[Withano]

What a ****ing stupid ****

[Withano]

Part of me thinks this was her publicists idea though

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Withano

Part of me thinks this was her publicists idea though

Damn. Changed my mind. Looks like she was just doing a live q&a, and this was one of many questions she answered. She’s just a stupid ****. Unfortunate.

[Amy Jade]

Demi is over anyway but this is a terrible prank. Imagine waking up to a stranger doing that?

Poot > Demi

[montblanc]

poot

[user104658]

Hmmmmm it depends on how well she knows the guy she did it to, to be honest. Like I have friends who I know would find this hilarious, but also friends (and also, myself) who wouldn't like it at all.

If she knew he wouldnt feel personally violated, and he DIDN'T feel personally violated, then I don't really know what the problem is .

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Hmmmmm it depends on how well she knows the guy she did it to, to be honest. Like I have friends who I know would find this hilarious, but also friends (and also, myself) who wouldn't like it at all.

If she knew he wouldnt feel personally violated, and he DIDN'T feel personally violated, then I don't really know what the problem is .

Maybe I just have prudish friends, but I don’t think that ‘I know this guy has a very relaxed view on sexual assualt, so I payed somebody to violate him’ is a great excuse under literally any circumstance ever.

Thats a pretty standard human boundary. Dont pay people to assault others.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Withano

Maybe I just have prudish friends, but I don’t think that ‘I know this guy has a very relaxed view on sexual assualt, so I payed somebody to violate him’ is a great excuse under literally any circumstance ever.

Thats a pretty standard human boundary. Dont pay people to assault others.

It's not a fixed thing, though, and you really have to take interpersonal relationships into account? She might know this guy well enough to know that he'll just find it funny, therefore it's not assault?

I mean surely we can't be saying that there are no blurry definitions when it comes to assault and differing personal relationships. E.g. If my wife grabs my crotch or I hug her from behind and get a cheeky boobie squeeze... That is clearly not sexual assault? But if one of us did that to a stranger or coworker it obviously would be. Unless we're going to go down the route where everyone is supposed to ask for explicit permission every time they touch someone they have a close personal relationship with (I have seen this suggested online; it's ludicrous).

That may go without saying for partners but its a more complicated area for friends. E.g. I had a Uni housemate who was a good friend and he used to love to "bed invade" (jump in bed with housemates half dressed ) and as he knew us / we were all close this couldn't in any way be called assault. If he had gone into the house next door and jumped in with a stranger or vague acquaintance... Yes probably assault.

Or... I've seen lots of groups of female friends who think nothing of grabbing each other's boobs. Not assault. If they jumped the bar and grabbed the barmaids boobs... Yes assault.

I'm struggling to see why it doesn't apply here; if her and the guy she pranked are close enough for her to know almost certainly that he will not feel sexually assaulted, and he DIDN'T feel sexually assaulted, then it isn't sexual assault? Whether or not a person has been assaulted is SURELY up to the discretion of that person?

[Wizard.]

She should have just said that she ran through fields of wheat.

[Headie]

Screaming @ the Warrior promo in her apology

[Maru]

Some people do like these inappropriate pranks though. Even grown adults...

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Hmmmmm it depends on how well she knows the guy she did it to, to be honest. Like I have friends who I know would find this hilarious, but also friends (and also, myself) who wouldn't like it at all.

If she knew he wouldnt feel personally violated, and he DIDN'T feel personally violated, then I don't really know what the problem is .

I think it's fine if that person has accepted you and you know their boundaries.. but touch me without my permission when we don't have that relationship, I would let everyone them and everyone around them know. I cannot stand peer pressure either, especially when someone tries to intimidate you to doing things you don't want to do... I shut that down fast... I really hate being told what to do. That is a massive pet peeve of mine...

I remember in school, the girls had this game where they would slap the ass of the girl(s) who were in the stalls adjacent to them... they had to be told to stop, because we would never know who it was because of the way the stall was laid out... anyway, I thought it was so rich later when they would pick on the introverted girls who were too quiet at the table and ask them if they were lesbians because they wouldn't indulge in the games/chats about other boys... like not being macho enough, but for young girls... I'm like really, you like to slap other girl's asses... also, that's not even your business what their sexuality is... this was in the late 90's. Stupid stupid people.

[Nicky91]

Demi


why do you need to post something that silly you know you would get a negative backlash dummy

[Northern Monkey]

I think in these days of #metoo etc things that may have been half acceptable between friends as a joke years ago just aren’t anymore.
It doesn’t send out the right message these days.Specially not publicly.
Would people be accepting of it if he’d hired someone to grab her by the pussy?
Obviously not.Assault is assault be it on a man or a woman.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

I think in these days of #metoo etc things that may have been half acceptable between friends as a joke years ago just aren’t anymore.
It doesn’t send out the right message these days.Specially not publicly.
Would people be accepting of it if he’d hired someone to grab her by the pussy?
Obviously not.Assault is assault be it on a man or a woman.

..,yeah exactly NM, if it were reversed and he had pranked Demi, would she have felt the same...that it was ‘just a prank’...?...or for ‘pranks’ that involve any physical contact in a sexual way that may be deemed as ok in friendship groups, would they still be deemed as ok if done to partners, sisters, mothers etc..?...hmmmm....

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..,yeah exactly NM, if it were reversed and he had pranked Demi, would she have felt the same...that it was ‘just a prank’...?...or for ‘pranks’ that involve any physical contact in a sexual way that may be deemed as ok in friendship groups, would they still be deemed as ok if done to partners, sisters, mothers etc..?...hmmmm....

Exactly.If he’d posted that he’d hired a man to go and touch her ‘area’ he’d be dragged to his nearest town square and publicly flogged by the Twitteratti.
He’d be a sick,pervy barstuard,a creep,a rapist in the making,he’d lose his job and possibly be arrested.

[user104658]

Again, it's up to each individual to decide what they're OK with in their interpersonal relationships and I find this idea that there should be a "standard" that everyone has to comply with really quite worrying . If two friends are explicitly OK with "extreme pranking" each other in private then that is entirely their own business and there's very little more to say about it than that.

I can agree with the public aspect, in which case, her mistake was tweeting publicly about it instead of keeping it a private prank between friends.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Again, it's up to each individual to decide what they're OK with in their interpersonal relationships and I find this idea that there should be a "standard" that everyone has to comply with really quite worrying . If two friends are explicitly OK with "extreme pranking" each other in private then that is entirely their own business and there's very little more to say about it than that.

I can agree with the public aspect, in which case, her mistake was tweeting publicly about it instead of keeping it a private prank between friends.

Abso - ****ing - lutely Bang On Again, T.S.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Again, it's up to each individual to decide what they're OK with in their interpersonal relationships and I find this idea that there should be a "standard" that everyone has to comply with really quite worrying . If two friends are explicitly OK with "extreme pranking" each other in private then that is entirely their own business and there's very little more to say about it than that.

I can agree with the public aspect, in which case, her mistake was tweeting publicly about it instead of keeping it a private prank between friends.

...it’s not really so much about a ‘standard’ TS...in terms of ‘sexual assault’ ...?...then that sexual assault would be something that someone would have to accuse someone of...which he obviously didn’t or I assume he didn’t...for me there are other aspects to it though, to what she did...he may in his shock for instance...and in her tweet she did say he had ‘freaked out’...have hurt the lady..?...or worse, he may have killed her in what he thought was a threat to his safety...it’s also not just a friendship as such between him...I don’t know what their ‘friend’ status is but she obviously has great trust in him as he’s her bodyguard...and that makes her his employer as well, which also makes me think about it differently...did she ‘abuse her power’ as his employer..?...there are things we may all feel that it’s ok for a friend to do as you say...we make our own boundaries there...but when friends aren’t ‘equal’ in terms of employer and employee...so one having ‘power’ of that being your employer and income etc...it puts a different slant on for me in my thoughts...

[Saph]

do these celebs not think before they tweet twat

[user104658]

I can see where you're coming from with some of that Ammi, especially in regards to the safety of the person she hired, that may have been pretty reckless on her part. Their working relationship etc. is again in my opinion something that shouldn't be assumed; it MIGHT be a power discrepancy, but that can't necessarily be assumed, and again is really down to the individuals involved. If he doesn't feel at the mercy of a power discrepancy, and isn't adjusting or altering his behaviour or reaction based on a power discrepancy... then there is no meaningful power discrepancy. The assumption that there is one again seems like people saying "Well *I personally* think there is one or should be one and therefore there is one". No, none of anyone's business unless the person involved has a problem with it.

Also as a final thought... while I agree that there are other potential problems with her "prank" - it is specifically the "sexual assault" aspect that the Social Media Lynchmob has gotten hung up on with this one, and that is what she's being accused of.

In my opinion, there's something really quite sinister and potentially psychologically dangerous about insisting "You Were Sexually Assaulted!" to someone who in no way feels like they have been sexually assaulted.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I can see where you're coming from with some of that Ammi, especially in regards to the safety of the person she hired, that may have been pretty reckless on her part. Their working relationship etc. is again in my opinion something that shouldn't be assumed; it MIGHT be a power discrepancy, but that can't necessarily be assumed, and again is really down to the individuals involved. If he doesn't feel at the mercy of a power discrepancy, and isn't adjusting or altering his behaviour or reaction based on a power discrepancy... then there is no meaningful power discrepancy. The assumption that there is one again seems like people saying "Well *I personally* think there is one or should be one and therefore there is one". No, none of anyone's business unless the person involved has a problem with it.

Also as a final thought... while I agree that there are other potential problems with her "prank" - it is specifically the "sexual assault" aspect that the Social Media Lynchmob has gotten hung up on with this one, and that is what she's being accused of.

In my opinion, there's something really quite sinister and potentially psychologically dangerous about insisting "You Were Sexually Assaulted!" to someone who in no way feels like they have been sexually assaulted.

...yeah I do see that there was a relationship within work which made her feel as though she could prank him in such a way...I understand that TS...but whatever the relationship/friendship etc was...it doesn’t change the fact that she’s essentially his employer so their not ‘equal status’ people, you know...as in using the comparison you did with regard to your friends and uni days...?...The was ‘equality’ there and with that it’s much easier to ‘make boundaries’..do you see...this is something quite different because no matter what the relationship, she had a position of power over him...I guess much like Rosanne’s Employers did over her...so there was backlash or repercussions ...that’s the power employers have...and in ‘freaking the heck out of him’ as she said, that was Demi’s power...it was quite poor judgement I feel in this particular thing, so much should have been considered in any potential ‘backlash’...potential outcome etc...


......your last bit...well, that’s what we do though, that’s what we all do....hmmm,....’that’s technically sexual abuse’, ‘harassment’, ‘bullying/targeting’ etc...we must all be quite sinister people I reckon......

[Ammi]

...well especially on tweets in response to these kind of things...we never do it on TiBB, oh no....would we ever....nope...

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...yeah I do see that there was a relationship within work which made her feel as though she could prank him in such a way...I understand that TS...but whatever the relationship/friendship etc was...it doesn’t change the fact that she’s essentially his employer so their not ‘equal status’ people, you know...as in using the comparison you did with regard to your friends and uni days...?...The was ‘equality’ there and with that it’s much easier to ‘make boundaries’..do you see...this is something quite different because no matter what the relationship, she had a position of power over him...I guess much like Rosanne’s Employers did over her...so there was backlash or repercussions ...that’s the power employers have...and in ‘freaking the heck out of him’ as she said, that was Demi’s power...it was quite poor judgement I feel in this particular thing, so much should have been considered in any potential ‘backlash’...potential outcome etc...


......your last bit...well, that’s what we do though, that’s what we all do....hmmm,....’that’s technically sexual abuse’, ‘harassment’, ‘bullying/targeting’ etc...we must all be quite sinister people I reckon......

I'd agree if I thought all power relationships worked the same. That's not necessarily true that if someone is in a position over someone else, that it could lead to a hostile workplace... for example, an employer willing to come down to the level of your peers for example, to be "one of the group", that may very well instill a strong sense of comrade-ry (and taking one for the team), for example... like say that employer has to also defend silly remarks or actions made by those same employees in order to make long shifts or relatively difficult work tolerable... then relaxing some of those boundaries have huge benefits... also it builds character, as they can relate on a personal level and humor helps with this tremendously... they may better be able to explain that to upper mgmt their quirks of their teammates... and would probably have an easier time correcting their behavior when they need to re-explain or correct on lines crossed. Actually, if done right, corrections are much easier when you "get" where each person is coming from... rather than strict and professional, 24/7.

Or the field or organization setup may not be your typical. For example, employees for a radio show or a group of comedians who frequently employ humor as part of their daily write-ups... who need to be "on point" when the moment arrives to deliver on those more uniquely expressive charismatic traits... if the boss were too stiff, then they may be too uncomfortable with going outside the box... kind of like if Bill Gates ran a comedy club... it would be very awkward.

Another situation, if that job was a hospital ward. Sometimes pranks help to break up the seriousness of those atmospheres... especially if it's triage. Of course, those people are heavily trained in sensitivity training... so they would better know the lines not to push... in my husband's job, which at times is similar to triage at times (similar, not really one in the same)... there's a lot of dark humor that comes with that work. But it's part of the job... other times, they're expected to be on the straight and narrow, and with all the trauma in those environments and the situations they are exposed to, little gestures or breaks in the seriousness of that environment are a real Godsend... especially if it's an inside joke, one that only your peers would know and get... might be the reason why some people can go further with their jokes as they understand that boundary in a mutual way... and so on.

I don't like black humor and I can see where that might freak someone out... but I totally get it when you're confronted with life & death situations on a daily basis... it's part of the job.

Anyway, we need a Freedom to laugh and not take ourselves so seriously amendment to the constitution... society needs more humor, not less.

[Ammi]

...that’s not really relevant to what I said though, Maru...(..sorry...)...in that she does have a status as his employer, regardless of their friendship...and an employers role does bring ‘power’....she referred to him in her tweet as an employee as well, as her bodyguard...and she also said that ‘he freaked out’...so the ‘prank’ wasn’t something he recognised immediately...the prank involved having someone trespass on and invade his personal space and also have someone, a stranger personally touch him...something most people would absolutely see as a personal threat at the time...with that...?...regardless of their friendship...Demi did leave herself open to a (..possible and potential..)...accusation of sexual abuse in this instance...her ‘prank’ left her vulnerable to that...(...obviously their friendship prevented from those accusations being made but it still doesn’t change that fact...)...and also other charges potentially that would have been beyond the control of Demi or her bodyguard...if he had ‘defended’ his perceived threat and invading and trespassing of his private hotel room by hurting the lady in some way...or possible killing her as the worst case, type thing...because as a bodyguard he presumably would have a weapon....so yeah, very misguided and very silly in its ‘prank’ value...which doesn’t really have any bearing on ‘humour’....


....I guess I could have just said...yeah mess.....because it was a mess of a prank...compared to any equivalent that has been mentioned...so many things to consider with this which aren’t applicable elsewhere...