[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I agree it should be spoken about but some people might not want to air it to the the wider community/guests, but of course you are the boss.

haha I'm certainly not the boss, that's just my opinion on it

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Does everyone believe drugs should be the first point of call or should other therapies be investigated first?

Not a huge fan of drugs for even a headache unless it is a last resort


https://www.mind.org.uk/information-.../#.W2xhkChKiUk

Absolutely, excellent idea for a topic, thank you, Cherie.

Btw, my suggestion of covering drugs isn't me endorsing them as such. It's more to do with the fact that in our present reality that's what is most readily available and that's what doctors prescribe. Psychotherapy is very expensive and its availability on NHS is very limited. Discussing drugs is more of a practical idea of ok, since we take these things, let's see what they're about and how we feel about them.
But your suggestion is very welcome, let's have a look at what else is out there in terms of non-pharmacological approaches.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Absolutely, excellent idea for a topic, thank you, Cherie.

Btw, my suggestion of covering drugs isn't me endorsing them as such. It's more to do with the fact that in our present reality that's what is most readily available and that's what doctors prescribe. Psychotherapy is very expensive and its availability on NHS is very limited. Discussing drugs is more of a practical idea of ok, since we take these things, let's see what they're about and how we feel about them.
But your suggestion is very welcome, let's have a look at what else is out there in terms of non-pharmacological approaches.

I didn't think you were endorsing drugs 2TS, obviously they work very well in certain cases, I think doctors hand them out a little too readily at times maybe, I was reading an article at the weekend how getting involved in crafts can be very good for mental health

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I didn't think you were endorsing drugs 2TS, obviously they work very well in certain cases, I think doctors hand them out a little too readily at times maybe, I was reading an article at the weekend how getting involved in crafts can be very good for mental health

Or excising, running etc is good for depression, thankfully its not something I've ever suffered with (although I did lose my best friend to depression when I was a teenager) but from running and exercising myself, it definitely does have that feel good factor, whatever endorphins are released. Having said that I'm no expert and I'm sure drugs are absolutely necessary sometimes

[Twosugars]

I suppose it's the easiest option to prescribe drugs.
Non-drug therapies are always worth exploring. Of course what is useful at any given stage depends on how severe depression is of course.
Obviously when somebody doesn't have energy to get up or wash themselves they're not likely to go running. But there must be other things that could work, like art or nature.

[Twosugars]

I suppose it's the easiest option to prescribe drugs.
Non-drug therapies are always worth exploring. Of course what is useful at any given stage depends on how severe depression is of course.
Obviously when somebody doesn't have energy to get up or wash themselves they're not likely to go running. But there must be other things that could work, like art or nature.

[Twosugars]

sorry for double post, quick reply is playing tricks today

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

I suppose it's the easiest option to prescribe drugs.
Non-drug therapies are always worth exploring. Of course what is useful at any given stage depends on how severe depression is of course.
Obviously when somebody doesn't have energy to get up or wash themselves they're not likely to go running. But there must be other things that could work, like art or nature.

Yeah of course, it can be hard enough to motivate yourself to get out there when you don't have mental health issues!

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

I suppose it's the easiest option to prescribe drugs.
Non-drug therapies are always worth exploring. Of course what is useful at any given stage depends on how severe depression is of course.
Obviously when somebody doesn't have energy to get up or wash themselves they're not likely to go running. But there must be other things that could work, like art or nature.

Gardening, working with animals can be very therapeutic, paid work or volunteering as it gives a routine and something to get up (as long as the person isn't agoraphobic)

[Twosugars]

Agree. My dog helped me a lot. And the garden.

[Ammi]

..I agree with Niamh/Smithy..(..and also feel for Jay as well....)..in that I do think the public section is the place for this thread and topic..it’s often very hard to acknowledge and talk about mental illness and public but I think it’s a very important thing to do as well for people to say..’yeah I understand the things you feel and I understand your ‘demons’, you know...it’s important for people who suffer with these things to know and realise they’re not alone and how many, many other people feel the same or similar things...

..I also agree with Cherie that medications etc are not necessarily the first point to be looked at because they create a balance that other things may give more self fulfilment and more self worth if explored...so medication may not be required or at least minimalised...but sometimes for some people, medication is the only way also, the only way for that balance depending on the individual...although a same diagnosis can be reached in many specific mental health issues of something like depression for instance...?...it’s also the individual as well and not a one size fits all type of balance that is needed, as in medication because the diagnosis fits the individual as well..which often seems to be the first exploration for some GPs....so yeah explore other ways as well, if it is felt they help in any small or bigger way...


...Twosugars I’m sure you often don’t think so...but you do amazingly, you know...you’re a very mentally strong person and hopefully you’ll realise that as you keep drawing in that strength as you are now..(...even though you don’t realise your strengths, they’re fairly obvious....)...you’re talking about it, you’re helping others is a just one thing...but it’s no small thing for anyone else who relates to you and what you go through, it’s a huge thing for them....

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Does everyone believe drugs should be the first point of call or should other therapies be investigated first?

Not a huge fan of drugs for even a headache unless it is a last resort


https://www.mind.org.uk/information-.../#.W2xhkChKiUk

I have depression, social anxiety and situational agoraphobia. I am sick, I have a chemical imbalance in my brain. If you break your arm then you are going to put a cast on it until it is well enough to use again. I see the pills I take as a sort of cast for the stage of my life that I am going through now. My pills have helped me a lot, I know it takes many people a while to find what works for them, but if a doctor prescribes them, then they should be taken. There is nothing shameful or wrong about taking the prescribed medicine. If you mess with your dosage or whatever then that is the users problem and nothing to do with the medicine.

I also do non drug therapy too, but I had to wait for a long time.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

I have depression, social anxiety and situational agoraphobia. I am sick, I have a chemical imbalance in my brain. If you break your arm then you are going to put a cast on it until it is well enough to use again. I see the pills I take as a sort of cast for the stage of my life that I am going through now. My pills have helped me a lot, I know it takes many people a while to find what works for them, but if a doctor prescribes them, then they should be taken. There is nothing shameful or wrong about taking the prescribed medicine. If you mess with your dosage or whatever then that is the users problem and nothing to do with the medicine.

I also do non drug therapy too, but I had to wait for a long time.

I never said it was shameful to take drugs, and I never intimated that they don't work for some people, but Doctors do hand out drugs a bit too quickly at times, for instance about 15 years ago they used to routinely hand out Ritalin to kids with ADHD when many didn't need it

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-23674235

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I never said it was shameful to take drugs, and I never intimated that they don't work for some people, but Doctors do hand out drugs a bit too quickly at times, for instance about 15 years ago they used to routinely hand out Ritalin to kids with ADHD when many didn't need it

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-23674235

I agree tablets are handed out too quickly. As most people know on here I lost my mum 3 years ago quite suddenly. I struggled massively with not getting my head round it and went to the docs as everyone said that was the best thing to do. I left my appointment 5 minutes later with a prescription for Citalopram when really I needed a referral to bereavement counselling. The tablets regulated my mood yes (after the most horrific 2 weeks where I felt 100% worse). I never dealt with the bereavement and to a degree dont think I have done yet but I took myself off the tablets after 2+ years.

I suffered with anxiety in the past (brought.on by my own actions but that's another story) so whether the doctor looked at my records and thought this was related I don't know but what I had was massive sadness and unreleased grief, not depression and I think had I spoken with a counsellor I wouldn't have needed tablets.

[smudgie]

I love my happy pills.
I can sit and daydream I am running up that hill.

[RichardG]

There is a difference between clinical anxiety and depression, and low mood. The former will most likely need medical treatments, the later most likely will not. But I guess with the NHS being so useless and waiting times for any type of general therapy services or whatever often being over a year, maybe that’s why doctors just go straight to medical options? I don’t know.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I agree tablets are handed out too quickly. As most people know on here I lost my mum 3 years ago quite suddenly. I struggled massively with not getting my head round it and went to the docs as everyone said that was the best thing to do. I left my appointment 5 minutes later with a prescription for Citalopram when really I needed a referral to bereavement counselling. The tablets regulated my mood yes (after the most horrific 2 weeks where I felt 100% worse). I never dealt with the bereavement and to a degree dont think I have done yet but I took myself off the tablets after 2+ years.

I suffered with anxiety in the past (brought.on by my own actions but that's another story) so whether the doctor looked at my records and thought this was related I don't know but what I had was massive sadness and unreleased grief, not depression and I think had I spoken with a counsellor I wouldn't have needed tablets.

In your case Annie I think it is almost a dereliction of duty on behalf of the GP to just hand out pills without even considering how the loss of your Mum was affecting you, yes he/she might have scanned the notes but given the circumstances not to refer you to a counsellor was really poor decision making, not wishing to be cynical but GPs are often paid by drug companies to push certain drugs as well.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Does everyone believe drugs should be the first point of call or should other therapies be investigated first?

Not a huge fan of drugs for even a headache unless it is a last resort


https://www.mind.org.uk/information-.../#.W2xhkChKiUk

I agree that drugs are handed out too quickly and are not always the appropriate first choice. Alternative therapies are unfortunately more expensive and less available, though... It's improving, but the waiting lists are still massive.

Also even then there's often an immediate jump to CBT instead of talking therapies to explore the root causes, which is again not always the best thing. CBT has it's place and the strategies are very useful in many situations, but it shouldn't be the "go to", especially when if the problems being experiences are linked to unresolved past trauma (which people don't even often realise themselves until it's explored).

But yes, in general I think GPs are far too quick to dish out SSRI's on the basis of... Very little. There's also an emerging culture of them being seen as very "normal" and having few or even zero side effects which is untrue. There can be physical side effects up to and including seizures and organ damage, and there can be an unforeseen detrimental effect on mental health, a huge one being that if people who are genuinely unhappy or have huge unresolved problems suddenly gain clarity of thought, it can trigger suicidal ideation where there previously was no compulsion to self harm. Basically, people can have spent years slowly destroying their life without much perspective on that, and then suddenly "see through the fog" and realise that they have little or nothing left... Which is a dangerous position to be in.

On balance, I personally believe that these drugs should NOT be available on a GO subscription, and should be restricted to specialists... With the whole picture being understood before drugs are offered. Again though, availability and waiting lists are the problem, which is why we have under-qualified (in mental health) GPs making psychological assessments that they are not trained to make, and handing out prescriptions like jelly beans.


All of that said, I can't say I'm with you on the second part. I quite freely pop paracetamol, ibuprofen and the occasional cheeky co-codamol for headaches .

I also used to steal my mum's 30mg codydramol for hangovers, which probably wasn't the most sensible idea ...

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I agree tablets are handed out too quickly. As most people know on here I lost my mum 3 years ago quite suddenly. I struggled massively with not getting my head round it and went to the docs as everyone said that was the best thing to do. I left my appointment 5 minutes later with a prescription for Citalopram when really I needed a referral to bereavement counselling.

That's verging on actual malpractice if you ask me... Giving mood altering drugs when someone is recently bereaved can lead to not properly processing / grieving, and that can manifest as serious generalised anxiety without warning even years later. If someone is VERY distressed something short term might be needed, but not long term medication for clinical depression. Grief isn't a chemical imbalance... Doctors need to help people to work through it, not block it out.

[Niamh.]

Yeah I agree TS, grief over a death or even a relationship ending has to be gone through to come out the other side, you can't go around grief with pills

[glibberglobber]

Can I just ask why this is a sticky in SD&N and not Health, beauty and fashion?

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by glibberglobber

Can I just ask why this is a sticky in SD&N and not Health, beauty and fashion?

Does it really matter?

Some people have apposing views about medication or alternative therapies as such it inspired a debate

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by glibberglobber

Can I just ask why this is a sticky in SD&N and not Health, beauty and fashion?

Elephant in the room;

It's because no one uses those subforums, and SD&N (hard as it sometimes can be to believe) is where the more... umm... thoughtful ... side of TiBB lives.

It's like the chat forum, except for when you want to write posts with more than one sentence, and that involve more than 3 seconds of thought. I guess.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Elephant in the room;

It's because no one uses those subforums, and SD&N (hard as it sometimes can be to believe) is where the more... umm... thoughtful ... side of TiBB lives.

It's like the chat forum, except for when you want to write posts with more than one sentence, and that involve more than 3 seconds of thought. I guess.

A kind of 'if Carling did forums' scenario

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

A kind of 'if Carling did forums' scenario

I don't know if I'd go that far Cherie . Maybe "if Carling did TiBB Subforums"

Although to be honest, the "Tech & Games" and "TV" sections are the cream of the TiBB crop. They're like that story about WW1 where the British and German soldiers stopped fighting and left the trenches to play football for a day. SD and Chat troops just chatting about films and telly and stuff peacefully