[Tom4784]

To be fair, you can oppose abortion and still be pro-choice. A lot of people who are pro-choice probably would never want or have an abortion but they don't want to force their choices on anyone else.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

That's a great point, as you know we only had a referendum here on abortion a few years ago, and the vast majority of people campaigning against it were men and the only ones I spoke to in real about it, I knew for a fact were the ones who had no idea what it took to raise a child. It's weird because when I was younger I was against abortion, it wasn't until I actually had a child myself and really understood in real terms what it all entailed did I switch very firmly to the pro-choice side

I agree with all that, the only thing I will add is that life does not begin at birth anyone who has felt a child kicking in the womb will know this , and that is why there is quite rightly a cap at 24 weeks

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Pro-lifers aren’t pro-life, they’re pro-birth, when kids are born they’re on their own and they couldn’t care less, they want people in all situations to give birth, then they cut funds from all available sources of help to raise said kid, they’re hypocrites

I agree with that, I don't see how anyone can declare themselves "pro-life" and then happily oppose things like benefits to support children. No birth control is 100% effective so, really, anyone who is anti-abortion whilst simultaneously saying things like "If you can't afford kids, don't have them" is, more accurately, pro-abstinence.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

This applies to me & my wife as well - we were anti-abortion until we had kids, which sound AWFUL as a standalone statement (like we wish we'd done it ) but that's obviously not the case... just that we didn't understand how truly life-altering having a child is until we had children. Especially having a child with additional needs, if we had gotten pregnant again we would have had to strongly consider (and likely would have gone with) abortion purely because we know we simply wouldn't be able to give our youngest the time and attention she needs with another younger child in the mix. There are multiple, huge considerations for anyone bringing a child into the world.

Yes, absolutely goes for me as well. And I would still say on a personal level I probably still wouldn't have an abortion myself unless the baby had a severe disability - which also sounds awful but I don't think I could cope with being a full time carer and don't think it would be fair to my other children or the child itself, what quality of life would you be bringing them into and what happens if they out live me and my husband etc

I am still against late-stage abortions unless there are significant medical reasons for it (because being blunt, at that stage the "bundle of cells" argument is little more than a comfortable lie) but yeah I do find that most strongly anti-abortion people are either very naive (don't understand the implications) or very privileged (the implications are less, because they have the means to hire as much help as they need).

Absolutely 100% agree with this also

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

This applies to me & my wife as well - we were anti-abortion until we had kids, which sound AWFUL as a standalone statement (like we wish we'd done it ) but that's obviously not the case... just that we didn't understand how truly life-altering having a child is until we had children. Especially having a child with additional needs, if we had gotten pregnant again we would have had to strongly consider (and likely would have gone with) abortion purely because we know we simply wouldn't be able to give our youngest the time and attention she needs with another younger child in the mix. There are multiple, huge considerations for anyone bringing a child into the world.

I am still against late-stage abortions unless there are significant medical reasons for it (because being blunt, at that stage the "bundle of cells" argument is little more than a comfortable lie) but yeah I do find that most strongly anti-abortion people are either very naive (don't understand the implications) or very privileged (the implications are less, because they have the means to hire as much help as they need).

100 per cent

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Pro-lifers aren’t pro-life, they’re pro-birth, when kids are born they’re on their own and they couldn’t care less, they want people in all situations to give birth, then they cut funds from all available sources of help to raise said kid, they’re hypocrites

Yep and probably are the same ones who complain about kids being raised by single moms etc etc

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I agree with all that, the only thing I will add is that life does not begin at birth anyone who has felt a child kicking in the womb will know this , and that is why there is quite rightly a cap at 24 weeks

Beyond 24 weeks I think the limitation should quite strictly be to either the child having severe, heavily life-limiting/painful disabilities or a risk to the mother's physical health in continuing the pregnancy/birth.

Of course that needs to go hand-in-hand with quick, free access to early stage abortions with no "waiting lists".

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I agree with all that, the only thing I will add is that life does not begin at birth anyone who has felt a child kicking in the womb will know this , and that is why there is quite rightly a cap at 24 weeks

Yes I agree 100%

[The Slim Reaper]

I went to an abortion place once and it was just full of kids. Or ghosts.

[thesheriff443]

I think there is something very wrong in countries like Africa where year in year out they have kids only for them to die of lack of food water disease or aids.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

To be fair, you can oppose abortion and still be pro-choice. A lot of people who are pro-choice probably would never want or have an abortion but they don't want to force their choices on anyone else.

This is pretty much my position. I don't think people should have abortions, but I also don't think it's my business what other people get up to

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

This is pretty much my position. I don't think people should have abortions, but I also don't think it's my business what other people get up to

Also, the people who go on like some women use abortion as a form of contraception clearly have no idea what it's like to get an abortion. I haven't had one myself but know people who have, it's not a pleasant experience emotionally, mentally or physically

[Tom4784]

It's not an easy choice to make, it's a heavy one which enrages me when you see people protesting outside of clinics and calling the women who have no choice but to have an abortion all sorts.

They're already making a difficult choice, to shame them for it is such cruelty ill-fitting of someone who claims to be 'pro-life'.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

I think there is something very wrong in countries like Africa where year in year out they have kids only for them to die of lack of food water disease or aids.

I wonder what the problem is

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Also, the people who go on like some women use abortion as a form of contraception clearly have no idea what it's like to get an abortion. I haven't had one myself but know people who have, it's not a pleasant experience emotionally, mentally or physically

I did know a girl at my school who had 6 before she turned 18. Needless to say though, she was a troubled girl and there were obviously other things going on there. She was also exclusively sleeping with guys in their 30's and 40's.

No one would just casually use it as a replacement for normal contraception.

[Rob!]

It might be an interesting question if I believed you were making this thread for anything other than to try and cause arguments and get attention.

[parmnion]

I've updated the op as there seems to be a bit of confusion.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I did know a girl at my school who had 6 before she turned 18. Needless to say though, she was a troubled girl and there were obviously other things going on there. She was also exclusively sleeping with guys in their 30's and 40's.

No one would just casually use it as a replacement for normal contraception.

That rings really red flag bells. Usually such behaviour suggests abuse, I bet if she'd have had six kids by the age of 18 in the modern times her parents would get a knock at their door...

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Rob!

It might be an interesting question if I believed you were making this thread for anything other than to try and cause arguments and get attention.

Cause arguments amongst whom?


A thread maker looking for attention...
Whatever next.

Why not just answer the question seeing as you find it interesting?

Rather than looking for whatever it was you were looking for in your last reply

[Rob!]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Cause arguments amongst whom?


A thread maker looking for attention...
Whatever next.

Why not just answer the question seeing as you find it interesting?

Rather than looking for whatever it was you were looking for in your last reply

I don't find it interesting. It's a ridiculous question. The two matters are completely unrelated.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's not an easy choice to make, it's a heavy one which enrages me when you see people protesting outside of clinics and calling the women who have no choice but to have an abortion all sorts.

They're already making a difficult choice, to shame them for it is such cruelty ill-fitting of someone who claims to be 'pro-life'.

I agree, when I was 18 two of my friends fell pregnant, both came to my mum for advice (they couldn't speak to their own mums for different reasons and my mum was cool). She didn't tell either what to do but listened and asked them what they wanted. One had the baby, one had an abortion. My mum said that the one who had the abortion had and made the hardest choice....and she still lives with the guilt now but knows she made the right decision.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The pro-life people are not pro-life, they are pro-control because they only give a **** about limiting choice by feigning concern for a bunch of cells, when the actual baby comes along, they don't give a **** and they certainly don't give a **** about black pregnancies and mothers or their children.

Black lives matter and life begins at birth.

This really.

[DouglasS]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The pro-life people are not pro-life, they are pro-control because they only give a **** about limiting choice by feigning concern for a bunch of cells, when the actual baby comes along, they don't give a **** and they certainly don't give a **** about black pregnancies and mothers or their children.

Black lives matter and life begins at birth.

Life doesn’t begin at birth. Are you saying people should be able to abort at 38weeks old when the foetus is fully developed because it’s not born yet ? That is just extremely cruel and just crazy to me.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

I think there is something very wrong in countries like Africa where year in year out they have kids only for them to die of lack of food water disease or aids.

Omg, REALLY?

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Rob!

I don't find it interesting. It's a ridiculous question. The two matters are completely unrelated.

No they ain't.. a black life is a black life wether it be in the womb or out..I merely want to know the BLM movements stance on black lives within the womb.


It ain't that ridiculous to ask.