[michael21]

There lots of ways to look at this you could blam the carer or the carer company policy but why is that policy in places it for the safety of there clients when some one old fall you could pick them up and put then in a bed or chair but what use Is that the hospital we check all things why did she fall what can be done so this dose not happen again

Also with out the carer who know how long she could have been there


When you call 999 2 hours is to long to wait

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Cherie

That doesn't mean they can't review how they treat their paying customers, no other age group would put up with this, would you leave a child alone after a fall for two hours? would you even leave an injured animal? unfortunately a lot of elderly do not have anyone to lobby on their behalf, the system is broken it needs fixing

I think you are missing the point, even if the lady had a carer or a relative stay with her she would still be on the floor for two hours.

Plus I have a real life comparison, a year ago my partners daughter who is a dancer, fell while doing a dance routine on a solid floor,she got her landing wrong and fell badly, so was on the floor in pain, same thing happened, did not move her because of nhs advise, she spent over an hour on a cold floor waiting for an ambulance to turn up because she was not classed as an emergency.

It’s not about who is with them when they’are in need of medical assistance but the time it takes for them to get medical assistance.

[joeysteele]

This I have come across many times.
The ambulance wait is fairly standard unless you can say the patient is unconscious or not breathing.
It takes a fair while to go through the questions fired at you for starters.

The carer wasn't to blame.
They are often working to tight timings.
Not much chance to be flexible.

The only possible solution here is if a neighbour could have been able to stay with her.

The whole social care system can be horrendous in circumstances like this.
Far from improving, it appears to be getting worse.

Really it's disgraceful this Lady was left up to 2 hours in this plight.
Really awful.

However it's a far more regular occurrence than is thought or even believed.
Massive improvements are needed across the board as to the social care set up.
Massive.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

I think you are missing the point, even if the lady had a carer or a relative stay with her she would still be on the floor for two hours.

Plus I have a real life comparison, a year ago my partners daughter who is a dancer, fell while doing a dance routine on a solid floor,she got her landing wrong and fell badly, so was on the floor in pain, same thing happened, did not move her because of nhs advise, she spent over an hour on a cold floor waiting for an ambulance to turn up because she was not classed as an emergency.

It’s not about who is with them when they’are in need of medical assistance but the time it takes for them to get medical assistance.

I am not missing any point Sherriff, the point I have been making from the off is that the company has no policy in place to cover events like this, a policy to ensure that the person on the floor is safeguarded while they are waiting for help to arrive, falls and old people are not uncommon, it part and parcel of the 'care' you are being paid to provide, the company can't control how long its going to take the ambulance to arrive, but they can control how they handle the wait time with their paying customer, if someone was with her, the time would go faster, they could stay in touch with ambulance control to check they were on schedule to arrive, they could hold their hand, must be a horrible experience to lie on the floor unable to get up, never mind being on your own.


As a matter of interest did everyone head off and leave your partners daughter on her own on the floor? and would you have been happy if they did?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by michael21

There lots of ways to look at this you could blam the carer or the carer company policy but why is that policy in places it for the safety of there clients when some one old fall you could pick them up and put then in a bed or chair but what use Is that the hospital we check all things why did she fall what can be done so this dose not happen again

Also with out the carer who know how long she could have been there


When you call 999 2 hours is to long to wait

It's standard policy to not to move someone if they have fallen, as your friend was unaware of this, the company are not providing proper training, its not her fault that she couldn't wait if she had other people to get to, that is what her manager is there to sort out

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I am not missing any point Sherriff, the point I have been making from the off is that the company has no policy in place to cover events like this, a policy to ensure that the person on the floor is safeguarded while they are waiting for help to arrive, falls and old people are not uncommon, it part and parcel of the 'care' you are being paid to provide, the company can't control how long its going to take the ambulance to arrive, but they can control how they handle the wait time with their paying customer, if someone was with her, the time would go faster, they could stay in touch with ambulance control to check they were on schedule to arrive, they could hold their hand, must be a horrible experience to lie on the floor unable to get up, never mind being on your own.


As a matter of interest did everyone head off and leave your partners daughter


on her own on the floor? and would you have been happy if they did?

No she was not left on her own because she was in a college during a lesson.

It’s not about being happy at some one being left, it’s about the time it takes for some to receive medical attention.


The simplest way of saying it is, if an ambulance or even a paramedic was available to attend she would not be left on her own.

At the scene of an accident the doctor/paramedic will treat the person making no noise first, not the one making the most noise.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Cherie

It's standard policy to not to move someone if they have fallen, as your friend was unaware of this, the company are not providing proper training, its not her fault that she couldn't wait if she had other people to get to, that is what her manager is there to sort out

His friend was aware not to move someone who has fallen.

[thesheriff443]

The company’s that look after elderly people in their homes bid for the contracts from the local council and their are lots of companies putting in tenders that are competitive to try and win the contract.

Wot they will provide as a service for the price they will charge is all in the contact that is seen by the council.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

No she was not left on her own because she was in a college during a lesson.

It’s not about being happy at some one being left, it’s about the time it takes for some to receive medical attention.


The simplest way of saying it is, if an ambulance or even a paramedic was available to attend she would not be left on her own.

At the scene of an accident the doctor/paramedic will treat the person making no noise first, not the one making the most noise.

we are talking about two different things, the ambulance service and the company who are being paid to provide care, the ambulance service will have prioritised the call and if there is no danger to life then she would have gone down the queue, it could have just been a busy day for the ambulance service, we don't know, what we do know is the the Company paid to care for her were aware that there would be a 2 hour wait and did nothing to support her for those two hours

I will ask again, if it had been the end of the College day would you have been happy if everyone said bye now to your partners daughter and headed off, even on a basic human level leaving someone who is injured on their own is wrong, you can blame the ambulance service, or blame whoever, but it comes down to empathy and how we treat our elderly, if you found a dog lying by the side of the road injured and you called the vet and he said he would be two hours would you head off home as your job was done or would you wait for the vet?

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Cherie

we are talking about two different things, the ambulance service and the company who are being paid to provide care, the ambulance service will have prioritised the call and if there is no danger to life then she would have gone down the queue, it could have just been a busy day for the ambulance service, we don't know, what we do know is the the Company paid to care for her were aware that there would be a 2 hour wait and did nothing to support her for those two hours

I will ask again, if it had been the end of the College day would you have been happy if everyone said bye now to your partners daughter and headed off, even on a basic human level leaving someone who is injured on their own is wrong, you can blame the ambulance service, or blame whoever, but it comes down to empathy and how we treat our elderly, if you found a dog lying by the side of the road injured and you called the vet and he said he would be two hours would you head off home as your job was done or would you wait for the vet?

Cherie you are trying to take me down a path that leads to your chosen destination.
The company won’t wait around as they are running a business, this situation is happening daily.
The world we live in is based around making money not doing what would be considered as doing the decent thing.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Cherie you are trying to take me down a path that leads to your chosen destination.
The company won’t wait around as they are running a business, this situation is happening daily.
The world we live in is based around making money not doing what would be considered as doing the decent thing.

So a business purporting to provide 'care' in return for payment, doesn't actually need to do that in your book, I see

you could apply that analogy of yours to any situation where a business provides shoddy service,

no trains today...oh well they need to make money

no bin collection this week...they are a business after all, I expect they stopped the collection to increase their profits , who cares if you paid your council tax and expected a bin collection every week


Lets leave it there, I literally am DONE

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Cherie you are trying to take me down a path that leads to your chosen destination.
The company won’t wait around as they are running a business, this situation is happening daily.
The world we live in is based around making money not doing what would be considered as doing the decent thing.

This is not actually true, especially when added on to your previous posts on the subject. I know this because this is my area of business. I put these tenders and contracts together, not within older persons services but across the young persons social care/social housing sector, and they all run the same way, with provision for specific needs.

There are emergency procedures to follow in instances like these, and to work with older people, even as an agency worker, you need to have specific training. To leave this person alone is a decision either the carer or the on-call supervisor would have to make intentionally. It's not a money issue.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Cherie

[/B]

So a business purporting to provide 'care' in return for payment, doesn't actually need to do that in your book, I see

you could apply that analogy of yours to any situation where a business provides shoddy service,

no trains today...oh well they need to make money

no bin collection this week...they are a business after all, I expect they stopped the collection to increase their profits , who cares if you paid your council tax and expected a bin collection every week


Lets leave it there, I literally am DONE

Well you might be donebut im not!

I’m not running these care services so have no control over their policies.

And you trying to put all services in same ball park is not a valid argument.

Do I think it’s wrong to leave someone onthe floor? Yes, am I one leaving someone on the floor no.

[michael21]

My friend handed in her notices the other day saying she want better pay and more better travel cost they want her to say she finds out there decission tomorrow

[parmnion]

EU red tape I'm afraid.

[michael21]

Originally Posted by parmnion

EU red tape I'm afraid.

She dose like to be tie up but that a whole diffent thread

[Babayaro.]

With my work, if the person we support has a fall then like your friend, we are not supposed to help them up and instead ask if they can get theirselves up (this is mainly to keep us safe as lifting a person obviously has its physical risks). If they cannot, then an ambulance will need to be called. But to leave the person all alone is very negligent tbh, especially someone that vulnerable. Luckily I haven't experienced it, but if a person I was supporting did have a minor fall, I would probably go against company policy and help them up, just to save the hassle of getting an ambulance out. Obviously if there's clear damage/injury then it would be different.

[Kizzy]

Agreed, can I see it getting better anytime soon? No

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by michael21

So she goes to old people house and help them



On her round one of the old lady's she care for had a bad fall she not aloud to help her up as its her company policy she rang 999 and they said the ambulance would be 2 hours she phone her office and there said to ut a pillow and Blanket on her and then carry on with her rounds the old lady has a key safe so all 999 people can get in to the house



By friend was sad she had to leave her there

Any update on the person in question ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Livia]

It's appalling that people have to call an ambulance if someone falls. Newham has roughly the same number of ambulances as it had forty years ago. They've built Beckton since then and built God knows how many houses on every bit of spare land. The population must have doubled. But they have the same number of ambulances they had back then. So next time there's an inquiry into why the ambulance was late, maybe someone could tell them that they need more ambulances.

[michael21]

Omg one of the carer who work fir the same company was on a night call and her car get attack

[michael21]

My friend