[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I didn't say that and obviously I know that. Am not really on about calling trump a nazi either, it seems to be anyone with views not 'acceptable' to te left, which apparently seems to be anything even slightly right wing these days. Hell, for ****s sake I have been called a nazi on a fair few occasions by lefty dudebros. Its just the go to word it seems.

Honestly, whenever I post its fair to say its not about Trump at all. As basically, I want to attempt to pretend that idiotic prat does not exist at all as posting about him just makes me rage I have discovered, so I tend to avoid threads and stuff about him.

I do think both sides are as bad as each other in language. I think its ridiculous for 'the left' to be moaning about extreme language when 'they' are just as bad themselves. Obviously they are not as bad as each other when it comes to terrorism. That should be obvious.

Who on the left are using this language though... I mean high up on the left?
I've seen reference to nazis on social media but that's expected, as you say it's just chatter from Joe public.
Who in the commons use these terms, this extreme language, which left wing MPs are inciting terrorism?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

The PM is responsible for how he acts and what he says of course. Admitting that he is not the only one, does not lessen blame on him.

Long story short, eveyone needs to chill the **** out, and think before they speak. Its getting ridiculous.

So in the commons from the left who would you say was as incitful and inflammatory?
Where is the left wing mouthpiece for terrorism?

[Vicky.]

Its not just 'nazi'

But https://www.theguardian.com/politics...orbyn-comments

Fairly sure thats not the only one either.


'Mouthpiece for left wing terrorism'? I said this when? There IS no left wing terrorism (that I know of) so..not exactly sure what you are getting at there at all.

Giving in with this thread in all honesty as have expected my words to be twisted. Again, quite a usual tactic from whenever you accept that 'the left' arent exactly angels in stuff they complain about

[jet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

So in the commons from the left who would you say was as incitful and inflammatory?
Where is the left wing mouthpiece for terrorism?

Corbyn, on the sly, supporting the IRA, Hamas and Hezbollah.

[Oliver_W]

Last night really brought out the Labour gammon!

[bots]

depends how you classify terrorism. Momentum, Corbyn's main backer use intimidation etc to get their way. I consider that terrorism

[joeysteele]

Terrorism to me is anyone who will incite by deed or language physical harm or murder of another or others, holding differing views.

I don't think Johnson's language amounts to terrorism from him.

However as his Sister has just said.
He is using terminology to fuel divisions.

Now, if you have volatile dangerous idiots, who want to exact revenge on those who oppose their views.
Then calling others betrayers, or surrendering or capitulating to what those volatile idiots see as their enemies.
Then those idiots could feel they were supported, especially if that terminology comes from rulers of Nations.

That's dangerous.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Who on the left are using this language though... I mean high up on the left?
I've seen reference to nazis on social media but that's expected, as you say it's just chatter from Joe public.
Who in the commons use these terms, this extreme language, which left wing MPs are inciting terrorism?

Plenty of videos of John Mcdonnell doing the rounds on Twitter today, with his (how's it phrased again?) language of division.

[Twosugars]

His own family distancing themselves from bojo. Wow.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Its not just 'nazi'

But https://www.theguardian.com/politics...orbyn-comments

Fairly sure thats not the only one either.


'Mouthpiece for left wing terrorism'? I said this when? There IS no left wing terrorism (that I know of) so..not exactly sure what you are getting at there at all.

Giving in with this thread in all honesty as have expected my words to be twisted. Again, quite a usual tactic from whenever you accept that 'the left' arent exactly angels in stuff they complain about

Yes and that member of the Lords was dealt with immediately as you would expect.
I wasn't accusing you of saying anything Vicky. .. what I meant was who on the left keeps making incendiary comments that might be used by or inspire terrorism.
As far as I know there isn't anyone, therefore in the commons they aren't both sides as bad as the other are they?
I haven't twisted your words, you misunderstood mine.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jet

Corbyn, on the sly, supporting the IRA, Hamas and Hezbollah.

Nope try again

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

depends how you classify terrorism. Momentum, Corbyn's main backer use intimidation etc to get their way. I consider that terrorism

Nope not even MPs..

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Alf

Plenty of videos of John Mcdonnell doing the rounds on Twitter today, with his (how's it phrased again?) language of division.

Nope just showing his disgust st bojo is not it either.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

depends how you classify terrorism. Momentum, Corbyn's main backer use intimidation etc to get their way. I consider that terrorism

That is a ridiculous stretch

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

That is a ridiculous stretch

A massive stretch.

Now legitimate paid up members of Labour, who are of the momentum grouping are now being called terrorists.

The very language that fuels division further and alienates.

I think your term it's a ridiculous stretch, in my book is actually an understatement.

If that statement was taken on board, widely, then young and older momentum grouping canvassers.
Could find themselves exposed to extremists now seeing them as terrorists.

Frightening.
That kind of language that momentums actions are terrorism.
Could put ALL Labour members who identify themselves out leafleting and canvassing, in danger from extreme nutcases, who may see them as terrorists.

It is not only a ridiculous stretch, it is a very dangerously charged one too.

[jet]

None of you have mentioned the death threats made to Jewish members of Labour and violent actions/disgusting social media rhetoric against them by members of their own party. All condoned by Corbyn's inaction/complicity. Maybe you just conveniently forgot about them, eh? What hypocrisy.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Nope try again

Stop burying your nose in the sand about Corbyns sympathies with the IRA, Hama's and Hezbollah. Your refusal to acknowledge or educate yourself on these issues is so juvenile.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jet

Stop burying your nose in the sand about Corbyns sympathies with the IRA, Hama's and Hezbollah. Your refusal to acknowledge or educate yourself on these issues is so juvenile.

Says the person who refused to contemplate a simple hypothetical. ..

[jet]

Just one example of the dangers of Corbyns Labour:

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/m...itism-1.480874

Joan Ryan, the MP who quit Labour last month over the party’s “culture of antisemitism”, has called the police after receiving two death threats in the wake of her departure.

Ms Ryan became the eighth Labour MP to quit the party last month and has since had to report two threats made against her – one of which was hand delivered to her office in parliament.

The chair of Labour Friends of Israel received an unstamped handwritten note to her Commons office, which branded her a “****-sucking, Jewish ******* who defected to Israel”.
It said she should be raped and “set on fire”, the Mail on Sunday reports.
Another letter sent to her constituency office in Enfield North said: “Stop telling lies about Jeremy Corbyn – he is a decent man, you lying Jew *****. You need to be shoved right back in the ovens.”

In a letter written to the Labour leader, Ms Ryan, said she was "forced" to resign from the party she joined 25 years ago because the "values that led me to join" are now the "same values that have led me to leave it today."

She said the "huge shame" of antisemitism did not exist in the party before his election as leader. "No previous Labour leader would have allowed this huge shame to befall the party."

She added that Mr Corbyn was “presiding over a culture of antisemitism and hatred of Israel”.

Attacking Mr Corbyn's failure to deal with Jew-hate, Ms Ryan added that Mr Corbyn's "mindset, ideology and worldview that tolerates antisemitism poses a threat to the British public, Jew and non-Jew alike."

[jet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Says the person who refused to contemplate a simple hypothetical. ..

What was simple about it? Nobody else bothered to reply to your sly hypothetical question either, they were too busy discussing things that were actually happening.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jet

Just one example of the dangers of Corbyns Labour:

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/m...itism-1.480874

Joan Ryan, the MP who quit Labour last month over the party’s “culture of antisemitism”, has called the police after receiving two death threats in the wake of her departure.

Ms Ryan became the eighth Labour MP to quit the party last month and has since had to report two threats made against her – one of which was hand delivered to her office in parliament.

The chair of Labour Friends of Israel received an unstamped handwritten note to her Commons office, which branded her a “****-sucking, Jewish ******* who defected to Israel”.
It said she should be raped and “set on fire”, the Mail on Sunday reports.
Another letter sent to her constituency office in Enfield North said: “Stop telling lies about Jeremy Corbyn – he is a decent man, you lying Jew *****. You need to be shoved right back in the ovens.”

In a letter written to the Labour leader, Ms Ryan, said she was "forced" to resign from the party she joined 25 years ago because the "values that led me to join" are now the "same values that have led me to leave it today."

She said the "huge shame" of antisemitism did not exist in the party before his election as leader. "No previous Labour leader would have allowed this huge shame to befall the party."

She added that Mr Corbyn was “presiding over a culture of antisemitism and hatred of Israel”.

Attacking Mr Corbyn's failure to deal with Jew-hate, Ms Ryan added that Mr Corbyn's "mindset, ideology and worldview that tolerates antisemitism poses a threat to the British public, Jew and non-Jew alike."

Think that has more to do with his support for Palestine than anything, it has nothing to do with this topic.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jet

What was simple about it? Nobody else bothered to reply to your sly hypothetical question either, they were too busy discussing things that were actually happening.

What wasnt simple? swop out Ireland for the other countries in the UK.. whats sly about that? I was only asking you to be fair.

[arista]

Riots?
Maybe in Westminster

[jet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Think that has more to do with his support for Palestine than anything, it has nothing to do with this topic.

The imflammatory language and death threats in that report are on topic. I'm reminding people who seem to have forgotten that they come from both sides. I really think when you see something negative about Corbyn you refuse to read it because I have never once seen you criticize him for anything.

[joeysteele]

I don't think we are there yet.
However my fear is, the referendum, the very narrow result, 2 Countries voting narrowly to leave.
2 countries voting more solidly to remain.
Then the virtual guarantee that no way would we leave the EU with no deal, from ALL parties except UKIP.
This all could leave the Country ungovernable.

I think more representative voting is now a must, re PR in all elections.
Although were we to leave with no deal, I think it more than probable, Scotland will have to be given a new independence vote.
Which they will vote yes in now.

Thereby Great Britain and the UK is then no more.

I have the thought too, that the younger voters in N Ireland may then wish to have a vote on their future.
Hopefully from me, I hope the influence and support for the DUP really starts to wane more than it's been.

I've only been canvassing a day or two with fellow party workers.
The vast majority of people are reasoned no matter who they vote for usually.

However the big message we've had from people, is they won't be voting in a new referendum or in a general election.

In fact talking myself to 20 people who voted leave, who are furious we haven't left yet.
They weren't abusive, we discussed brexit and other things too.
However asking them would they be prepared to say where their vote may go in a general election.

8 of them said, they had only voted in the referendum and voted leave.
However they never have and never will vote for anyone or party in general or local elections.
Which I found both interesting and concerning.

No matter now leave or remain.
We have on referendum figures around 17 million who will be livid if we don't leave.
Then around 16 million who would be livid if we left with no deal.

How to even try to come together after this is very hard to see.
Which is why I say PR is needed now, to ensure no Party, even my own, rules absolute.
That Parties and MPs are FORCED to compromise and work together more.

A footnote to again on almost every thread some come on.
The antisemitism issue in Labour is something that has to be eradicated.
The party is being fully INDEPENDENTLY investigated on the problem.

As a Labour member, I do NOT personally believe the Labour party is institutionally antisemitic.
I've been out canvassing with fellow Jewish Labour members as has always been so since I joined the party.

It is then now, for this full independent investigation into antisemitism in Labour, to investigate and then rule on its findings.
Then to dictate what needs to be done.

I have every confidence it will not find Labour to be institutionally antisemitic.
Were it to I'd leave the party.

The hysterical ranting of those not waiting to hear the results and findings of the independent investigation, by presenting their own hate of Corbyn, really doesn't help or do anything to constructively help address the issue.