[Toy Soldier]

Am I wrong in thinking that something like this would need approval by parliament? A government couldn't just decide for themselves to implement this, surely? I definitely can't see it getting through on a vote

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Am I wrong in thinking that something like this would need approval by parliament? A government couldn't just decide for themselves to implement this, surely? I definitely can't see it getting through on a vote

In normal times yes it would.

I think it's still so Parliament would have to support it.

However with this particular PM and government who knows what normal is anymore, just my view that.

I recall Blair wanted ID cards for all, not on the electoral voting issue.
However that had to be dropped and not acted on.

Hopefully this will be prevented.
In fact ai think it's something thst should never be implemented without ALL political parties agreement.
Not just a single government's.

[Toy Soldier]

IIRC Blair was still pushing his ID cards right up until the end of his term and it was actually being piloted (very small scale) during Brown's time as PM. Scrapped, ironically by the Conservatives, in 2010.

[Oliver_W]

What was the reason Blaire wanted them in place? Was it to ease people getting work etc with how expensive photo ID can be?

[bitontheslide]

Blairs ID card wasn't limited to ID it was to contain all information on you like your health status, criminal status etc etc etc. I don't think anyone has a problem with an ID card, and the government are proposing that they be free. The problem comes when defining their scope and purpose. Then it can be sinister.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Blairs ID card wasn't limited to ID it was to contain all information on you like your health status, criminal status etc etc etc. I don't think anyone has a problem with an ID card, and the government are proposing that they be free. The problem comes when defining their scope and purpose. Then it can be sinister.

Yikes that does sound a bit Commie ...

[smudgie]

I am all for it.
Not just for voting, it’s a ruddy nightmare if you don’t have a passport or driving license.
The bank wants photo ID, the solicitors need photo ID.
So a free card would be handy thank you very much.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Yikes that does sound a bit Commie ...

Authoritarian yes, I don't think communism really comes into it... Plenty of examples of authoritarian capitalism.

But yeah it was going to contain biometric data (fingerprints, iris scans I think?) and was supposedly to reduce identity theft etc. but it was several steps too far. Really dystopian stuff. Cameron's conservatives scrapped it, one of the few good things they did, but I honestly imagine Boris and pals would be all for it.

[Livia]

I'm all for ID cards for everyone... although not with iris scans and fingerprints etc Blair had proposed. That's just too far.

[The Slim Reaper]

A solution in need of a problem.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

I'm all for ID cards for everyone... although not with iris scans and fingerprints etc Blair had proposed. That's just too far.

My main contention would be, though, they would have to be free... And if they can do free ID cards for all, then why not simply give out full passports for free instead of charging £80 . My guess would be that it's not secure to do that and global passport standards require too much checking to be feasible without a charge, but then if that is the case, what's the point of a free mandatory ID card that doesn't have a high standard of security; or at least less than would be required for currently valid photo ID.

So really the only way they could do mandatory ID for voting, is to use the current paths to getting ID - all of which come with a fee. And while it may be a relatively small fee in the grand scheme of things... No matter how small it is, it is a financial barrier to voting. "Pay to vote" in a roundabout way. A bit of a disaster for the whole concept of democracy... But I guess we're a long way down that rabbit hole already.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

My main contention would be, though, they would have to be free... And if they can do free ID cards for all, then why not simply give out full passports for free instead of charging £80 . My guess would be that it's not secure to do that and global passport standards require too much checking to be feasible without a charge, but then if that is the case, what's the point of a free mandatory ID card that doesn't have a high standard of security; or at least less than would be required for currently valid photo ID.

So really the only way they could do mandatory ID for voting, is to use the current paths to getting ID - all of which come with a fee. And while it may be a relatively small fee in the grand scheme of things... No matter how small it is, it is a financial barrier to voting. "Pay to vote" in a roundabout way. A bit of a disaster for the whole concept of democracy... But I guess we're a long way down that rabbit hole already.

I don't think they should be used for voting, Not at all. I think our system is pretty secure already. But ID cards would make things simpler for people who don't have a driving licence or a passport and I think that might apply particularly to people on low incomes, the elderly etc. I liked the idea about using people's National Insurance number. And they definitely should be free.