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Old 21-07-2020, 07:59 AM #1
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Default Public sector pay rises! But not for...

... Nurses.

You couldn't make it up. The excuse is that nurses have already had a raise a few years ago - something that they had to battle for just to make their pay fall in line with inflation - so now they don't "need" a further raise due to being on the Covid front line.

. Come on guys. Clap for the NHS. we really appreciate them putting themselves at risk . Let's get on our doorsteps with our tupperware, it's really meaningful and stuff .

What a sad, yet entirely predictable, slap in the face.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/p...-public-sector

Last edited by Toy Soldier; 21-07-2020 at 08:10 AM.
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Old 21-07-2020, 08:06 AM #2
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God how ridiculous, this gov needs to take a good long look at themselves.
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Old 21-07-2020, 08:12 AM #3
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Any rise is welcome.
This isn't enough at all, however a start.

I always felt once the government was at the point where it had to put its money where its mouth was.
Then there would be disappointment.

A lot of noise has been made by this government as to these workers and their incredible efforts and work during this pandemic.

However, once truly acknowledging that and their real worth, sadly the government has fallen well short.
If this had been announced as a start with more to follow within the next year or two.
That would have sounded a bit more reasonable.

The exclusion of Nurses, despite the changes agreed for them 2 years ago.
Is an absolute shameful disgrace.

Sadly, we do seem to heading back to the harder line business as usual now of this government.
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Old 21-07-2020, 08:35 AM #4
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...I thought that nurses/lower paid NHS staff etc were due for a rise of around 4% with the change to pay scales as a separate thing./..Agenda for Change...
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Old 21-07-2020, 08:46 AM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier View Post
... Nurses.

You couldn't make it up. The excuse is that nurses have already had a raise a few years ago - something that they had to battle for just to make their pay fall in line with inflation - so now they don't "need" a further raise due to being on the Covid front line.

. Come on guys. Clap for the NHS. we really appreciate them putting themselves at risk . Let's get on our doorsteps with our tupperware, it's really meaningful and stuff .

What a sad, yet entirely predictable, slap in the face.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/p...-public-sector
Nearly 900,000 workers will benefit across the country, with teachers and doctors seeing the largest rise at 3.1% and 2.8% respectively recognising their efforts on the frontline during the battle against COVID-19.

doctors are part of the NHS too TS
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Old 21-07-2020, 08:48 AM #6
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...I thought that nurses/lower paid NHS staff etc were due for a rise of around 4% with the change to pay scales as a separate thing./..Agenda for Change...
Nurses negotiated a raise a few years ago to bring their dismal pay in line with inflation, after a prolonged period of pay freezes. This is the excuse the government is using for offering no recognition for the ****-show of Covid, essentially that because they were forced by unions to make pay fairer already, they've already done nurses a favour. It's a joke. I mean, yes, I do understand that other public sector workers have had increased challenges in these past months as well, and I'm absolutely in favour of them being rewarded for that too, but to suggest that it's on the same level as the NHS frontline, or that NHS frontline staff "don't need a raise as they already negotiated one a few years back", is just more of the same Tory nonsense. But I don't think anyone is surprised. This is why people found the doorstep-clapping to be an insult more than a compliment. Every single staff member knew that when it came to showing any sort of actual respect or appreciation like improving pay or conditions, the clapping would abruptly stop and the excuses would start... and here we are.
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Old 21-07-2020, 08:48 AM #7
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https://nursingnotes.co.uk/resources...bands-2020-21/

covers all NHS staff excluding doctors and dentists
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Old 21-07-2020, 08:51 AM #8
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doctors are part of the NHS too TS
Yes, if anyone needs a pay raise, it's a doctor.

(Actually I do appreciate that junior doctor's pay is far below international standards in this country, but still).

There are two options for why nurses are not also seeing a raise:

1) There are too many of them and it would hurt the government pocket too much,

2) The government didn't want to give that previous raise - one that a tonne of nurses didn't even really benefit from in practical terms - but they felt forced into it by nursing unions and now have sour grapes about it so are relishing "leaving them out" this time round.


It's probably a bit of both.
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Old 21-07-2020, 08:52 AM #9
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Move to London

Agenda for Change staff living in or around London will receive a supplementation on their basic pay. This is due to the increase in living costs associated with life in London.

Staff living in inner London will receive an extra 20% of basic salary.
Staff living in outer London will receive an extra 15% of basic salary.
Staff living on the fringe of London will receive an extra 5% of basic salary.
Depending on the trust you work for this is either integrated into your basic pay amount of shown on your payslip as a supplementary payment.
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Old 21-07-2020, 08:53 AM #10
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https://nursingnotes.co.uk/resources...bands-2020-21/

covers all NHS staff excluding doctors and dentists
This was a hard-fought pay deal negotiated to bring staff's pay in line with inflation after years of pay freezing and obviously nothing to do with Covid. It also didn't bring nurses pay anywhere near in line with nurses in most of Europe, and certainly not with any other developed country.

But yes, this is the government's excuse for not giving a raise. I mentioned that in the opening post?
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Old 21-07-2020, 08:55 AM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier View Post
Nurses negotiated a raise a few years ago to bring their dismal pay in line with inflation, after a prolonged period of pay freezes. This is the excuse the government is using for offering no recognition for the ****-show of Covid, essentially that because they were forced by unions to make pay fairer already, they've already done nurses a favour. It's a joke. I mean, yes, I do understand that other public sector workers have had increased challenges in these past months as well, and I'm absolutely in favour of them being rewarded for that too, but to suggest that it's on the same level as the NHS frontline, or that NHS frontline staff "don't need a raise as they already negotiated one a few years back", is just more of the same Tory nonsense. But I don't think anyone is surprised. This is why people found the doorstep-clapping to be an insult more than a compliment. Every single staff member knew that when it came to showing any sort of actual respect or appreciation like improving pay or conditions, the clapping would abruptly stop and the excuses would start... and here we are.

...i must have misunderstood because I thought a 4% equivalent increase would apply in 2020 through the adjustment in pay scales...I mean 4% is just an average, I would think ...but I had thought that’s what it was...that it was a recent change/adjustment...
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Old 21-07-2020, 08:58 AM #12
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...it’s nothing even near ideal, I know...and it’s nothing near what’s deserved and what we would like to see...but it’s something in the right direction...
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Old 21-07-2020, 09:01 AM #13
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...i must have misunderstood because I thought a 4% equivalent increase would apply in 2020 through the adjustment in pay scales...I mean 4% is just an average, I would think ...but I had thought that’s what it was...that it was a recent change/adjustment...
The pay increases that were negotiated were staggered to take place over several years and again - the more important point - were negotiated by unions to address the real-terms pay cuts that had occurred during austerity/pay freezing. It obviously has absolutely nothing to do with recognising key staff's contributions during Covid.

Again I did mention the previously negotiated pay increase in the thread OP - as the government are relying on this - which should have absolutely nothing to do with current recognition - muddying the waters to cause confusion and justify a complete failure to recognise the vast majority of NHS staff. It works, apparently.
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Old 21-07-2020, 09:01 AM #14
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The people who will miss out is Social Care workers, unless they are working on a deal for them, bit more complex with so many care homes being private
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Old 21-07-2020, 09:03 AM #15
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...it’s nothing even near ideal, I know...and it’s nothing near what’s deserved and what we would like to see...but it’s something in the right direction...
I wonder if you'd be so magnanimous if teachers had been left off of the list?
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Old 21-07-2020, 09:04 AM #16
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The pay increases that were negotiated were staggered to take place over several years and again - the more important point - were negotiated by unions to address the real-terms pay cuts that had occurred during austerity/pay freezing. It obviously has absolutely nothing to do with recognising key staff's contributions during Covid.

Again I did mention the previously negotiated pay increase in the thread OP - as the government are relying on this - which should have absolutely nothing to do with current recognition - muddying the waters to cause confusion and justify a complete failure to recognise the vast majority of NHS staff. It works, apparently.
....well, it only really worked on me so far as I know because I thought the adjusted pay scales was a recent thing, although not directly related to COVID, still a step in the right direction...
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Old 21-07-2020, 09:08 AM #17
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I wonder if you'd be so magnanimous if teachers had been left off of the list?
...I’m not being magnanimous, its an obvious that we all feel the NHS should be paid their value, which is nowhere near what is happening...but the reality is that ‘ideal’ very rarely happens when it comes to worth in the workplace...
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Old 21-07-2020, 09:08 AM #18
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It’s alright, maybe they can pay their rent with all the claps we’ve saved up
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Old 21-07-2020, 09:17 AM #19
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....well, it only really worked on me so far as I know because I thought the adjusted pay scales was a recent thing, although not directly related to COVID, still a step in the right direction...
The deal was nowhere near as good as it was made out to be in the first place, due to superannuation and how incremental pay increases already worked, but the government certainly spun it well. Also, obviously, it means nothing to those who joined the profession after the deal was negotiated.

Then again, they haven't announced specifics of how these newly announced increases will work yet so it may well end up being less than imagined in a similar way.

The only part of the new NHS pay deal that is actually anything meaningful is faster, steadier and guaranteed progression through each band from bottom to top pay increment... which is excellent for newly qualified nurses and anyone getting a band promotion - but actually leaves the nurses with the MOST years under their belt (the ones already at top-of-band) out in the cold.
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Old 21-07-2020, 02:05 PM #20
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Did they go on strike yet? It worked in France after lockdown. They got their well-deserved raise, and they have already had a raise a few years ago.
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Old 21-07-2020, 03:09 PM #21
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Did they go on strike yet? It worked in France after lockdown. They got their well-deserved raise, and they have already had a raise a few years ago.
France has a culture and almost tradition of strike action that's quite well supported. If healthcare staff in the UK went on strike they would be absolutely slammed by the press and the public, and shamed as "not caring about their patients".
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