[Sticks]

The truth will find you out

[Sticks]

From Sky News

Meanwhile, bodily fluids - not blood - matching Madeleine McCann's DNA have been found in the car hired by her parents, according to sources.

The sample was taken from the boot, where the spare tyre is kept.

It had an 88% match with the missing four-year-old's DNA, sources said.

Police searching the car also found so much of Madeleine's hair that it could not have been transferred from a blanket or clothes.

It must have come directly from her body, sources said.

The information came from senior sources in the investigation who briefed Portuguese journalists.

Yup, looks like her own parents killed her and tried to play us all for fools

If this post goes over the line in terms of libel, let me know and I will remove it.

[Jackie]

I really do hope they are not resposible for the dissapearance of their daughter maddie all along i do not think theyve any connection to this awfull case but if they are guilty i for one will be sending them a letter along with millions of others.

[Sticks]

It seems that more evidence that they killed Madeline keeps coming to light every day. You have to follow the evidence, not what you would wish.

[bananarama]

The devil will still be in the detail. Let's not have a kangaroo court here.....

[bananarama]

DNA alone is may not be enough for a conviction. The police have to fill a lot of holes in their theory.

1. They need a body.

2. They need to prove that the hire car was not used by an abducter 25 days before the Mc'Cannns hired it and coincidentally the Mc'Canns hired the same car.

3. They need to establish why the Mc'Canns felt the need to move a body that had failed to be found after weeks of searching..A bit of a counter productive thing to risk if searches had drawn a blank

4. They need to establish where the body was for 25 days

5 They need to establish how they removed the body while in the glare of the media and police..

This story is far from cut and dried.....

[Sunny_01]

the evidence "appears" to be mounting BUT lets see

Like Bananrama says we need to be careful with this, there are still an awful lot of unanswered questions out there

[Sticks]

The hair evidence has to be one of the modt condemming pieces of evidence.

Apparently, according to media reports, one of the false sightings in Morroco was from a Brit who lives not far from the McCanns.

So maybe that is how they distracted the media attention whilst the moved the body from where the probably hid it.

[Sticks]

Addendum, sniffer dogs found the scent of death on a beach, possibly due to the body being dumped in the sea, according to media reports.

[Sunny_01]

From www.sky.com/news

'Mystery Object' In Madeleine Case
Updated: 09:03, Wednesday September 12, 2007

The public prosecutor in the Madeleine McCann case is asking for emergency powers to seize a "mystery object", Sky News can reveal.

Gerry and Kate McCannIt is not known what or where the object is.

A Portuguese judge is now deciding whether or not to grant the order.

Sky News Crime Correspondent Martin Brunt said: "The prosecution has asked the judge for an emergency order to give them permission to go and seize it."

Under Portuguese law, a judge's permission would only be needed if the object is in a place "normally off-limits to police", said Sky News' Andrew Wilson.

This could include a church or other place of worship, or a solicitor's office.

Police are planning new searches in Praia da Luz, where Madeleine went missing, including digging around the village church of Nossa Senhora da Luz, according to Portuguese newspapers.


The church in Praia da LuzPolice spokesman Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa refused to confirm or deny the reports.

It is known Kate and Gerry McCann, both 39-year-old doctors, were given a key to the church so they could go and pray for their daughter any time they wanted.

There is no sign yet of any searches being carried out at the church, which still has yellow and green Madeleine ribbons on the pews and altar.

Sky News Online's Kate Sullivan, who flew back from Portugal with the McCanns, said: "It's a small, well-tended church just up from the beach.

"But around the back there's a fenced-off building site area. The ground's been dug up and workmen are laying foundations."


Madeleine vanished on May 3The judge is also sifting through a 1,000-page dossier as Madeleine's parents face an agonising wait to learn if they will be charged over her disappearance.

He has 10 days to consider its contents.

It is not known if prosecutor Jose Cunha de Magalhaes e Meneses is recommending charging Kate and Gerry McCann over their daughter's disappearance.

It is more likely he wants to carry out fresh searches, conduct more interviews, or impose stricter bail conditions.

Mr and Mrs McCann were declared "arguidos", or formal suspects, in the case during police questioning in Portimao last Friday.

They flew out of the country to their home in Rothley, Leicestershire, two days later.

Mr McCann's sister, Philomena McCann, said the handing of the files to the judge changes nothing as far as her family is concerned.

"That was expected - it doesn't change a thing," she said. "We will have to wait and see if they are bringing charges or not."

[Amy]

Originally posted by jackie46
I really do hope they are not resposible for the dissapearance of their daughter maddie all along i do not think theyve any connection to this awfull case but if they are guilty i for one will be sending them a letter along with millions of others.

Many on here dislike me and think I'm a madam... and this will prove to those fans more reason to hate me.. but I've always said that it could have been the parents.

We skirt around the issue that they actually left these kids alone, no matter how far away or how sorry they may feel for leaving them ... they left not one but THREE kids alone. What is more shocking, to me, is that there was babysitting facility on site! Why not use that then?

I always say this.. would you leave your kids on their own at such a young age? No matter how far you are away from them? How do you know they are not killing themselves with things around the apartment?

I could sit for hours and give reasons to why I have always thought they could have done it. I could also sit and give reasons to why i think, in some respects, they may well not.

[Sunny_01]

No Amy you are only saying what many of us said quite forcefully in the early days. I also questioned why they would leave their children unattended, I know I certainly wouldnt.

I have taken family holidays abroad for many years and not once have I left my children in the hotel room while I swan off and enjoy a meal in peace.

There is no reason why people should not suspect them, the evidence is piling up. My hubby has suspected them from very early in the case, he could not understand how they would choose to fly off to meet the pope leaving 2 young children who had already lost their big sister and go meet important people. He felt they have always been hard faced about it and lacking in emotion.

So dont think people are going to jump on you, all you have done is said what many people are already thinking.

[Sunny_01]

Latest on www.sky.com/news

'We Won't Spend Madeleine Cash'
Updated: 12:10, Wednesday September 12, 2007

Kate and Gerry McCann say they will not use cash from the Find Madeleine campaign to fund their legal defence.

Madeleine fund raised over £1mThe news came as trustees of the fund - which has raised more than £1m - were due to hold a special meeting this afternoon.

They will decide whether the money can be used for the couple's legal bills.

The cash was pledged to help find the missing four-year-old, and there are legal questions over whether it can be used to help the parents.

The couple have appointed lawyers after being named as suspects in Madeleine's disappearance in Portugal on May 3.

The Missing Madeleine website says one of the objectives of the fund is to "provide support, including financial assistance, to Madeleine's family."

Esther McVey, a director of the Madeleine Fund, confirmed she and the other five directors are meeting this afternoon.

"What we are discussing is what does 'support' mean," she explained. "This is the only thing on the agenda and this is a special meeting."

[Sunny_01]

I cant believe that they even considered using public money to pay for their defence and that the trustees are meeting to discuss this.

I think that everyone who donated to this trust could ask for the return of their money if it is going to be used in this way.

[gracie24]

It's like when they were going to sue one of the Portuguese papers, the only place they could have got the money from for that was the funds that have been raised.

Surely if they're charged with the murder or accidental murder they should be charged for fraud too for using the public's money for different things.

[Sunny_01]

I agree gracie, but the good thing is according to a statement from a family member they have no plans to use any trust money to fund their defence.

[~Kizwiz~]

I should hope not....... people didnt give money to the cause so they could sue a paper..... thats fraud

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Sticks
The hair evidence has to be one of the modt condemming pieces of evidence.

Apparently, according to media reports, one of the false sightings in Morroco was from a Brit who lives not far from the McCanns.

So maybe that is how they distracted the media attention whilst the moved the body from where the probably hid it.

I doubt it. Hair can come from a secondary source. It also needs to have the roots. Blood or fluids however would be condemming. Assuming it is not as a result of the abductor hiring the car before the Mc'Canns. Prosecuters need to be able to prove that could not be the case.

Haven't seen it mentioned yet on here but the mystery object the portuguese police want is Kate Mc'Canns diary....

[gracie24]

Sky news: Fund will not pay McCann's legal defence costs

[bananarama]

They have decided not to but could legally do so if they wished. Other donations are being offered for the Mc'Canns legal expenses but that would require a seperate fund.

It was stated that at no time have the Mc'Canns asked for legal funding from existing donations.....

[gracie24]

They did say that if the funds were used for the legal defence costs, the McCanns would have to pay what money was used back if they were found guilty.

[Sunny_01]

British Police Involved In Madeleine Case
Updated: 22:31, Wednesday September 12, 2007

British police are reportedly preparing to seize items belonging to Kate and Gerry McCann, Sky's Crime Correspondent Martin Brunt has learned.

Diary thought to hold clues Brunt said the Portuguese judge considering evidence in the case of their missing daughter Madeleine had signed a warrant giving British detectives the right to take a number of items from the couple.

These included Mr McCann's laptop computer and various correspondence, he added, saying that Leicestershire Police officers were likely to attempt to seize the items tomorrow.

Portuguese prosecutors are reported to have asked the judge to sign the warrant because they believe the items could hold vital clues to the disappearance of four-year-old Madeleine.

They are already believed to have a copy of Mrs McCann's private diary after asking the judge to sign a similar order.

Sky's Andrew Wilson said he understood that Judge Pedro Miguel dos Anjos Frias had responded to the prosecutors' request to seize Mrs McCann's diary and that "at least a copy" was now in their hands.

The McCanns' spokesman David Hughes earlier refused to comment on the diary as he left the family house in Rothley, Leicestershire.

He faced the media circus waiting outside the couple's home shortly after the family returned from a trip to a nearby park.

Earlier, it was reported the police wanted to confiscate Madeleine's toys, including her favourite Cuddle Cat.

Mr McCann's sister, Philomena McCann, said the possibility that police might seize the toy was a "disgrace".

"It would be extremely distressing for Kate because she has seen it as a symbol of her daughter since she went missing," she added.

She went on: "Why on earth do they ask for the toys now? Why didn't they think of this before?"

The judge is also sifting through a 4,000-page police dossier as Madeleine's parents face an agonising wait to learn if they will be charged over her disappearance.

He has 10 days to consider the contents - said to be stored in 10 lever arch files.

It is not known if prosecutors are recommending charging the McCanns over their daughter's disappearance.

Lawyers in Portugal say it is more likely he wants to carry out fresh searches, conduct more interviews, or impose stricter bail conditions.

According to Portuguese newspapers police on the case officers are planning new searches in Praia da Luz, from where Madeleine went missing on May 3.

Mr and Mrs McCann were declared "arguidos", or formal suspects, in the case during police questioning in Portimao last Friday.

They flew out of the country to their home in Rothley, Leicestershire, two days later.

[Sticks]

I was wondering if the company that hosts the Madeline website should pull it, in light of the fact that the McCanns are being investigated for killing their daughter and that the website might be an elaborate deception.

Anyone know who does the hosting?

Also Pay Pal should be informed that they might be involved in obtaining money by false pretences. That account should at least be suspended.

The Daily Star's headline "Maddies Toy will Nail Killer" show that the red tops are finally cottoning on that they may have been duped by the McCanns all this time.

Not all of us have been fooled.

[Sticks]

From the Sun

Cops think Kate killed Maddie

From JULIE MOULT
in Praia da Luz
September 13, 2007

COPS in Portugal are confident they have a watertight case against Kate and Gerry McCann to prove their involvement in Maddie’s death.

But what is in the 1,000-page dossier handed to a judge that makes them so convinced?

Here we examine the evidence — some of it ridiculously far-fetched.

Cops find it difficult to understand why Kate and Gerry left their three children alone in an apartment to join friends for dinner.

The tapas restaurant is not within earshot or clear sight of where they sat with pals.

And they chose not to take advantage of a free baby-sitting service offered by respected holiday company Mark Warner, explaining they did not want to leave the youngsters with a stranger.

But perhaps, police believe, Maddie may have already died by this stage.

They allege Kate and Gerry concocted an incredible plan which meant they were prepared to accept criticism for neglecting their kids by leaving them alone, in order for an “abduction” to take place.

Cops are of the opinion there was an accident in their apartment some time after Maddie was last seen alive.

Their theory is that Kate either slapped Maddie and she banged her head and died, or she had a reaction to sedatives dispensed by her GP mum to help her sleep — or even took an overdose of prescription medication left lying around the apartment.

Either way, cops suspect panic set in when they realised they could not revive her.

They say the McCanns were fearful of going to prison in a foreign country, having their other children taken away and losing their livelihoods.

So the parents are said to have hatched the unlikely plan to cover up her death and move the body, possibly with the help of others.

Details of the hour or so they spent dining with their friends are hazy and police say they have never been fully established.


But as far as can be confirmed by the police, Gerry checked on the children at 9.05pm. Next friend Matthew Oldfield left the table at 9.30pm to check on the kids.

Crucially, instead of going into the bedroom Maddie was sharing with two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie, he just listened at the door.

Fifteen minutes later, another friend Jane Tanner, saw a man walking away from the Ocean Club resort carrying a child in pyjamas. The clothing matched those worn by Maddie. Nobody else has come forward to say they too had seen this person.

For weeks, the McCanns enjoyed a close relationship with the police. But by the beginning of August the relationship turned frosty.

That coincides with the time when police began to tap the phone calls and emails between Kate, Gerry and their pals.

Detectives believe they picked up evidence from the surveillance pointing to the McCanns knowing that Maddie was dead.

Around the same time, UK cops brought in forensic teams and sniffer dogs which located areas of blood and bodily fluid in both the apartment and the Renault Scenic rented 25 days after Madeleine went missing.

A few days after reports on the samples came back, Kate and Gerry were quizzed and named as suspects.

Cops say Madeleine’s blood, bodily fluid, and a mass of blonde hair was found in the boot.

They claim there is too much material for it simply to be explained away as having rubbed off on the car from Madeleine’s belongings.

Toxicology reports are also described as significant. This could indicate whether Maddie was sedated — which Kate and Gerry deny.

If police can prove the presence of a sedative, they can also prove the McCanns have lied.

[Sticks]

Latest from the BBC

The inventor of DNA fingerprinting has offered to act as an expert witness in the Madeleine McCann case.
Sir Alec Jeffreys said DNA matches alone did not establish guilt and all Madeleine's genetic characters would be found in at least one family member.

Gerry and Kate McCann, suspects in their daughter's disappearance, are considering commissioning independent tests on a Portuguese hire car.

But the Madeleine's Fund board will not allow money to go on legal expenses.

It has been reported that DNA evidence with a 100% match to Madeleine was found in the car, but this has been played down by Portuguese police.

In an exclusive interview with the BBC's Newsnight programme, Sir Alec said there could be a potential problem in assigning a profile to Madeleine given that all other members of her family would have been in the car.

"DNA testing seeks to establish whether DNA sample A from a crime scene, came or did not come from individual B," he said.

"So if you get a match there's very strong evidence that it did come from B.

"It is then up to investigators, the courts and all the rest of it to work out whether that connection is relevant or not.

"DNA doesn't have the words innocence or guilt in it - that is a legal concept. What it seeks to establish is connections and identifications."

Earlier John McCann said his brother Gerry thought the Portuguese police had "gone up a cul-de-sac".

He told BBC's The One Show that Gerry had said they had "lost track" of what they were doing and urged the police to be straight with them.

"If they have got something that suggests Madeleine really is dead then for goodness sake tell the family who have the strongest feeling for this."

He added that had the police done a better job early on in the investigation then Gerry and Kate would not be suspects now.


Asked if he doubted their innocence at all, he said: "If you know the people, and you look at the whole situation, you look at it and think this is ridiculous."

Both parents deny vehemently any involvement in their four-year-old daughter's disappearance.

The McCann family were on holiday at a resort in Praia da Luz in the Algarve when they reported Madeleine missing from their apartment on 3 May.

They returned to their home in Rothley in Leicestershire at the weekend and are currently waiting for a judge to decide if they face charges.

It is understood the couple are planning their own forensic tests amid suspicion about claims made by detectives in interviews with Kate McCann.

We stress that Gerry and Kate have not asked for these costs to be paid

The McCanns appointed lawyers in Portugal and Britain after being named as formal suspects - but they will not be paid out of money donated by well-wishers.

A statement made by Esther McVey from the board of Madeleine's Fund said payment of legal defence costs would be legally permissible so long as they were repaid in the event of a guilty conviction.

However, she said the fund's directors recognised the spirit in which the generous donations were given and decided not to pay for the McCanns' legal costs.

"We stress that Gerry and Kate have not asked for these costs to be paid," she said.

So far donations totalling £1,036,104.17 have been received for Madeleine's Fund: Leaving No Stone Unturned, according to the official campaign website.