[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Also you should definitely care to learn about the horrors of the US healthcare system, if we aren't careful and critical of the government it could easily become our healthcare system.

Exactly what I've been saying too .

[Toy Soldier]

There are huge administrative problems within the NHS and a lot of poor management and ineffective leadership, that much is true, but I'm not sure how anyone could possibly think that the solution to that problem is funding cuts, low pay for front line staff, or a shift to privitisation.

Government should have been providing world-class funding AND addressing the other issues at the same time. At the end of the day, the buck stops with the government... where the NHS has been mismanaged that should have been addressed as a separate issue. Instead they used it as an excuse to say "you'd have plenty of money if you managed it better" and cut funding expecting (supposedly) that the problem would then "have to" fix itself. Which of course it did not, management did not improve, and services suffered further. But then they didn't expect funding cuts to fix it, it was just an excuse to cut funding that they wanted to cut anyway and push for privitisation.

We're now getting a stark look at why private healthcare systems are a disaster and hopefully the Tories are paying attention.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There are huge administrative problems within the NHS and a lot of poor management and ineffective leadership, that much is true, but I'm not sure how anyone could possibly think that the solution to that problem is funding cuts, low pay for front line staff, or a shift to privitisation.

Government should have been providing world-class funding AND addressing the other issues at the same time. At the end of the day, the buck stops with the government... where the NHS has been mismanaged that should have been addressed as a separate issue. Instead they used it as an excuse to say "you'd have plenty of money if you managed it better" and cut funding expecting (supposedly) that the problem would then "have to" fix itself. Which of course it did not, management did not improve, and services suffered further. But then they didn't expect funding cuts to fix it, it was just an excuse to cut funding that they wanted to cut anyway and push for privitisation.

We're now getting a stark look at why private healthcare systems are a disaster and hopefully the Tories are paying attention.

That's why I'm hoping some good comes out of this horrible pandemic!, Boris being in intensive care should be a wake up call for him.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There are huge administrative problems within the NHS and a lot of poor management and ineffective leadership, that much is true, but I'm not sure how anyone could possibly think that the solution to that problem is funding cuts, low pay for front line staff, or a shift to privitisation.

Government should have been providing world-class funding AND addressing the other issues at the same time. At the end of the day, the buck stops with the government... where the NHS has been mismanaged that should have been addressed as a separate issue. Instead they used it as an excuse to say "you'd have plenty of money if you managed it better" and cut funding expecting (supposedly) that the problem would then "have to" fix itself. Which of course it did not, management did not improve, and services suffered further. But then they didn't expect funding cuts to fix it, it was just an excuse to cut funding that they wanted to cut anyway and push for privitisation.

We're now getting a stark look at why private healthcare systems are a disaster and hopefully the Tories are paying attention.

When we get angry by other organisations who are poorly run by well paid execs– the police, the BBC, utility companies, supermarkets, banks, the Church – we have a right go at those who run them

WHen its the NHS (I think because most folk dont see who runs it and dont understand) its never their fault its always "da government)


Labour bang on about how the NHS is the envy of the world but they never mention why no one copies it...

[Livia]

I didn't clap for Boris, I didn't clap for the NHS either because there's no one anywhere near me to hear. If people want to clap, that's up to them.Who am I to tell people what they should be doing?

[The Slim Reaper]

Propaganda in full effect

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

When we get angry by other organisations who are poorly run by well paid execs– the police, the BBC, utility companies, supermarkets, banks, the Church – we have a right go at those who run them



WHen its the NHS (I think because most folk dont see who runs it and dont understand) its never their fault its always "da government)





Labour bang on about how the NHS is the envy of the world but they never mention why no one copies it...

The NHS is the world's first example of universal healthcare and there are now 18 first world countries with Universal healthcare, and many more working towards it.

So yes... a lot of people have "copied it".

The problem with being "first" of course is that the NHS didn't have the benefit of other countries experience in order to make tweaks in the set up, and thus has deep roots in an outdated system.

The answer is making the effort to fix it, not underfunding or dismantling it, or shifting to an insurance model.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There are huge administrative problems within the NHS and a lot of poor management and ineffective leadership, that much is true, but I'm not sure how anyone could possibly think that the solution to that problem is funding cuts, low pay for front line staff, or a shift to privitisation.

Government should have been providing world-class funding AND addressing the other issues at the same time. At the end of the day, the buck stops with the government... where the NHS has been mismanaged that should have been addressed as a separate issue. Instead they used it as an excuse to say "you'd have plenty of money if you managed it better" and cut funding expecting (supposedly) that the problem would then "have to" fix itself. Which of course it did not, management did not improve, and services suffered further. But then they didn't expect funding cuts to fix it, it was just an excuse to cut funding that they wanted to cut anyway and push for privitisation.

We're now getting a stark look at why private healthcare systems are a disaster and hopefully the Tories are paying attention.

Yep yep and yep. Managers with no clinical expertise cannot run departments effectively imo, you can't run the NHS like a business.. it's just not possible.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yep yep and yep. Managers with no clinical expertise cannot run departments effectively imo, you can't run the NHS like a business.. it's just not possible.

and its even more impossible to run it any other way

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

and its even more impossible to run it any other way

Not true it was run very effectively for decades before the restructuring.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Propaganda in full effect

Urgh!! Now this type of thing should be fined, deliberate lies and misinformation.

[bitontheslide]

the NHS has not been run effectively in my life time and that spans many tory and labour governments. Neither have been in charge of a good NHS