[Alf]

If they build the narrative that the people are violent, then they can push for Police brutality against them for keeping people in line.

But as I said, the people have been so tolerant so far, while others are trying to silence what they say, and the people don't seem to be biting on the bait, yet.

[Alf]

There is no debate on Brexit, the debate is over. Both sides made their case over 3 years ago, and we decided to leave, but some people won't accept the result. That's not a debate, that's an attempted coup.

[Alf]

MPs have brought Parliament in to disrepute, the corporate media has brought journalism in to disrepute, and the Supreme Court has brought the law into disrepute. All in an attempt to deny the people what they voted for.

What a political education this has been for millions of us.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Was her distressed request really horrific enough that you intimate they are akin to actual violence?

Why wouldn't they raise that tragedy?
If MPs are receiving death threats, knowing Jo Cox was actually murdered by an extreme right wing terrorist, when the actual words of the PM are being used in the threats they receive from right wing extremists.

Why is it wrong to suggest a correlation that his use of language is having a direct impact and potentially putting the lives of MPs at risk?

I don't believe the bumbling denials by him that his words are of no consequence, he's well aware of the power of rhetoric. Which can only mean that in the last desperate push for no deal he just doesn't care at this point what actions his words inspire.

You are seriously taking my descriptive words literally? The hysteria is real….

Nowhere did I imply that the lady’s request was horrific - you did that - just inappropriate in the hothouse atmosphere of that day. The lady could have spoken to Johnson in private about her fears, not waited until she had camera time with a planned attack. Yelling angrily at someone in public and trying to embarrass them with a baying crowd egging you on is not the way to achieve your aim and make someone see the error of their ways. All it does is put their back up, give you attention, and make divisions worse.
A quiet plea in private would have had been the way to go with a subject so very serious. Grandstanding, however heartfelt, was not.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Alf

MPs have brought Parliament in to disrepute, the corporate media has brought journalism in to disrepute, and the Supreme Court has brought the law into disrepute. All in an attempt to deny the people what they voted for.

What a political education this has been for millions of us.

You keep going on about this, but you fail to address the glaringly obvious counterpoint. Namely, that leave meant different things to pretty much every voter. The graphic is directly from leave means leave, and yet only 69% want a no deal, which means that's 5,397,330 of leavers that don't want to leave with a no deal.

There is no mandate for no deal, because this means that only 11 of the 33.5 million voters want a no deal. It's really basic maths. You go on about betrayal of the people whilst simultaneously claiming that 33% of all voters should get want they want over 66% of the voters.

[joeysteele]

I doubt no more than a minority of voters want to stop brexit in light of the referendum.
There are voters who would like a new vote via a referendum to now direct how we leave.

If those who voted leave are that certain 100%, the voters, not the Country as a whole, still want to leave why fear a confirmatory vote on a deal or remain.

Or, instead of remain, a vote on a deal or no deal.

If the leave side is certain all leave voters, would support a no deal brexit, then what is their fear.

Since 2015, if an election is held this year, in 4 years the voters will have then been asked 3 times between 2015 to 2019 if they wished to change their minds on what parliament is elected.

Why not take this issue back for confirmation of REALLY did they vote, as was said for an easy smooth deal scenario or for the thought never possible no deal scenario.

If leave supporters are sure they are right.
The voters still solid to leave.

Why are they content to vote 3 times in the last 4+ years re general elections.
However not to just as what scenario of leaving they really did think, and were, voting for.

I'd be happy to see a referendum held on just May's agreement or for no deal.
Remain not an option on the ballot paper even.
Yet I voted remain.

Only the Lib Dems advocate now remaining with no reference back to voters.
They've always been the Party fully committed to the EU however.

A referendum is really likely the only compromise.
A general election should never be about just one issue.
What of another virtually unchanged parliament resulting in being hung again.

Another election, next year or the year after.

I've hated the thought of a new referendum, however clarification and confirmation how and with what we leave.
I now feel is the only rational and easiest way to resolve this.

[The Slim Reaper]

Wagons are circling.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Alf

Being ramped up by who?

The people voted out, the Parliament has yet to implement it and are actively trying to overturn the result of the people.

I'd say it's definitely the people vs not just Parliament, but all the elites, including the mainstream media and academia.

If they'd have just done what they were told to do when they asked us, we wouldn't be having this discussion now.

See... his words are working you actively think that parliament are working against you, that was the aim and he's succeeded. Parliament are now the enemy to be overcome, that is the divisive rhetoric that was railed against this week made flesh.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jet

You are seriously taking my descriptive words literally? The hysteria is real….

Nowhere did I imply that the lady’s request was horrific - you did that - just inappropriate in the hothouse atmosphere of that day. The lady could have spoken to Johnson in private about her fears, not waited until she had camera time with a planned attack. Yelling angrily at someone in public and trying to embarrass them with a baying crowd egging you on is not the way to achieve your aim and make someone see the error of their ways. All it does is put their back up, give you attention, and make divisions worse.
A quiet plea in private would have had been the way to go with a subject so very serious. Grandstanding was not.

The whole argument is based on the use of descriptive language jet.. it's a running theme.

You asked were the PMs words horrific enough to warrant the backlash, I simply flipped that to ask if the MPs words were horrific enough to warrant your condemnation?

How could she know what language he was going to use, how could she and others who calmly asked him to temper his word know how he would react...
It's a debate chamber, that's what they do there, they don't drag each other to the side for quiet chats.

It was emotive, being given death threats would I think make you emotional, especially if you express your fears to the person who is exacerbating the problem but who also happens to be the leader of the country..and they react with 'humbug'

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

See... his words are working you actively think that parliament are working against you, that was the aim and he's succeeded. Parliament are now the enemy to be overcome, that is the divisive rhetoric that was railed against this week made flesh.

It's not Boris's words that are working on me, it's the actual actions of the people who are trying to overturn and undermine the people's decision.

Actions speak louder than words.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Alf

It's not Boris's words that are working on me, it's the actual actions of the people who are trying to overturn and undermine the people's decision.

Actions speak louder than words.

Where did the term people v parliament come from?

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Alf

It's not Boris's words that are working on me, it's the actual actions of the people who are trying to overturn and undermine the people's decision.

Actions speak louder than words.

I refer the honourable gentleman to the post I made some moments ago.

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

You keep going on about this, but you fail to address the glaringly obvious counterpoint. Namely, that leave meant different things to pretty much every voter. The graphic is directly from leave means leave, and yet only 69% want a no deal, which means that's 5,397,330 of leavers that don't want to leave with a no deal.

There is no mandate for no deal, because this means that only 11 of the 33.5 million voters want a no deal. It's really basic maths. You go on about betrayal of the people whilst simultaneously claiming that 33% of all voters should get want they want over 66% of the voters.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Wagons are circling.

Good! He wanted to be prime minister ...if you're not squeaky clean your dodgy dealings will come back to bite you on the arse.
Let's see him bumble his way through this one.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

I refer the honourable gentleman to the post I made some moments ago.

Leave didn't mean anything other than what it said on the tin. It meant leave.

We were asked. Do you want to remain in the EU or to leave the EU?

We decided to leave, so just leave and then you can't start arguing about it. But until then, you don't have a leg to stand on.and you're just coming across as spoilt brats who want their own way.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Where did the term people v parliament come from?

It's been around a very, very long time, before Boris was even born.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Alf

It's been around a very, very long time, before Boris was even born.

how nice

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Alf

Leave didn't mean anything other than what it said on the tin. It meant leave.

We were asked. Do you want to remain in the EU or to leave the EU?

We decided to leave, so just leave and then you can't start arguing about it. But until then, you don't have a leg to stand on.and you're just coming across as spoilt brats who want their own way.

That's just not true though and everybody knows this. Find me one interview where a leave campaigner was setting out no deal as not only an eventual outcome, but a desired one.

I can find lots where those same campaigners dismissed nd as project fear. Tice (the brexit party guy) said leaving with nd would be illegal, so I don't get why you just refuse to acknowledge what was actually said and promised, and instead pretend your version of events is true.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Alf

It's been around a very, very long time, before Boris was even born.

Nope..
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft....3-db5a370481bc

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-09-27/...call-for-calm/

https://youtu.be/KKlco8Qn-6E

[Alf]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

That's just not true though and everybody knows this. Find me one interview where a leave campaigner was setting out no deal as not only an eventual outcome, but a desired one.

I can find lots where those same campaigners dismissed nd as project fear. Tice (the brexit party guy) said leaving with nd would be illegal, so I don't get why you just refuse to acknowledge what was actually said and promised, and instead pretend your version of events is true.

It doesn't matter what the campaigners said, they say lots of things. What counts is what the people said, and the people said "let's leave" and that was over 3 years ago, yet we haven't left yet.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Alf

It doesn't matter what the campaigners said, they say lots of things. What counts is what the people said, and the people said "let's leave" and that was over 3 years ago, yet we haven't left yet.

I've provided you the numbers that prove this statement incorrect. Add those that don't want a no deal on to those that wanted to remain, and you're in the 33% claiming that your position is more important than the 66%. That's the opposite of a mandate or the will of anyone.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

I've provided you the numbers that prove this statement incorrect. Add those that don't want a no deal on to those that wanted to remain, and you're in the 33% claiming that your position is more important than the 66%. That's the opposite of a mandate or the will of anyone.

Where are these numbers from? Has every leave voter in the country been asked if they want no deal? I can't remember being asked. So how do they know the percentage of leavers that want no deal? And if they did ask every leave voter in the country, how many of them said "I'm not telling you?"

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Alf

I think it's amazing how tolerant Leavers are, or the UK in general for that matter. If this was in France, they'd have been a violent revolution by now.

Oh spare us your victimhood

All this threats of riots and war from your side are a project fear

Grow up

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Alf

Where are these numbers from? Has every leave voter in the country been asked if they want no deal? I can't remember being asked. So how do they know the percentage of leavers that want no deal? And if they did ask every leave voter in the country, how many of them said "I'm not telling you?"

They're from the Leave means leave, a pro brexit, anti-eu pressure group and they surveyed their own members. Polls by their very nature don't include every single person. We can change the numbers if you like? Let's say that 90% of leavers want to leave with a no deal, that's still against the will of the people.

Here's the issue again, you're not looking t the facts and thinking, what does that mean. You're looking at them and thinking how can I ignore or dismiss them.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Alf

It doesn't matter what the campaigners said, they say lots of things. What counts is what the people said, and the people said "let's leave" and that was over 3 years ago, yet we haven't left yet.

Nope.

The vote is fixed in time following the campaign where people were reassured they would get a deal

No amount of changing the narrative post voting will change that.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Alf

It doesn't matter what the campaigners said, they say lots of things. What counts is what the people said, and the people said "let's leave" and that was over 3 years ago, yet we haven't left yet.

This basically translates to 'I don't care if someone lies to me nonstop just as long as it's something I want to hear'. How undignified to be so accepting of conmen and liars just because you think they validate your lack of knowledge about the realities of no deal brexit. By supporting No Deal, you're basically supporting the act of the elite deep dicking you to get a good tax deal.