[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Why take a horse to a riot? What reason is there...What can a horse do?
It makes no sense.

A horse will elevate them and they can still move about and they can still see what is going on,What reason is there to whip a horse round a racetrack ? all of it is wrong imo, there's a lot of why's, I dont know but I do know there is never an excuse to hurt one.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

should the cops be on stilts? motorbikes?

Should you stop asking irrelevant questions to derail the thread?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I presume they use horses as they can see more of whats going on

Traditionally yes this would be the reason but widespread availability of drones makes them obsolete for that purpose (they can have a bird's-eye view of a riot any time they want). They're mainly used because they're large and intimidating. I know you find it hard to not be partisan on these issues Kazanne but really if you're against horses being used by protesters, you have to be against horses being used by police. They have "a purpose" but they're not NECESSARY - they are being exploited and put in a dangerous situation. There's no way to wriggle out of that and avoid criticizing the police, I'm afraid.

[Liam-]

If the people in charge of deciding whether a statue goes or not weren’t in the pockets of powerful rich racists, who pay to keep the statues there, then people wouldn’t feel the need to rip them down themselves

[Liam-]

The police have used animals as weapons for way too long, they might take their dogs home at the end of the day, but they’re still seen as equipment to them, they use animals to intimidate people and no matter how much you train an animals, they’re still animals that will react in animal ways when they’re spooked, it’s cruel

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Should you stop asking irrelevant questions to derail the thread?

If you're gonna complain about them having horses there, it'd be helpful if you had an alternative suggestion

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

But we are dealing with Covid and Brexit at the moment. What is the Dutch parliament up to, can they not assist in this?

ours is more like, if we can stick to the 1.5 metre distancing while protesting, wearing face masks, gloves all the time the demonstrations are allowed to go on

only Rotterdam city council had cancelled one demonstration since it exceeded the limit of the amount of people, more out of precaution cancelled still though

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

A horse will elevate them and they can still move about and they can still see what is going on,What reason is there to whip a horse round a racetrack ? all of it is wrong imo, there's a lot of why's, I dont know but I do know there is never an excuse to hurt one.

Why be elevated? You can see whats happening. As soon as the first item was thrown it was unsafe for horse and rider they should never have been asked to attend.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

If you're gonna complain about them having horses there, it'd be helpful if you had an alternative suggestion

As a radical alternative to having horses there, I propose not having horses there.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Traditionally yes this would be the reason but widespread availability of drones makes them obsolete for that purpose (they can have a bird's-eye view of a riot any time they want). They're mainly used because they're large and intimidating. I know you find it hard to not be partisan on these issues Kazanne but really if you're against horses being used by protesters, you have to be against horses being used by police. They have "a purpose" but they're not NECESSARY - they are being exploited and put in a dangerous situation. There's no way to wriggle out of that and avoid criticizing the police, I'm afraid.

I am against horses being used for anything not just this,I dont like the police using them,I never said I did, I do not however agree its the polices fault horses have been injured, it's the people who threw missiles.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Why be elevated? You can see whats happening. As soon as the first item was thrown it was unsafe for horse and rider they should never have been asked to attend.

When you're at head-height, you can see things at around your level. When you're higher up, you have a better view, you can see further.

Try comparing how much of your street you can see from your front door and an upstairs window

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

If you're gonna complain about them having horses there, it'd be helpful if you had an alternative suggestion

The police were there, that is all that needs to be there, with adequate equipment. There's no need for anything else.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Why be elevated? You can see whats happening. As soon as the first item was thrown it was unsafe for horse and rider they should never have been asked to attend.

No they shouldnt ,but there were as Ive said though you cant blame the police for people hurting them .

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The police were there, that is all that needs to be there, with adequate equipment. There's no need for anything else.

I agree they should have had adequate equipment, there was far too much damage and injuries for a "peaceful" protest.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Why be elevated? You can see whats happening.

For something "big in scale" they do need to have an overview of a wider area but like I said above, you can get a BETTER view from a Ł50 drone (and police drones are significantly better than that). There are plenty of technological solutions to this so really there's no reason at all to still be using animals.

[Kazanne]

Crowd control. This is arguably the biggest reason for why you can still see cops riding horses in large cities. Horses offer a significant height advantage, and move easily through thick pockets of people. As such, being on a horse affords more visibility and situational awareness to the officer riding it.

From Bing

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

No they shouldnt ,but there were as Ive said though you cant blame the police for people hurting them .

That's like crossing a motorway with your dog and trying to say it's not your fault when it gets hit by a car. Of course it is your fault. The owner of the animal is responsible for the animal's safety... the police own those horses... the police choose to take them into situations that they know are dangerous. You can certainly blame BOTH the police and the person who threw the rock/bottle/other projectile but there's no way to say you can't blame the police for endangering an animal? The responsibility always stops with the owner.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Crowd control. This is arguably the biggest reason for why you can still see cops riding horses in large cities. Horses offer a significant height advantage, and move easily through thick pockets of people. As such, being on a horse affords more visibility and situational awareness to the officer riding it.

From Bing

So you're OK with animals being put in dangerous situations so long as they're ... useful?

Seems like the hierarchy goes;

People in authority > animals > everyone else ...?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

When you're at head-height, you can see things at around your level. When you're higher up, you have a better view, you can see further.

Try comparing how much of your street you can see from your front door and an upstairs window

Do protests look worse from the back.. Surely those throwing objects are at the front?
There will have been officers positioned further back too communicating via radio.

What if there was a child with a ladder...would you take a child with a ladder to a riot?

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That's like crossing a motorway with your dog and trying to say it's not your fault when it gets hit by a car. Of course it is your fault. The owner of the animal is responsible for the animal's safety... the police own those horses... the police choose to take them into situations that they know are dangerous. You can certainly blame BOTH the police and the person who threw the rock/bottle/other projectile but there's no way to say you can't blame the police for endangering an animal? The responsibility always stops with the owner.

So by that token I can throw something at a horse being ridden on the street, and claim it was the fault of the rider for riding it down the street? Someone can boot my dog and claim its my fault for taking out , IF this protest had been peaceful no horses would have got hurt.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

So by that token I can throw something at a horse being ridden on the street, and claim it was the fault of the rider for riding it down the street? Someone can boot my dog and claim its my fault for taking out , IF this protest had been peaceful no horses would have got hurt.

No, because then you’d be attacking peaceful animals minding their own business, that would be your fault

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Crowd control. This is arguably the biggest reason for why you can still see cops riding horses in large cities. Horses offer a significant height advantage, and move easily through thick pockets of people. As such, being on a horse affords more visibility and situational awareness to the officer riding it.

From Bing

How do horses move easily though thick pockets of people without injuring the people?...to me this suggests the horse is being used as a weapon.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

So you're OK with animals being put in dangerous situations so long as they're ... useful?

Seems like the hierarchy goes;

People in authority > animals > everyone else ...?

Did I say that ? NO, this is from Bing on why police use horses , simple as that, it doesn't mean I agree the hierarchy for me is animals first.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

How do horses move easily though thick pockets of people without injuring the people?...to me this suggests the horse is being used as a weapon.

I dont know ,ask Bing. i dont think people would just stand there and let the horses trample them surely they would move.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

So by that token I can throw something at a horse being ridden on the street, and claim it was the fault of the rider for riding it down the street? Someone can boot my dog and claim its my fault for taking out , IF this protest had been peaceful no horses would have got hurt.

No.. because there is no threat to just walking in a street. How can you equate walking down a street and a riot?