[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

He is,a president of 300 million

Not 1500

You should tell him that, given how he constantly tries to deny aid and budget to states that are opposed to him.

[Tom4784]

He was also president to the US soldiers who had hits taken out on them and he knew about it for months but he didn't seem to do anything about it.

[Mystic Mock]

Trump's obviously not as bad as Hitler, but he definitely takes a leaf out of the Hitler rulebook on certain issues imo.

[Jessica.]

The amount of lives that have been lost because of Donald Trump is astronomical, the amount of racism he has incited is insane, he's homophobic, transphobic, he made the entire US go backwards. He deserves to be compared to Hitler.

[Livia]

Trump is not Hitler.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

Trump is not Hitler.

...however, he is comparable to Hitler in several ways. Let's take a balanced look at the ways in which they are politically and personally similar, as well as the ways in which there are clear differences."


No?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

...however, he is comparable to Hitler in several ways. Let's take a balanced look at the ways in which they are politically and personally similar, as well as the ways in which there are clear differences."


No?

He is not comparable to Hitler in any way and the continuous claims that he is sound ridiculous. Trump is scum....but he's not Hitler and the continued claims that he is are stupid and insulting to all the people who died... and I say that in the knowledge that Jews were less than a third of the people who died in death camps.

Reductio ad Hitlerum. It's quite ridiculous...

[Liam-]

Of course he isn’t Hitler, Hitler has been dead for a long time, but he’s like him in many ways

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Of course he isn’t Hitler, Hitler has been dead for a long time, but he’s like him in many ways

Reductio ad Hitlerum. Again.... This forum has made it a speciality.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

He is not comparable to Hitler in any way and the continuous claims that he is sound ridiculous. Trump is scum....but he's not Hitler and the continued claims that he is are stupid and insulting to all the people who died... and I say that in the knowledge that Jews were less than a third of the people who died in death camps.

Reductio ad Hitlerum. It's quite ridiculous...

I'm not going to point out the differences between comparison and equivalence again, it's just getting boring. You can compare a marble to the moon without someone shouting "DUH LOL the moon is not a marble!!"

There are similarities, there are differences. It would obviously be an understatement to say that Hitler was morally worse than Trump. Hitler was also a better economist, leader, public speaker and strategist than Trump (which isn't praise; it makes him far more terrifying). Trump has tried to use economic fears and class divisions to consolidate power, has tried to silence the media, has tried to interfere with democratic process - and would have happily scrapped the lot with a wave of his hand if the US constitution wasn't robust enough to mitigate it. I think Trump would have escalated to the point of doing worse things than he is if he was able to gain the sort of unilateral power that Hitler had, but thankfully, he has not been able to do that. Hitler was full of rage and hatred for those he saw as lesser; Trump on the other hand lacks empathy and is apathetic to people he sees as lesser.

These are obviously all opinion-based, and at no point have I tried to claim that Trump is Hitler or the same as Hitler... but it clearly IS possible to make comparisons. "There's no comparison!" is just flawed in definition, but I see it all the time. There's no equivalence. That's not the same as there being no comparison.

I'm not going to point out the differences between comparison and equivalence again

Damnit I typed this then I just went and did it...

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

Reductio ad Hitlerum. Again.... This forum has made it a speciality.

Yes we know the phrase and we know what it means. It is a real thing, but it would be completely illogical to suggest that because Godwin's law is real... no one and nothing can be compared to Hitler or Naziism ever again. There are still going to be situations where there's a discussion to be had that is valid and NOT reductive.

There are many elements of the early-2000's that are echoes of the early-1900's and so these discussions are inevitable and valid. They're not reductive at all if they openly discuss the similarities and differences between the time periods and major figures.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Hitler and Sir Keir

Both men

Both leaders

Both of Socialist parties

Both short hair

Both Virgos

Both small hands




Chilling

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Hitler and Sir Keir

Both men

Both leaders

Both of Socialist parties

Both short hair

Both Virgos

Both small hands




Chilling

LT aptly demonstrating the differences between equating and comparing by failing to offer examples of how Keir and Hitler are different. My own little Debbie McGee! Thank you.

[Withano]

I’d agree, but I can see the logic

Trump and Johnson killed thousands this year due to their incompetence, that’s different to intentionally murdering a specific group

[Nicky91]

in light of hate speech, very well known Dutch brands have talked to facebook about hate speech on there, but none have pulled ads yet

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/0...et-pulled-ads/

The Dutch Association of Advertisers, which includes Jumbo, ING, Bol.com and Procter & Gamble, is to hold talks with Facebook about the company’s response to combating racism and hate speech across its platforms.

also something about Unilever, https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/0...ed-atmosphere/

Worldwide, some 160 companies have said they will not advertise on Facebook for at least the month of July. Their number includes Unilever, which said on Friday it would not advertise on Facebook in the US because of the ‘polarised atmosphere’ there.

in Netherlands BvA

In the Netherlands, the BvA is now calling on Facebook to take a tougher line on hate speech. ‘If you see what platforms are earning, then more intensive moderation should be part of their service provision,’ director Henriette van Swinderen said.‘We believe it is possible to increase the control of social media content without threatening freedom of speech,’ the organisation said on its website. ‘This is the responsibility of the platforms, together with the entire communications industry.’

and also Telecom group KPN said it is monitoring closely what sort of messaging its adverts appear next to. ‘If they do not fit with us, or our clients, then we will take action,’ a spokesman told the paper.

[Kizzy]

Its not just the US there is a power struggle the world over within the countries that are considered 'democracies', those of the left always traditionally offer progression as far as I can see, even Blair before he became another warmonger.

Those that have been right leaning have listed further and further aided by devisive media campaigns... This is where there should be a massive red flag, as we know propaganda against many sections of society was rife in the Edwardian era.
We should always learn from history to prevent repetition, as said to make direct comparisons at this stage may be considered unsubstantiated and alarmist.

However, if we take the use of language, the demonisation of sub groups, the disregard for intellectuals and experts the rewriting of history, the withdrawal of support, funding and services we do appear to have parallels.

Godwins law is all well and good, however when its used out of context to shut down debate then it becomes counter productive and frankly quite dangerous.

[Liam-]

Oop, not the first time they’ve been caught using nazi imagery either

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Oop, not the first time they’ve been caught using nazi imagery either

That's reaching a bit when America's "symbol" looks like this

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

That's reaching a bit when America's "symbol" looks like this

Proving the point that it looks much more like the nazi one, thanks

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Proving the point that it looks much more like the nazi one, thanks

Sure, but I'd never even seen the Nazi cross with a bird atop it before With all the Nazi comparisons people make all the time, why would they do it on purpose?

I once read a book where some vampires were trying to immunise themselves to holy symbols, so they kept looking at them so it wouldn't hurt if a cross was thrown in their face. But it backfired and they kept recognising holy symbols everywhere, like the cracks in the wall, and that was affecting them. There are only so many symbols which can exist,and this comes off as an unfortunate coincidence. I guess some people just know more Nazi symbols than others

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Sure, but I'd never even seen the Nazi cross with a bird atop it before With all the Nazi comparisons people make all the time, why would they do it on purpose?

They do it on purpose to attract that voter type. It was no accident that Trump retweeted that white power video at the weekend either ... he is getting desperate because he knows he is going to lose unless he does something

[Liam-]

I’d be more likely to say it was a coincidence if it was the first time they’ve used imagery very similar to nazi imagery, but it isn’t

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Withano

I’d agree, but I can see the logic

Trump and Johnson killed thousands this year due to their incompetence, that’s different to intentionally murdering a specific group

To which specific group to you refer? Hitler killed gays, gypsies, the disabled, Masons, Jews.... he killed twice as many Russian prisoners as he killed Jews. Maybe you need to know more before you make such a massive comparison. But hey... you're all enjoying yourselves so crack on. Don't let a lack of information deter you.

[Moniqua]

Originally Posted by Livia

To which specific group to you refer? Hitler killed gays, gypsies, the disabled, Masons, Jews.... he killed twice as many Russian prisoners as he killed Jews. Maybe you need to know more before you make such a massive comparison. But hey... you're all enjoying yourselves so crack on. Don't let a lack of information deter you.

you really are unpleasant

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

They do it on purpose to attract that voter type. It was no accident that Trump retweeted that white power video at the weekend either ... he is getting desperate because he knows he is going to lose unless he does something

"Wow, he used an obscure Nazi symbol which also uses the symbol of our country! That's helped me make up my mind!"

Originally Posted by Liam-

I’d be more likely to say it was a coincidence if it was the first time they’ve used imagery very similar to nazi imagery, but it isn’t

I wouldn't even put it past him to deliberately use Nazi imagery, I just think in this case it's more likely a coincidence