 0hr contracts, yes it was an employer and as gracious as Ed tried to be and insisted business rates would be fair it wasn't enough... What do people want?
The highest earners have their taxes lowered and the poorest can't even afford to pay tax, it's those in the middle like this who cop for it and then bleat about it :/

This is how it is Kizzy, I said yesterday, that in my view I thought the audience should have been all what was termed undecided voters.

I think Cameron got a rough ride because the questions largely came from Labour or even Lib Dem voters.
His supporters were probably not even selected to ask a question or even comment.

As with Miliband, odd how Cameron brought the note along and then the first question from the audience to Miliband was about the note.
I found that really odd too.

As for the Clegg, I do think he sold out as to the coalition but again, he had supporters there but there were really no supportive questioning to him or in fact any of the leaders at all.

I think all 3 did well as to the questioning and no doubt for me this was Cameron's best performance of the campaign so far as I said last night and today too.

For me, however, it should have been undecided voters asking the questions, not supporters already classified as such.
It was lively but still very few 'undecided voters' have likely learned anything at all,no detailed information so not much of a step forward as to the campaign,if any at all.

I do really think for both Cameron and Miliband,they both are just pleased to have got through the main programmes involving them and the studio public largely unscathed.
I think that has been the intention all along.
Give as little away as possible and avoid anything really controversial.

See,I wouldn't have set the questioners in advance either,I would just have chosen people at random to ask a question,it was rather clear more Labour supporters questioned David Cameron, and more Conservative ones questioned Ed Miliband.
Which as you point out, doesn't resolve issues as the answers will never be what that supporter wants to hear.

I have been to a QT audience it is extremely hard to get to ask a question.

Dimbleby says every week the panel have no idea of the questions to be asked,which is nonsense, they are all primed and ready for their answers when the questions come.

I would like to see a political programme that really puts politicians of all parties right on the spot.
Not hijacking them or setting them up, just genuine questions really chosen at random and more to the point from a truly randomly chosen audience too.

[arista]

"on doorsteps"

Not on My Door
All Labour get Abuse
and paper ripped up fast


Feel The Force

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

"on doorsteps"

Not on My Door
All Labour get Abuse
and paper ripped up fast


Feel The Force

I've had that but thankfully rarely.

Most of the time I find people very welcoming, especially the elderly, they seem to like to chat and also like the company.
Whether most of them will even vote for anyone is another matter.
I just do my bit as best as I can.

It's all part of the learning.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by arista

"on doorsteps"

Not on My Door
All Labour get Abuse
and paper ripped up fast


Feel The Force

I tell everyone who comes to my door that I am voting for their party, regardless of who they are. I don't want to be rude to anyone but I find door knocking intrusive personally so the easiest and less rude way to get them to leave quickest is to say I am voting for them.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I tell everyone who comes to my door that I am voting for their party, regardless of who they are. I don't want to be rude to anyone but I find door knocking intrusive personally so the easiest and less rude way to get them to leave quickest is to say I am voting for them.

That is done loads AnnieK.

I haven't found anyone rude really, they just say no thank you,not interested.
Some have stickers up too saying no callers so I pass them by.

Then at times we find, when I say have you any questions,I can be there 10 minutes or more chatting,we have even had cups of tea offered.

The ones I love are the ones who say something like, ''oh it must be election time we never see you people after one election 'till the next''.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

That is done loads AnnieK.

I haven't found anyone rude really, they just say no thank you,not interested.
Some have stickers up too saying no callers so I pass them by.

Then at times we find, when I say have you any questions,I can be there 10 minutes or more chatting,we have even had cups of tea offered.

The ones I love are the ones who say something like, ''oh it must be election time we never see you people after one election 'till the next''.

I'm glad no one is rude to you....I assume it's voluntary so would be pretty awful if you give up your free time and then get abuse.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I'm glad no one is rude to you....I assume it's voluntary so would be pretty awful if you give up your free time and then get abuse.

Yeah,it is voluntary but I love learning about people and what they are thinking.
I go around with a good bunch of people, the actual candidates get more abuse then we do.

Sometimes we cross paths with other party canvassers/leafleters too and that is always usually really friendly too.
I am loving it really.

[arista]

"I've had that but thankfully rarely."


Thats good as you need
a Full Picture

[Kizzy]

I have my voting preference displayed so nobody has bothered to knock

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I have my voting preference displayed so nobody has bothered to knock

Me too, however I am hardly in at present,too busy doing the knocking.

[Kizzy]

Good lad Joey, you keep on knocking my little red fox, the tory hell hounds are hunting you down :/

[Kazanne]

I've had labour ringing my bell today,he was a really nice young guy tbh ,I thought of Joey straight away,lol,was it you Joey?so I listened and told him we are undecided as yet and will make our minds up by Thursday and vote.#awkward

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I've had labour ringing my bell today,he was a really nice young guy tbh ,I thought of Joey straight away,lol,was it you Joey?so I listened and told him we are undecided as yet and will make our minds up by Thursday and vote.#awkward

I doubt it would be me, I always say my name,it is amazing how that helps to open conversation.
I have been all over the place this last week for an hour or so and even fora few hours,I may get there yet.
Hey I never thought of that,I may have actually spoken to some tibb members.

I thought you would have had at the very least a big post in your garden for the Conservatives,

I just want people to vote, even if I disagree with who they are voting for.
The number who say they are undecided is alarming too,from what people say to us.
People are annoyed they are learning little in this election campaign, except as to who may do a deal with who and the voters are, I think anyway, fed up of that,the media to blame for that possibly even more than the politicians.

[Crimson Dynamo]

SNP bossing my town square today again with the candidate there and balloons and things

[smudgie]

We are bombarded with leaflets, letters and even phone calls. Probably as we have such a narrow margin.
When Labour phone up, they always ask for hubby or son, they obviously know I am voting Tory.
It has got that I now tell them not to waste their time ringng us.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by smudgie

We are bombarded with leaflets, letters and even phone calls. Probably as we have such a narrow margin.
When Labour phone up, they always ask for hubby or son, they obviously know I am voting Tory.
It has got that I now tell them not to waste their time ringng us.

I refused to help canvass in your constituency Smudgie,even just for leafleting.
You have a really fantastic and decent MP and I wouldn't work against him.
I know he is a Conservative but if anyone deserves to hang on to his seat he does.