[Northern Monkey]

This is quite martial arts specific but i think his message translates into more than just that field and into life in general.
I’ve always thought the concept of ‘cultural appropriation’ was ridiculous since i heard it.We should get out of our little boxes and stop worrying about things that don’t matter.
Common sense on these ‘issues’ can come from unexpected places.

Youtube video

Do you think this wise man is right or is ‘cultural appropriation’ a real problem in society?

[montblanc]

it's a social problem

[Marsh.]

I do think it gets out of hand.

Like someone wearing a traditionally Chinese dress or something is silly to be accusing them of cultural appropriation.

But "blacking up" or dressing up as a Geisha etc is problematic and goes beyond "clothes and stuff".

[Toy Soldier]

Unless it's a piss-take it should never be a problem

[GoldHeart]

Tbh it all gets on my nerves this "cultural appropriation" . Usually when people dress up in other cultural dress costume and play their music it's because they genuinely like it , there's nothing offensive and it's also a fashion statement.

If they were being ignorant and rude towards these groups of people then I could understand but that's usually not the case .

I remember hearing about a fashion catwalk with models wearing turbans and people wondered if it was racist .

Are people forgetting turbans were apart of fashion predominantly in the 1920 and onwards with women .

Yeah turbans today are associated with religion mostly but I didn't see anything offensive about these models wearing them, they weren't belittling or mocking any race or religion .

It's definitely gone too far and it's like people can't express themselves .

[Oliver_W]

No-one actually cares about "cultural appropriation", apart from saddos waste their time making angry tweets about other people having fun and imagining they're "activists".

[Marsh.]

Coming from the guy with a blackface avi.

[Oliver_W]

?!

It's the guy from this

Youtube video

[Maru]

This man says a lot of things that occur to me when I read comments or discussions where how partisanship is playing out... I agree with him that our origins don't "own us", nor do they define us as individuals... that was my worldview when I decided to pick up my life @ 19 and throw myself into life in the Northeast... I wanted badly to uproot myself throughout most of my childhood... if I could afford it, I probably would've moved to a foreign country and lived there during my 20's...

There is something to be said about roots though.. and I think those attachments manifest differently in individuals and so the way we practice our customs vary individually... especially in the way that Western culture manifests individually, so our expression cannot be as easily linked to a state of mind.

I used to frequent an expat forum for people who traveled Asia and I enjoyed listening to the stories of those who have seen the world. I grew up in a 99% non-white community myself and absolutely those things have a heavy role over personal expression... but yes, I think that locking yourself (I meant "the group") to a few check boxes is not really realistic, culturally speaking, once we account for individual expression... as we learn and age, we tend to become more specific with how we express our values and individual belief structures... and so I think gestures (like hand movements, etc) and the way we carry ourselves, how we treat hierarchy and even the way we manage conversations becomes a bit more apparent the more we age and we become more sophisticated about relationships and how we express our individual personality traits... part of this is because we develop a stronger understanding of cultural and individual differences... (edit) and so we "adapt" to the world by listening to others and relating back to ourselves those differences... and then those play out in how we express and carry our demeanor...

Even at my age, I'm finding that some things about myself is becoming more or less stationary... and really I think if we're individually aware of this, it makes it much easier to accommodate understand cultural differences... it can lead to increased tolerance and the ability to benefit more from inter-personal conflict if we allow ourselves to be expressive, but also be accommodating to a wider range of expression and becoming more familiar with divergent thinking... we after all must understand the importance of custom, for all individuals, before we can adequately explain to others, much less ourselves, how those things play out in our existence... but once our values are set, it tends to becomes harder to uncheck some boxes... just because once we "root in" so to speak, it's very difficult to move house... would mean having to learn to do basic things all over again... even conversations... but yes, we need a basic understanding of local customs and idiosyncrasies, even if that's not our cup of tea individually, in order to keep relations and communications between different parties running smoothly...

Anyway, the concept of cultural appropriation as bad is a flawed idea. I haven't even begun to form much debate in my mind of how I would argue for or against such a standard and I can already see where we would have problems implementing it...

Western society in general is multimodal. Even if we were to develop a cultural identity that remained consistent across the entire US, for example, our customs would still vary widely given the way that Western philosophy emphasizes individual expression over group identity... so how can we even appropriate something into our own culture, when the culture we're appropriating into doesn't have any solid group structure or standard... given the way that it prizes individual expression over group identity. There is a sense of moral conformity that exists in the West... but even how these rules are established plays out differently individual to individual... we see how these individual differences in perspective complicate our national politics, for example... both our major parties even, its members don't all share the same set of values, or even beliefs... but there's a list of "common" positions... even though in the Republican party for example, there are Classic Liberals, but then there are evangelical conservatives and libertarians... two very different voting blocks...

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

?!

It's the guy from this

Youtube video

Yes. I know who it is. I'm not blind.

[Tom4784]

It definitely exists (see: The Kardashians) but people use it as a stick to beat anyone who shows appreciation for another culture which has an ironic effect of segregating people really.

I remember recently, there was a news story of a white girl who went to prom in a qing pao and it caused a stir on Twitter because a lot of idiots thought it was cultural appropriation but when the story reached China she got overwhelming support and compliments. I can't speak for all of East Asia since I'm only knowledgeable about China and Japan but in those two countries foreigners embracing the local cultures is typically seen as a welcome thing. A lot of the festivals and such that happen in Japan particularly are about celebrating local culture and history and sharing it with different generations and people.

I see cultural appropriation as something related to both profiting from a culture (Again, the Kardashians but also Avril Lavigne when she went all 'Kawaii' and/or belittling it (Again, Avril Lavigne's a good example of this).

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Yes. I know who it is. I'm not blind.

Well I don't think me using a screenshot from a comedy makes it any less stupid when people whinge that the fabric someone is wearing resembles that which is commonly worn elsewhere on the world, or if they have a hairstyle usually associated with other cultures. Why does anyone think that matters?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Well I don't think me using a screenshot from a comedy makes it any less stupid when people whinge that the fabric someone is wearing resembles that which is commonly worn elsewhere on the world, or if they have a hairstyle usually associated with other cultures. Why does anyone think that matters?

No. But using an example of blackface doesn't really help your argument either.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

No. But using an example of blackface doesn't really help your argument either.

Granted, I don't agree with blackface. In the context of the episode it made sense (basically, he was pretending to be the other guy as part of a con), and the intention was to make him look stupid for trying to pull it off rather than to mock black people.

BUT ANYWAY. Blackface is its own thing, quite different to copying someone's hair or clothes. If they happen to make money through it, good for them! Opens the doors for others to do so.

[Marsh.]

I've watched Jeeves and Wooster. I'm not stupid.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I've watched Jeeves and Wooster.

Brilliant innit

[RichardG]

cultural appropriation is a myth invented by privileged westerners

it's such a ridiculous concept, like when everyone on youtube was fuming when jong-in had dreadlocks in the kokobop music video. it. doesn't. matter.

[RichardG]

Youtube video

[Alf]

Just tell them to fook off.

The sort of people that complain about this nonsense, have mental problems.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by RichardG

cultural appropriation is a myth invented by privileged westerners

it's such a ridiculous concept, like when everyone on youtube was fuming when jong-in had dreadlocks in the kokobop music video. it. doesn't. matter.

The dreadlocks argument gets on my nerves , people can have their hair how they please .

Ignorant people don't seem to realise through history all kinds of people from different backgrounds had dreadlocks . People just associate it now with Caribbean & African culture, but it wasn't just them that started with dreadlocks .

[Maru]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

The dreadlocks argument gets on my nerves , people can have their hair how they please .

Ignorant people don't seem to realise through history all kinds of people from different backgrounds had dreadlocks . People just associate it now with Caribbean & African culture, but it wasn't just them that started with dreadlocks .

I like how we're often told, "stereotyping is bad"... but to then say certain dress or mannerisms exclusively belong to certain cultures or ethnic make ups is in itself stereotyping...

So the "solutions" suggested for this are also part of the problem.

[Shaun]

For me it should only ever be a problem if:

a) it's derogatory and dehumanising (see: blackface, doing "slanted eyes", etc.)
b) you're profiting off of someone else's culture and turning something like a native american headpiece into a saleable product or design.

Some do take it too far and go completely against the melting-pot psychology and try to completely segregate everything, though. I'm too tired to get into the "is it ok to sing along to a song that contains the N word" debate (although the answer is yes! so long as you don't just suddenly scream that word with glee)

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Maru

I like how we're often told, "stereotyping is bad"... but to then say certain dress or mannerisms exclusively belong to certain cultures or ethnic make ups is in itself stereotyping...

So the "solutions" suggested for this are also part of the problem.

And surely we should embrace other people's cultures and dress sense, isn't that a compliment . I see no problem with it unless they're mocking or berating these cultures and ethnicities .

Yeah there's alot of stereotyping and it's silly . People can't be pigeon holed to a particular style , there was even a stupid debate about whether a Mexican restaurant (I think it was Mexican food place) should wear sombreros ?,for godsake what's offensive about that .