[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Alf

Your problem is that you can't see the difference between an educational slap and beating a child. There is a difference.

My problem is hitting a child for any reason is not necessary.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Alf

Your problem is that you can't see the difference between an educational slap and beating a child. There is a difference.

Educational and Slap really don't belong together

[Alf]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Lol, what does that prove? Lots of high profile murderers were probably smacked as children and went on to be abusers.....corporal punishment did them the world of good.

I am older than you Alf I think, my school had corporal punishment, my dad never hit me but my mum did on occasion, didn't stop me doing what I was doing though. I choose not to smack my child as violence never solves anything. He is a good kid and knows when I raise my voice or change my tone that he is doing something wrong. At the age he is now (nearly 9), the threat of losing football privileges etc would hurt him far more than a slap and teach him far better.

Well if you want to bring up your children that way, then that's fair enough, but it shouldn't be up to you or any law to how other people raise their children.

We know that most of our parents had it as a deterrent and yes corporal punishment was still a thing when I started school. So we know it's not as bad as what people today are making out.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Alf

Well if you want to bring up your children that way, then that's fair enough, but it shouldn't be up to you or any law to how other people raise their children.

We know that most of our parents had it as a deterrent and yes corporal punishment was still a thing when I started school. So we know it's not as bad as what people today are making out.

If it's against the law to hit an adult, it most definitely should be against the law to hit a little kid, hope that helps

[Alf]

If it's legal for adults to drink alcohol and smoke, then it should be for kids.

Yeah right.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Alf

If it's legal for adults to drink alcohol and smoke, then it should be for kids.

Yeah right.

That makes zero sense but ok...........

[Alf]

In 10 years time, Scotland will be the child abuse capital of the west. Because some parents ain't gonna listen to this law, and for giving their unruly child a smacked arse, they might be thrown in prison and even have their child taken away from them. The child loses out, by losing their parents.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Alf

In 10 years time, Scotland will be the child abuse capital of the west. Because some parents ain't gonna listen to this law, and for giving their unruly child a smacked arse, they might be thrown in prison and even have their child taken away from them. The child loses out, by losing their parents.

What a fantastical leap

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Alf

In 10 years time, Scotland will be the child abuse capital of the west. Because some parents ain't gonna listen to this law, and for giving their unruly child a smacked arse, they might be thrown in prison and even have their child taken away from them. The child loses out, by losing their parents.

Having young kids myself I know tonnes of parents and - thankfully - I can't think of many who would hit their kids anyway, ban or no ban. So I think your worried visions of swathes of parents off to jail are probably premature.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Having young kids myself I know tonnes of parents and - thankfully - I can't think of many who would hit their kids anyway, ban or no ban. So I think your worried visions of swathes of parents off to jail are probably premature.

What's the law being introduced for then?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Having young kids myself I know tonnes of parents and - thankfully - I can't think of many who would hit their kids anyway, ban or no ban. So I think your worried visions of swathes of parents off to jail are probably premature.

The ban has been in Ireland since 2015 (iirc) and our jails haven't over flowed yet anyway

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Alf

What's the law being introduced for then?

Because hitting people is bad.

[Alf]

I've just Google'd "Parent sent to jail for smacking child" there's cases.

One mother was released after a judge said
"her actions were similar to many loving parents across the land"

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Alf

If it's legal for adults to drink alcohol and smoke, then it should be for kids.

Yeah right.

We don't allow kids to drink or smoke to protect their well being.....which is another reason why this ban is a logical move

[Vicky.]

I agree with this I think

I also disagree that smacking is used as a means of dicipline, rather than the adult losing control of their temper..in the huge majority of cases anyway. I have smacked Skye once, never James. I felt so guilty too, and convinced mysef it was to teach her to behave, when really, it was a result of me losing it rather than anything else.

Also 'a tap' or whatever people say, its not that as a tap would..well not even slightly shock the child..which is apparently the reason for the 'tap'. I think many lie to themselves about it all tbh, I know I did for a while til I thought about it properly.

I think its slightly..dangerous to put smacking in the same category as beating mind.

[Alf]

You're all probably right, it's probably a lack of Youth clubs why children are now regularly stabbing each other to death on the streets.

A hug will sort them out.

[Vicky.]

Because there is clearly nothing between smacking a child and a hug?

IDK, I am quite conflicted on this really as I was smacked and as someone (parm?) said, I found shouting to be much much worse than smacking. And yes, kids need discipline and some simply do not respond to the likes of grounding, naughty step, etc.

But what made me think I am against it is basically..lets say a person in a nursing home was regressing and starting to behave like a child, being naughty on purpose, doing unsafe things.noone would think it was fine to just give them a 'bit of a tap' to try and get them to behave. So..I cannot really justify it for kids, despite doing it once myself.

[Alf]

It's the circle of life.

Us humans interfere far too much in nature, sometimes for the good, but sometimes we might think it's for the good, but actually we get things wrong. We're only human, afterall.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Alf

You're all probably right, it's probably a lack of Youth clubs why children are now regularly stabbing each other to death on the streets.

A hug will sort them out.

I don't understand that logic though Alf.....look at all the high profile serial killers of our recent past. The Moors Murderers, The Yorkshire Ripper, Shipman, Fred and Rose West etc etc......all were probably disciplined by smacking as children, didn't stop them from going on and murdering countless victims.

You have no idea if the kids who are out stabbing each other now were hit as kids - maybe they were and so think that carrying out violent acts on each other is allowed coz well their parents hit them

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I don't understand that logic though Alf.....look at all the high profile serial killers of our recent past. The Moors Murderers, The Yorkshire Ripper, Shipman, Fred and Rose West etc etc......all were probably disciplined by smacking as children, didn't stop them from going on and murdering countless victims.



You have no idea if the kids who are out stabbing each other now were hit as kids - maybe they were and so think that carrying out violent acts on each other is allowed coz well their parents hit them

Exactly

[Alf]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I don't understand that logic though Alf.....look at all the high profile serial killers of our recent past. The Moors Murderers, The Yorkshire Ripper, Shipman, Fred and Rose West etc etc......all were probably disciplined by smacking as children, didn't stop them from going on and murdering countless victims.

You have no idea if the kids who are out stabbing each other now were hit as kids - maybe they were and so think that carrying out violent acts on each other is allowed coz well their parents hit them

It usually turns out in most cases of seriel killers, that they were physically or sexually abused, or both as a child.

I'm not talking about abusing a child, I'm talking about a smacked arse for doing wrong, so that a child associates doing wrong with having consequences.

The child doesn't cry because you hurt them with a slap to the arse, the child cries because it knows it's let down, disappointed the person whom gives it love, and they learn a lesson that doing bad things brings a negative to them.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Alf

It usually turns out in most cases of seriel killers, that they were physically or sexually abused, or both as a child.

I'm not talking about abusing a child, I'm talking about a smacked arse for doing wrong, so that a child associates doing wrong with having consequences.

The child doesn't cry because you hurt them with a slap to the arse, the child cries because it knows it's let down, disappointed the person whom gives it love, and they learn a lesson that doing bad things brings a negative to them.

And most children will respond to non-violent means of punishment. I will never agree that a smack is more effective that any other form discipline so we will just go round in circles for hours.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

And most children will respond to non-violent means of punishment. I will never agree that a smack is more effective that any other form discipline so we will just go round in circles for hours.

I'd rather we go around in circles on the debate, than governments dictating how people should bring up their children.

Put the question to the people of Scotland first, before enforcing a law such as this. Where does it stop?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

You have no idea if the kids who are out stabbing each other now were hit as kids - maybe they were and so think that carrying out violent acts on each other is allowed coz well their parents hit them

Well yes, this was part of my decision too tbh. Basically, people who smack to get kids to behave, are teaching them that violence is the way to get what you want. Its also quite ridiculous, as I have heard in a play area before, when a parent smacks their child..the reason? Because they hit another child. So you are punishing a child for hitting and telling them its wrong to hit someone, by hitting them

[parmnion]

To be honest I was smacked as a kid..a lot....

It made me a bit of a **** in my teenage years.