[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...Ricky Gervais is speaking out about this individual ....and being labelled a transphobe by some for doing so...


https://kiwifarms.net/threads/ricky-...twitter.58756/

Here's a Twitter link to the Ricky Gervais comments (I don't know what Kiwi farm is either )

https://twitter.com/rickygervais/sta...80570755686400

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Perhaps it hasn't been picked up because they know that it won't simply be taken as a story about a seriously messed up individual, but as "Gotcha" ammunition for a wider campaign, and there will be associated backlash. Though I suppose it's odd in the sense that the MSM isn't usually bothered about spoonfeeding people gunpowder.

Or maybe they're afraid of being sued themselves, I don't think newspapers are that concerned about anything other than cash tbh

[Ammi]

...with some of those women, it involved going to a stranger’s home....and that’s something which he’s not considering or allowing for ...or even trying to reassure ...but there is a safety element as well...he just seems to be dismissing everything said as transphobia...and off to court we go...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Here's a Twitter link to the Ricky Gervais comments (I don't know what Kiwi farm is either )

https://twitter.com/rickygervais/sta...80570755686400

...the thing is though which was the point of my post...*side-eyes TS and glares*.....Ricky Gervais is commenting on it and on the radio station, it said it had been covered in National Media...so it is becoming more talked about..?...

...I have to say though at the risk of being shouted at.....I am really disturbed by the content which involves female children which is very predatory...and the trans thing seems to be quashing that a little...

[Ammi]

...it’s a farm for homeless kiwis apparently...I sent a donation earlier...

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...it’s a farm for homeless kiwis apparently...I sent a donation earlier...

Don't you love kiwis so cute

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

"A Gotcha Moment" has no place in any rational debate or assessment of a situation though Kizzy. How many "gotcha moments" do Brexiteers and other anti-immigration advocates have, otherwise? Every terrorist incident involving an immigrant in the UK. Every drug crime committed by a Mexican immigrant in the US. "Gotcha gotcha gotcha!!" all day long from Trump, Hopkins, Tommy Robinson... right?

Then let's call it an aha moment or an hmm moment... why are you aligning this to completely uncomparable issues ts?
As I clearly stated the issue is not with the trans community or anyone's opinions relating to that.
This is specifically regarding the courts and how they are handling the case in Canada.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Then let's call it an aha moment or an hmm moment... why are you aligning this to completely uncomparable issues ts?
As I clearly stated the issue is not with the trans community or anyone's opinions relating to that.
This is specifically regarding the courts and how they are handling the case in Canada.

It's not uncomparable. It's about taking extreme, highly publicized examples and using them as "proof" that people were "right all along" about a wider issue.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...the thing is though which was the point of my post...*side-eyes TS and glares*.....Ricky Gervais is commenting on it and on the radio station, it said it had been covered in National Media...so it is becoming more talked about..?...

...I have to say though at the risk of being shouted at.....I am really disturbed by the content which involves female children which is very predatory...and the trans thing seems to be quashing that a little...

Yes absolutely. And why is Yaniv not being investigated is the question?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Then let's call it an aha moment or an hmm moment... why are you aligning this to completely uncomparable issues ts?
As I clearly stated the issue is not with the trans community or anyone's opinions relating to that.
This is specifically regarding the courts and how they are handling the case in Canada.

Exactly

[Cherie]

All that was said all along is that some people would use it as an opportunity, that has been proven correct, it doesn't matter who you are or what you do there will always be people willing to exploit, it doesn't really matter if the percentage of those taking advantage is miniscule (though this doesn't appear to be the case in sport where scholarships and cash are the opportunity), closing the gate after the horse has bolted is not the answer, and as we are seeing the authorities are struggling to deal with the opportunists in a competent way

[Ammi]

...I don’t think it’s a ‘gotcha moment’, TS...three women have lost their jobs and one women has lost her business because what they did for an income involved female genitalia ...and here was someone who presented male genitalia, saying I’m sorry but you have to...one of the women had a child/children in the house and felt it completely inappropriate...and even though this is a story about a specifically disturbing individual/one person...it doesn’t make it any less terrifying to many females that a man is basically saying..’you have to touch me’....and if you don’t I’ll destroy part of your life...and that’s why it’s so emotive...

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I don’t think it’s a ‘gotcha moment’, TS...three women have lost their jobs and one women has lost her business because what they did for an income involved female genitalia ...and here was someone who presented male genitalia, saying I’m sorry but you have to...one of the women had a child/children in the house and felt it completely inappropriate...and even though this is a story about a specifically disturbing individual/one person...it doesn’t make it any less terrifying to many females that a man is basically saying..’you have to touch me’....and if you don’t I’ll destroy part of your life...and that’s why it’s so emotive...

It is awful and it is emotive, but it doesn't necessarily mean there should be a restriction on or reversing of trans rights. Or that we shouldn't address the parts that do need to be addressed carefully and sensitively rather than from a place of defensive fear and anger. That's an important part of the equation, here.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It is awful and it is emotive, but it doesn't necessarily mean there should be a restriction on or reversing of trans rights. Or that we shouldn't address the parts that do need to be addressed carefully and sensitively rather than from a place of defensive fear and anger. That's an important part of the equation, here.

...I completely agree with you, I mean totally...but I guess what is being felt atm also is that these women were not protected by any laws or any human rights court, so nothing for them was addressed which would say equality..?....what was demanded from them was then validated ‘in law’...and that’s an important part as well...this is a story of one person, yes...but it’s also a story of the human rights courts validation of that person...

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It is awful and it is emotive, but it doesn't necessarily mean there should be a restriction on or reversing of trans rights. Or that we shouldn't address the parts that do need to be addressed carefully and sensitively rather than from a place of defensive fear and anger. That's an important part of the equation, here.

It appears that this case has been addressed far too sensitively and carefully for the wrong party, of course people are going to be angry

[bitontheslide]

people get angry any time there is injustice, and this is no different. There shouldn't be any excuses, there should be a change so it doesnt happen again

[Mokka]

I wasn't going to post in this thread... I tend to avoid all the trans threads started on this forum as they are only ever highlighting negatives of trans people in our communities, and hyper focusing on negative issues amongst the minority of trans people.
I had read of this case prior to Niamh starting the thread... and I also sat down with my own trans kid to have an open discussion about what is happening in this situation.
It seems obvious to me that this individual is seeking out, in a very wrong manner, reasons to accuse other people of transphobia to bring to the legal system to create a precedent. Now Kizzy has said in here if I recall that she in particular takes issue with how the legal system in Canada is handling this (or these) cases. I am not aware if any cases have been won yet in this area, but that they are all in legal proceedings from the reputable news source i went to. To that I say, if she didn't have any grounds for a case, the court would not have let it go in front of a judge. I myself have been brought in front of a judge for something that I didn't believe the claimant had grounds to do.... it was thrown out later on. It was a hardship and inconvenience at the time.... but justice worked it's course. That seems to be what is happening here. We live in a litigious society. The people harmed by her false accusations can counter sue back afterwards. That's unfortunately how our justice system works.

But... I strongly agree with everything TS has said in this thread... as a woman who thinks he is allowed an opinion despite his penis... and as someone who knows a fair decent amount of decent trans people. Women's liberties are not being stepped on. There are legalities on how our society should and can go forward to further include trans people as equal citizens... and that will get worked out more and more over time...
But the long standing claim on here that all male to female trans people are treading on the long fought victories in equality for woman is false... and is a masked version of transphobia.

Sorry for the essay

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's not uncomparable. It's about taking extreme, highly publicized examples and using them as "proof" that people were "right all along" about a wider issue.

Not even nearly just stick to the topic under discussion ts why the distracting hypotheticals?
There was a concern that the law would be exploited and guess what it has, that is a cold hard fact. Highlighting that is not detrimental to the trans community, I'm sure they'll be equally as outraged that the law has chosen to exonerate a predator.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Mokka

I wasn't going to post in this thread... I tend to avoid all the trans threads started on this forum as they are only ever highlighting negatives of trans people in our communities, and hyper focusing on negative issues amongst the minority of trans people.
I had read of this case prior to Niamh starting the thread... and I also sat down with my own trans kid to have an open discussion about what is happening in this situation.
It seems obvious to me that this individual is seeking out, in a very wrong manner, reasons to accuse other people of transphobia to bring to the legal system to create a precedent. Now Kizzy has said in here if I recall that she in particular takes issue with how the legal system in Canada is handling this (or these) cases. I am not aware if any cases have been won yet in this area, but that they are all in legal proceedings from the reputable news source i went to. To that I say, if she didn't have any grounds for a case, the court would not have let it go in front of a judge. I myself have been brought in front of a judge for something that I didn't believe the claimant had grounds to do.... it was thrown out later on. It was a hardship and inconvenience at the time.... but justice worked it's course. That seems to be what is happening here. We live in a litigious society. The people harmed by her false accusations can counter sue back afterwards. That's unfortunately how our justice system works.

But... I strongly agree with everything TS has said in this thread... as a woman who thinks he is allowed an opinion despite his penis... and as someone who knows a fair decent amount of decent trans people. Women's liberties are not being stepped on. There are legalities on how our society should and can go forward to further include trans people as equal citizens... and that will get worked out more and more over time...
But the long standing claim on here that all male to female trans people are treading on the long fought victories in equality for woman is false... and is a masked version of transphobia.

Sorry for the essay

Let me be clear ... I'm not saying that the trans community are treading on anything... my issue is how this issue specifically has been dealt with in isolation.
I have voiced a concern that in time similar cases may occur in the UK.
That is not in any way transphobic... it has nothing to do with the trans community and everything to do with the legal system.
It is relatively clear from the interview that this person is a predator, I am only at this time commenting on this one case. I haven't expressed any opinion or view on the wider subject of trans rights...Therefore I don't feel it is fair to insinuate any perceived transphobia based on my comments in this thread masked or otherwise.

[Toy Soldier]

It's not a hypothetical, it's an example of a comparable situation that would be viewed differently and perfectly relevant to the thread topic. Because no one is arguing that loopholes are being exploited and manipulated for individual gain here; it's the very clear subtext on "what that means when it comes to wider trans issues" that is questionable.

[Mokka]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Let me be clear ... I'm not saying that the trans community are treading on anything... my issue is how this issue specifically has been dealt with in isolation.
I have voiced a concern that in time similar cases may occur in the UK.
That is not in any way transphobic... it has nothing to do with the trans community and everything to do with the legal system.
It is relatively clear from the interview that this person is a predator, I am only at this time commenting on this one case. I haven't expressed any opinion or view on the wider subject of trans rights...Therefore I don't feel it is fair to insinuate any perceived transphobia based on my comments in this thread masked or otherwise.

I didn't... I only referred to your post as it related to legal issues... which I thought I made clear by separating my comment on it from my other references.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's not a hypothetical, it's an example of a comparable situation that would be viewed differently and perfectly relevant to the thread topic. Because no one is arguing that loopholes are being exploited and manipulated for individual gain here; it's the very clear subtext on "what that means when it comes to wider trans issues" that is questionable.

No it isn't. .. There's no way in heaven that rights of a terrorist would be given priority over the public, and a terrorist is a criminal... where is the criminal in this situation?

[Cherie]

There isn't much comfort in being able to sue someone who more than likely hasn't got a pot to piss in once you have lost your business, income, and reputation.

The only reason imo this has got to court is because the guy is identifying as trans and as we can see from how people are immediately labelled on this forum, in the real world people are fearful of losing their jobs or putting a foot wrong in case of an almighty life ruining backlash. The trans community should be up in arms about this guy, he is an opportunist and is exploiting them

When Holly and Jessica were murdered by a school caretaker, the way school staff were vetted was changed so this was less likely to happen ever again

When Vanessa George was convicted of using her mobile phone in a nursery setting, steps were taken and staff can no longer use their mobiles while working into a nursery setting.

school staff or nursery staff were not up in arms at the changes, nor did they feel victimised in any way, they were welcomed as a safeguarding measure.

The point being we shouldn't need to have 'loads of cases' before something is done to stop opportunists

In the same way the trans and wider community need to be safeguarded against opportunists, not sure who is going to put their head above the parapet to do it, but it needs to be done

[Ammi]

...for the moment, this story has run its course for me, just because I’m driving myself google crazy in trying to find more in depth information about this person...I mean they are meant to be a ‘notorious Canadian pervert’...and there are some deeply disturbing things reported..and yet no police involvement ...and with the underage topless swimming contest ...where are the outraged parents etc...why is predatory behaviour with children being almost skipped over as a bi-story...I just don’t know what to think about this tbh but i just don’t think we’re getting anywhere near a full story...or something is very off about it for me...

...I mean if this person for instance were a troll then surely that’s an offence and there would have been police involvement because of the serious nature of the trolling ...

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...for the moment, this story has run its course for me, just because I’m driving myself google crazy in trying to find more in depth information about this person...I mean they are meant to be a ‘notorious Canadian pervert’...and there are some deeply disturbing things reported..and yet no police involvement ...and with the underage topless swimming contest ...where are the outraged parents etc...why is predatory behaviour with children being almost skipped over as a bi-story...I just don’t know what to think about this tbh but i just don’t think we’re getting anywhere near a full story...or something is very off about it for me...

...I mean if this person for instance were a troll then surely that’s an offence and there would have been police involvement because of the serious nature of the trolling ...

Indeed Ammi, I know this individual exists and that they seem to be awful, but beyond that, the story has been latched onto by groups with a very clear and distinct agenda and so the actual facts are clear as mud. People are "OUTRAGED!" about what currently amounts to internet gossip and half truthes and why? I wonder? It seems pretty clear to me that it's simply because they want to. They want to believe that any tidbit of "bad" that can be gleaned from any random forum post on this is true, because it confirms their already-present fears and suspicions about transexuals.

"ReeeEEeeEeee here he goes again Psychic Sally thinking he somehow knows what other people are thinking!!! Misogynist Bob daring to tell women what they think how dare!!"

Just to pre-empt this tired, limp old response: No I'm not psychic, nor do I think I'm psychic, but I'm perfectly entitled to read between the lines when forming my opinions. If you don't like my opinion... well, I don't care so tough luck buddy