[arista]

Already Next and Tesco has said his amounts are wrong.
And the irony is,
it was New Labour that brought in "over
the amount" of migrant workers in their 13 years.



[Labour has become embroiled in a row
with the supermarket chain Tesco and
clothing retailer Next over the recruitment
of cheap eastern European workers
at the expense of British staff.
Chris Bryant, the shadow
immigration minister, said the party had received
claims from employees that both firms
were "unscrupulous employers" which
had recently favoured foreign workers
over Britons. But his words prompted both
companies to accuse Labour of getting
basic facts wrong. ]


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...oreign-workers





Tony Blair chose not to restrict immigration from Eastern Europe,
saying the availability of cheap labour would boost British businesses

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2bjv5yOmq

[Z]

There's a really nasty attitude towards immigrants in this country; possibly because we're an island nation and are predisposed to be suspicious of people "entering our territory"...

[arista]

Bryant is Live on all media now

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Zee

There's a really nasty attitude towards immigrants in this country; possibly because we're an island nation and are predisposed to be suspicious of people "entering our territory"...

I wouldnt think the constant bleating on about how indigenous brits dont want to work while foreigners do helps matters. When its a load of bollocks.

Or constant (bull****) stories in the press about how much help immigrants get compared to the british born.

[Kizzy]

I think there a loopholes in wage laws in this country need closing, to protect everyone.

[Z]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I wouldnt think the constant bleating on about how indigenous brits dont want to work while foreigners do helps matters. When its a load of bollocks.

Or constant (bull****) stories in the press about how much help immigrants get compared to the british born.

Probably not, but that's the huge problem with what the welfare state has become - plenty of people have taken advantage of the system and now there is a part of the population that will happily take benefits instead of working, which then paints everyone who is dependent on the welfare system in a bad light. Then, naturally, people come to this country for a better quality of life and they discover they can live on benefits instead of working! Marvellous. So then all immigrants get painted in a bad light. Essentially I think the welfare system needs a major reboot to weed out people who take advantage of the system; which is where the problematic attitudes towards immigrants stems from I think. It's fine to get annoyed if you're coming into contact with an immigrant worker who's struggling at their job. You'd be just as frustrated if it was an indigenous person who was struggling at it too. It's the more targeted attitudes that need changing in my opinion. It's nasty to hold negative attitudes towards foreign workers because they're "taking jobs".

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Zee

Probably not, but that's the huge problem with what the welfare state has become - plenty of people have taken advantage of the system and now there is a part of the population that will happily take benefits instead of working, which then paints everyone who is dependent on the welfare system in a bad light. Then, naturally, people come to this country for a better quality of life and they discover they can live on benefits instead of working! Marvellous. So then all immigrants get painted in a bad light. Essentially I think the welfare system needs a major reboot to weed out people who take advantage of the system; which is where the problematic attitudes towards immigrants stems from I think. It's fine to get annoyed if you're coming into contact with an immigrant worker who's struggling at their job. You'd be just as frustrated if it was an indigenous person who was struggling at it too. It's the more targeted attitudes that need changing in my opinion. It's nasty to hold negative attitudes towards foreign workers because they're "taking jobs".

Indeed.

And I honestly dont think the welfare state needs to be changed much..as the only way to change it(to this government anyway) is to give people less..and what you get on JSA is already a pittance in reality, despite the daily star making out its enough for you to be down the pub all day everyday and such

If wages will not go up(which is the obvious answer...), then we need to give people more help when working low paid jobs. At the moment I understand you can earn Ł20 before they take it away from your benefits, pound by pound. That Ł20 would probably be eaten up in travel costs, plus more. Universal credit sees this to be changed to Ł70 you can earn before it affects anything, which is a lot more realistic.

Most people out of work are only out of work for short periods..obviously at the moment people are out of work for longer than they would have been years ago as there are not many jobs around.

Some rules need to be changed around JSA too. At the moment you cant really study or anything or you lose all entitlements. The massive majority on long term unemployment benefits, are on them because they have no qualifications to actually get a job (hell even waiting jobs and stuff need GCSES/experience these days) yet they cant do a college course as they would have nothing to live on while doing the course. Thats ridiculous to me. Absolutely ridiculous. If they have next to no chance of getting a job, then surely its better for them to better their chances..than spend day in day out applying for stuff they will surely be rejected for, just to meet their JSA conditions?!

[Z]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Indeed.

And I honestly dont think the welfare state needs to be changed much..as the only way to change it(to this government anyway) is to give people less..and what you get on JSA is already a pittance in reality, despite the daily star making out its enough for you to be down the pub all day everyday and such

If wages will not go up(which is the obvious answer...), then we need to give people more help when working low paid jobs. At the moment I understand you can earn Ł20 before they take it away from your benefits, pound by pound. That Ł20 would probably be eaten up in travel costs, plus more. Universal credit sees this to be changed to Ł70 you can earn before it affects anything, which is a lot more realistic.

Most people out of work are only out of work for short periods..obviously at the moment people are out of work for longer than they would have been years ago as there are not many jobs around.

Some rules need to be changed around JSA too. At the moment you cant really study or anything or you lose all entitlements. The massive majority on long term unemployment benefits, are on them because they have no qualifications to actually get a job (hell even waiting jobs and stuff need GCSES/experience these days) yet they cant do a college course as they would have nothing to live on while doing the course. Thats ridiculous to me. Absolutely ridiculous. If they have next to no chance of getting a job, then surely its better for them to better their chances..than spend day in day out applying for stuff they will surely be rejected for, just to meet their JSA conditions?!

Yeah there's a poverty trap in the UK and it needs an institutional change to break it. There's a certain point where you can be working an insane number of hours, not be entitled to any supporting benefits and still be earning less than people on maximum benefits which is shocking. Taking money away from people who need it is not the answer. It makes me really angry.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Zee

Yeah there's a poverty trap in the UK and it needs an institutional change to break it. There's a certain point where you can be working an insane number of hours, not be entitled to any supporting benefits and still be earning less than people on maximum benefits which is shocking. Taking money away from people who need it is not the answer. It makes me really angry.

Its part-time work thats the problem I think. The government (any government) love it because it massages the unemployment figures, but realistically, working 10 hours a week or less is no good. Businesses love it because its cheaper to take on two or more part-time workers than a fulltime one. But the actual workers are screwed.

Its good for single parents, or parents where one works fulltime. But at the moment, every job(especially unskilled ones) seems to be 16 hours or less, or a 0 hour contract. 0 hour contracts are just ridiculous IMO.

Since they changed the rules with working tax credit too from 16 hours to 24..its knacked up a lot of people(many who I know) because the companies wont/cant give them the extra hours they need, yet they cant get any help..so are now worse off than they would be if they were unemployed.

[Kizzy]

Why are we looking at benefits here? If companies are finding ways around the minimum wage laws by recruiting staff from agencies set up abroad specifically to find a cheap workforce then who does that benefit?
Not us and not them either as they have to live here.

[Z]

My friend works on a 0 hour contract for a catering company, travelling bar and catering service type thing where if you are working, you and some others are driving a van full of stuff for a function (e.g. a wedding) ranging from food to the marquee tent and you set up and pack up the entire thing. They're paid insane amounts of money and they're on a 0 hour contract because it's easier for the company to call everyone on their books up and ask them short notice if they can do a 12 hour stint at a castle out in the middle of nowhere than it is to regularly have the same person provide the same service. It works well for my friend and everyone that works there because they're all young people (from about 16-24) and are either at school or are students.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Zee

My friend works on a 0 hour contract for a catering company, travelling bar and catering service type thing where if you are working, you and some others are driving a van full of stuff for a function (e.g. a wedding) ranging from food to the marquee tent and you set up and pack up the entire thing. They're paid insane amounts of money and they're on a 0 hour contract because it's easier for the company to call everyone on their books up and ask them short notice if they can do a 12 hour stint at a castle out in the middle of nowhere than it is to regularly have the same person provide the same service. It works well for my friend and everyone that works there because they're all young people (from about 16-24) and are either at school or are students.

Yeah they are good for those with no commitments. But if you have a house and stuff..its no good having no guaranteed work (I know this because of my job )

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Why are we looking at benefits here? If companies are finding ways around the minimum wage laws by recruiting staff from agencies set up abroad specifically to find a cheap workforce then who does that benefit?
Not us and not them either as they have to live here.

The companies. As usual. Who gives a stuff about anyone else. I dont expect anything to be done about this tbh

[Livia]

Why is it not correct to ask the question, why are there so many British people out of work when foreign people come to the country and find jobs? There are lots of people out of work where I live, and yet, there is a high population of Polish people, all integrating and working hard. Why is it seen as unhelpful if I broach that subject? I can almost hear people looking horrified and saying "Shhhhhhhh!".

[Z]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yeah they are good for those with no commitments. But if you have a house and stuff..its no good having no guaranteed work (I know this because of my job )

Yeah I know... just when I saw the outrage at 0 hour contracts I kind of shrugged it off because I know plenty of people who do that and it suits them just fine; whereas if I was a bit older, my social circle would likely be composed mostly of people with financial obligations and families to support so I would view that debate differently.

[Kizzy]

The question is not where are the workers, the question is how much do they earn?
How can anyone earn enough to contribute on minimum wage or less whilst still living in the UK?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

The companies. As usual. Who gives a stuff about anyone else. I dont expect anything to be done about this tbh

Me either but it begs the question if they earn nothing they contribute nothing and spend nothing... So how does our economy work?
So why are the government ok with this practice?

[arista]

Today Bryant had to back track
as all his data was second hand info from only a few locals
was wrong about Tesco and Next

On Ch4News Live now

[Lee.]

I work for next.. There's 50 staff in my store and we're all British.

[Lee.]

Infract that's incorrect.. We have 1 Romanian working for us.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Lee.

I work for next.. There's 50 staff in my store and we're all British.

Yes he got scatty info
not from real numbers.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I wouldnt think the constant bleating on about how indigenous brits dont want to work while foreigners do helps matters. When its a load of bollocks.

Or constant (bull****) stories in the press about how much help immigrants get compared to the british born.

Me too ,if you took any notice of the press you could believe that we NEED immigrant workers ,and they would have you believe they all come here to work ,when this is utter rot, who picked fruit,worked in fields, cleaned office blocks etc before they all arrived en mass ? The British did .... my husband works at Tesco warehouse, 99% of ALL agency workers are immigrants ,with the Slavakians not even paying Uk tax rates ,they pay the tax of their country of origin ,its disgusting, how it will be when our Grandchildren need jobs is a scary thought

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Lee.

Infract that's incorrect.. We have 1 Romanian working for us.

Do you work in the warehouse? This is where immigrants have all the jobs at Tesco

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Do you work in the warehouse? This is where immigrants have all the jobs at Tesco

No, I work in a shop. Beastie who uses this forum works in one of the warehouses though..

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Lee.

No, I work in a shop. Beastie who uses this forum works in one of the warehouses though..

I cannot speak about Next, because I dont know the facts,but Tesco I do know , it is obscene ,they get all the overtime ,the Tesco workers get minimum,my friends son works in Amazon warehouse, he says its the same there ,the English workers are outnumbered