[Sticks]

They did state that this fund was to support them in their search and as they were on unpaid leave two mortgage payments were made. This stopped when they were made formal suspects. The fund, surprise, surprise is not technically a charity.

In my view when they were made arguidos the ISP should have pulled the plug on the website and paypal should have pulled their account, on the grounds they might be aiding and abetting a fraud on the general public.

I suppose if someone had a mind to, they could get in touch with those organisations to demand they do such actions. So far I have held back from doing that

[Sunny_01]

Detectives following up new sighting say they are sure they will find Madeline.

Full Story

[J.C.]

^This agency sounds very positive, and the longer this goes on the more I feel inclined to think it may have been an abduction to order.

After everything that has happened, it would really make my year if she is found alive.

[Sunny_01]

Mine as well J.C critical as I have been of her parents I would like nothing more than for that little girl to be found alive.

[Sticks]

Sorry that is not going to happen

New forensic tests appear to support the theory that Kate and Gerry McCann could have been involved in Madeleine's disappearance, it has emerged.

Sources say the results from a second batch of testing, conducted at a laboratory in Birmingham, have been passed to Portuguese detectives via Leicestershire police.

These findings are alleged to include the discovery of the girl's DNA - believed to have been obtained from Madeleine's bodily fluids and hair - in the McCanns' hire car which was rented 25 days after the girl went missing.

Traces of Madeleine's blood in her parents' holiday apartment are also said to have been found.

Tests on the bodily fluids found in the hire car are understood to show that they came from a corpse and that the body was moved.

Sources also indicate that the volume of material found is too great for it to have been transferred via Madeleine's toys or clothing or from her parents' possessions.

It is also believed that the tests have produced no evidence to indicate the involvement of any other person.

This looks like a slam dunk

It looks like she is dead and her parents killed her

So when are they going to be arrested!!!


Edit: Amend a statement for potential legal reasons

[J.C.]

^I’m sure most of us are confident in the testing being carried out by the British police. If we are, then I would also like to have the same confidence in believing that they would not leak this information to the press.

An anonymous source in such a serious matter is a big worry for me and a big reason why I am debating press integrity in another thread.

Many of the comments made under the article seem to share my concern.

I accept that there are many unanswered questions in this whole saga but even if the source were accurate it wouldn’t necessarily be proof that the parents or a parent were responsible. There were other family members who quite possibly had access to the flat and the car.

I don’t know the truth and obviously hope you are wrong.
I feel that if there is concrete evidence against them it can’t be long now before we hear about it one way or the other, and officially.

[Sticks]

Maddie: She was Killed

Daily Star

MADELEINE McCann’s parents are to face a grilling by British police over sensational new evidence.

The findings allegedly prove that the three-year-old did die in the family’s holiday apartment.


And they also reportedly back up the police theory that her body was moved in a car her parents hired 24 days later.


The findings were last night being studied by Paulo Rebelo, the new police chief on the case. And the new DNA results will come as a total shock to Kate and Gerry McCann, both 39.


They had hoped reports their daughter was smuggled into Morocco would shift the finger of blame away from the family.


According to leaked details of the new report:


TRACES of Madeleine’s blood are said to have been found in the apartment.


TESTS on body fluids found in the spare tyre well in the boot of the hire car show they came from a corpse.


THE body had been moved.


HAIR found in the car belonged to Madeleine. Sources say the volume of material found is too great for it to have been transferred via Maddie’s toys or clothing.


So far, forensic experts have found no evidence to indicate any other person was involved. They have not discovered any forensic trace of a possible abductor in the McCanns’ apartment in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz.


Sources say the results from a second batch of tests – conducted at the Forensic Science Service’s laboratory in Birmingham – were passed to Portuguese detectives via Leicestershire Police.


A senior detective said last night that Rebelo is “certain” to want to re-question Madeleine’s GP mum Kate and heart consultant dad Gerry, who remain official suspects. But the grilling would almost certainly be carried out in England by Brit detectives.


He said: “Portuguese officers may be allowed to observe the interviews, but they will not have the jurisdiction to conduct them in England.

“English detectives will be free to carry out interviews on their terms.


“They will focus on extracting precise details in a bid to expose any inconsistencies in the couple’s accounts – no matter how minute.


“These interviews will be tape- recorded and videoed so their respon-ses can be painstakingly examined. If they are not being truthful that would be almost certain to emerge.’’


Two months ago police accused Kate of accidentally killing her daughter in the apartment after giving her sedatives to help her sleep while she and her husband dined with pals in a nearby tapas bar.


They alleged the couple then disposed of the body in a bid to mask their negligence.


Police believe they initially stashed the corpse in a temporary hideaway before moving it to its final resting place in the hire car.


Police began to suspect the couple in July after British sniffer dogs trained to detect death and blood reacted inside the apartment and the car.


The McCanns, from Rothley, Leics, deny any involvement in their daughter’s disappearance and insist she was abducted.


Their spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: “This is yet another unsourced, unsubstantiated and possibly inaccurate report and as such we simply won’t comment on it.


“Kate and Gerry are entirely innocent and therefore are unconcerned about reports in the media because they know the truth.”

So much for the Moroccan wild goose chase for a fictitious abductor

[bananarama]

The Daily Star. That says it all.........

[XxShortyxX]

They found he hair in the car??? So she had never been in the car before, only when they killed her and put her in the car. They are so stupid, anyone with half a brain cell can see how much Madeline's parents care about her, you can see the pain they are going through.

Stupid papers, stupid police.

[Sticks]

Originally posted by bananarama
The Daily Star. That says it all.........

And various other newspapers

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Sticks

And various other newspapers

Also the Portuguese police. Perhaps most of all.

[Sticks]

Who is more credible, the Proper police authorities, backed up by the finest in British forensics and highly accurate and experienced cadaver dogs or two people suspected of killing their own daughter?

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Sticks
Who is more credible, the Proper police authorities, backed up by the finest in British forensics and highly accurate and experienced cadaver dogs or two people suspected of killing their own daughter?

The portuguese police would deserve the title "proper authorities" if they behaved that way. They don't as you well know. Proper authorities do not leak information enough to smear but not arrest. while at the same time claim to have a policy of secrecy. Secrecy that has at the beginning hampered the enquiry throughout.

Mc'Canns guilty or innocent the portuguese police are clearly guilty of incompetence and internal corruption leaking info that will devalue the credibility of any possible future prosecution.....

With world wide smearing of the suspects how are they going to find jury members than can be trusted to be impartial and listen to evidence minus all the newspaper speculation and misinformation.

If anyone should be arrested at this time it is the portuguese investigators. As for British involvement....British cops were not on the scene at the most vital time. That counts for a lot considering the poprtuguese happy sloppy ways of investigating.....All evidence found by the portuguese authority will lack credibilty as it has clearly been corrupted by lack of intelligence when conducting the initial investigations....

[Sticks]

I saw this petition on the internet.

I have not signed it...

....yet

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by Sticks
I saw this petition on the internet.

I have not signed it...

....yet

I have, as soon as I read about salaries

the money was supposed to be used to find the child, and publicise the campaign to find the child, and highlight other missing children .

What we now get to discover are mortgage payments and salaries. Though who is salaried is not specified.

But clearly the "fund" now admits that someone is making a living off this.

Of course it is NOT a registered charity, as I said when the thing was set up, it not being a registered charity means you have no comeback if the money is not used for what you were led to believe it would be.

When you donate to a charity, under British law you can have a reasonable expectation of where all or part of that money will go and/or what it will be used for, minus any expenses and running costs incurred.

This is not a charity, and under British law when you donate to a fund such as this, without charitable status as it is not registered as such, you have no legal right to expect a service to be carried out from your donation.

So mortgages and salaries it is.

very savvy, and disgraceful ....IMO

[cgimusic]

Originally posted by spacebandit

I have, as soon as I read about salaries

the money was supposed to be used to find the child, and publicise the campaign to find the child, and highlight other missing children .

What we now get to discover are mortgage payments and salaries. Though who is salaried is not specified.

But clearly the "fund" now admits that someone is making a living off this.

Of course it is NOT a registered charity, as I said when the thing was set up, it not being a registered charity means you have no comeback if the money is not used for what you were led to believe it would be.

When you donate to a charity, under British law you can have a reasonable expectation of where all or part of that money will go and/or what it will be used for, minus any expenses and running costs incurred.

This is not a charity, and under British law when you donate to a fund such as this, without charitable status as it is not registered as such, you have no legal right to expect a service to be carried out from your donation.

So mortgages and salaries it is.

very savvy, and disgraceful ....IMO

I agree as well. The money should be put towards finding other missing children. It shouldn't just be a prise draw where if your kid gets snatched you get Ł1M.

[Sunny_01]

Action against McCanns for child neglect has been lodged in the form of a private prosecution by a former MP

Full Story

Also today one of the women dining with the McCanns has started to talk openly today after accusations that she had lied about seeing Madeline carried off.

Story here

[spacebandit]

Wonder if we can expect panorama to be an objective look at all facets of the case ?,

With real and pertinent questions asked

Or just another sleight of hand showcase that may as well have been directed by one of the un-named people who are being payed a salary from the fund ?

[J.C.]

I don't think we should get too carried away about this fund, it's not like they have really hit the jackpot. A few thousand would go a long way if they are innocent and they could be sued for it if there is a different outcome.

I was concerned about the brief clip I saw of this interview as the lady kept shaking her head(no) while saying yes!

Imo the private action by the MP is premature and goes over the heads of the police who should know more about the case. I think he is probably more concerned about 'why' the children were left alone and presumably he is working on the basis that the parents are guilty of something much worse and that if they are going to claim an abduction took place then they must also find a time when they and other family members were separated from the children.

Personally, I feel there is so much confusion in this case that they deserve support until some concrete evidence is put forward. Furthermore if the investigating police are so sure about the parent's involvement then why can't they release the other suspect from his suspect status.

[Sticks]

This guy was not a former MP, but a former parliamentary candidate for UKIP

Anyway, the McCanns are soooo hated in Portugal, if the McCanns were put on trial, I suspect, which ever jury they pick it would only take them 5 seconds to all find them guilty. (The time taken to shout "guilty as charged" in unison) It does not matter what evidence they present, there is not a jury that would aquit them.

Then case closed and no more innocent families of blonde girls will be bothered.

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by J.C.
I don't think we should get too carried away about this fund, it's not like they have really hit the jackpot. A few thousand would go a long way if they are innocent and they could be sued for it if there is a different outcome.

I was concerned about the brief clip I saw of this interview as the lady kept shaking her head(no) while saying yes!

Imo the private action by the MP is premature and goes over the heads of the police who should know more about the case. I think he is probably more concerned about 'why' the children were left alone

he is not alone, I think his actions are brought about from questions many people want to know the answers to...and a good number of people here have asked them.

Basically if a working class / council estate / low income couple with three young children left them alone and went to the pub for a few hours, then called into the chippy on the way home then found out one of thie children missing what would happen ?

Firstly social services would be all over them like a bad rash despite their "anguish" social services would be claiming the saftey of the other children is paramount, chances are the other children would be taken from them and they would have to go to court to get supervised visitation - then if they are innocent of any suspicion it usually takes around two years to get custody back via a court.

Those of us old enough to have seen similar cases reported on the news in the past can easily identify the pattern, but not in this case.

In the McCanns case - even the simplest questions are not being asked, the commonest statistic about child murder is ignored and they get a free ride from the British media that the above mentioned low income couple would not get because they would be too busy cricifying them for leaving the children alone, but it would seem that a professional couple able to afford holidays abroad get the kid gloves treatment from the authorities, unlike poor old low income family who would long ago have been branded child murderewrs by the self same media currently falling over themselves to curry favour with the McCanns. They have to do that to guarantee a place in the bidding war for the story that will follow

As for the fund, it is not a "few thousand" - it is now on its way to its second MILLION, it is not a registered charity and has just admitted that it pays mortgages and salaries from a fund set up to find the child, publicise the case and publicise other such cases.

Its a cash cow, without the checks and balances under British law enforced upon a charity.

Theres money in them thar shallow graves

[J.C.]

Originally posted by spacebandit

he is not alone, I think his actions are brought about from questions many people want to know the answers to...and a good number of people here have asked them.

Basically if a working class / council estate / low income couple with three young children left them alone and went to the pub for a few hours, then called into the chippy on the way home then found out one of thie children missing what would happen ?

Firstly social services would be all over them like a bad rash despite their "anguish" social services would be claiming the saftey of the other children is paramount, chances are the other children would be taken from them and they would have to go to court to get supervised visitation - then if they are innocent of any suspicion it usually takes around two years to get custody back via a court.

Those of us old enough to have seen similar cases reported on the news in the past can easily identify the pattern, but not in this case.

In the McCanns case - even the simplest questions are not being asked, the commonest statistic about child murder is ignored and they get a free ride from the British media that the above mentioned low income couple would not get because they would be too busy cricifying them for leaving the children alone, but it would seem that a professional couple able to afford holidays abroad get the kid gloves treatment from the authorities, unlike poor old low income family who would long ago have been branded child murderewrs by the self same media currently falling over themselves to curry favour with the McCanns. They have to do that to guarantee a place in the bidding war for the story that will follow

As for the fund, it is not a "few thousand" - it is now on its way to its second MILLION, it is not a registered charity and has just admitted that it pays mortgages and salaries from a fund set up to find the child, publicise the case and publicise other such cases.

Its a cash cow, without the checks and balances under British law enforced upon a charity.

Theres money in them thar shallow graves

In respect of the fund , I was referring to the amounts that the Mcanns had received personally for the two or three mortgage payments etc, which surely is only a few thousand.
Some of the remainder is being used to track down their daughter through detective agencies and publicity etc which is only a bad thing in the eyes of those who don’t consider a person or persons innocent until proven guilty.

I completely agree about the fact that they probably did break UK law by leaving the children alone, I merely think that it is premature to push the Mcanns into a courtroom at this moment in time, whilst there is still a live search in progress for their missing child.

In the case of low income or high income families leaving their children unattended in the UK, I believe social services would rightly be all over them like a rash in both instances. The difference here is not because they are a middle or high income family but surely more about the fact that it occurred in another country where the police, perhaps foolishly, stated early on that they did not blame the parents for leaving the children alone, and the sad fact that a girl has possibly been abducted.

It would not surprise me if social services have raised the relevant issues with the parents already but haven’t taken legal action themselves as yet because they may feel that the parents (rich or poor) are under enough pressure at this moment and will await the outcome of the police investigation as indeed, I think we all should.

[Sticks]

Social services have already spoken to them and did not consider any further action by them was needed.

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by Sticks
Social services have already spoken to them and did not consider any further action by them was needed.

Which raises the "class" issue when it comes to social services intervention.

[J.C.]

Originally posted by spacebandit

Which raises the "class" issue when it comes to social services intervention.

Possibly, but it raises many other issues too, none less than the fact that the law seems a bit wishy washy in this area and perhaps should be reviewed. I copied this from another board;

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This from the Churches Child Protetion Advice Service
"Is it against the law to leave children unattended at home?
No, it's not against the law to leave a child unattended at any age but it is against the law to leave children in circumstances that put them in any kind of danger. So, for example, leaving a young child alone for several hours could place them in physical danger and emotional harm through loneliness and fear. Someone under 18 is legally a child and though you can leave children younger than that alone, you must be sure that they can cope adequately and that you have guarded against all possible risks. Young children should never be left alone."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So assuming this is correct then the law should surely state that it is illegal to leave children of a certain age unattended as they are clearly always at risk on their own. This may have been one of the issues that social services have had with the Mcanns.

Edit;
Just now on the BBC news the detective agency are claiming that they are very close to tracking down the kidnapper, and that a very reliable source saw Madeline two days after the event.

I know we have heard this type of thing before but this agency does have serious credentials, and we can at least hope.