[bitontheslide]

My view is that they are just over complicating things way too much. Social distance everyone, if that means the capacity drops to a point where they are in 2 days a week rather than 5, so be it. Get a baseline that is sustainable and then take it from there after a suitable trial period

[lime]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Indoor soft play areas open in Wales today, if they can open, schools can too

Headteachers have had a lot of time now to think about how they will proceed, temp checks on the way in, regular hand washing, being innovative at playtime, time to get on board with children going back now

I don't know the situation in the UK Cherie ..but the school situation here in Ireland is a disaster waiting to happen,,Headteachers and teachers in general have no acsess to info that the goverrment get..My 3 sons are in their 20's but it is vital that my 15 yrold daughter get's back to school,They are been told to get on with it.My daughters class is 27 ..no social distancing .It is an all girl catholic school.What happens when one girl starts coughing and sneezing?She will be sent home and maybe classmates too,Gave my 27 yr old so a kick in the anckles yesterday when he told our 15yr old to cough like mad when she get's back to school

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

I got my second covid test yesterday, it was brutal, the swab ended up bloody. I've been ill for over a week now, loads of symptoms. Did my first test last Monday but it was negative, the virus has a long incubation period so they tested me again.

Please take care.

I hope your tests all come back negative Jessica.
Also hope you're feeling better very soon too.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

My view is that they are just over complicating things way too much. Social distance everyone, if that means the capacity drops to a point where they are in 2 days a week rather than 5, so be it. Get a baseline that is sustainable and then take it from there after a suitable trial period

The thing is though bots, if you have a focus on regaining any sort of economic normality, the simple elephant in the room is that many (if not most) parents can't properly return to work full time without schools being open 5 days, and if workplaces are ramping back up, there's only so long they'll be able to retain staff who have low availability. Not everyone has work flexibility, not everyone has family childcare options.

As I've said before, I consider my own circumstances to be very lucky in that I can work entirely from home indefinitely. I know quite a lot of people who are struggling to make it work and are already under pressure from their employers. If I was still in my old job, we'd be ****ed.

Also again you realistically have an age limit on social distancing and it's probably even older than the mask issue. Kids at 10+ you MIGHT be able to get to MOSTLY comply. Younger kids, it would be like herding cats. Just not realistically feasible to get them to do it. Impractical to work it that way at all for primary schools to be honest... and let's face it, even teenagers would be challenging.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The thing is though bots, if you have a focus on regaining any sort of economic normality, the simple elephant in the room is that many (if not most) parents can't properly return to work full time without schools being open 5 days, and if workplaces are ramping back up, there's only so long they'll be able to retain staff who have low availability. Not everyone has work flexibility, not everyone has family childcare options.

As I've said before, I consider my own circumstances to be very lucky in that I can work entirely from home indefinitely. I know quite a lot of people who are struggling to make it work and are already under pressure from their employers. If I was still in my old job, we'd be ****ed.

Also again you realistically have an age limit on social distancing and it's probably even older than the mask issue. Kids at 10+ you MIGHT be able to get to MOSTLY comply. Younger kids, it would be like herding cats. Just not realistically feasible to get them to do it. Impractical to work it that way at all for primary schools to be honest... and let's face it, even teenagers would be challenging.

i think we are not giving young kids enough credit. They learn things very quickly. I think adults are just muddying the water by saying young kids would never social distance

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by lime

I don't know the situation in the UK Cherie ..but the school situation here in Ireland is a disaster waiting to happen,,Headteachers and teachers in general have no acsess to info that the goverrment get..My 3 sons are in their 20's but it is vital that my 15 yrold daughter get's back to school,They are been told to get on with it.My daughters class is 27 ..no social distancing .It is an all girl catholic school.What happens when one girl starts coughing and sneezing?She will be sent home and maybe classmates too,Gave my 27 yr old so a kick in the anckles yesterday when he told our 15yr old to cough like mad when she get's back to school

What year is she going in to Lime? My son was supposed to be doing the Junior Cert in June, he was delighted when it was cancelled though Luckily he's going into Transition Year in September (although he's devastated that his fun year will probably have nothing fun going on because of this.

Also, his school is in an old building, narrow corridors etc, no way they will all be able to go back and social distance. I do have some sympathy for those trying to find a solution for this though, what are they supposed to do?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

i think we are not giving young kids enough credit. They learn things very quickly. I think adults are just muddying the water by saying young kids would never social distance

It's not about learning... you could teach them to stay socially distant from the teachers but as soon as adult eyes are off of them they're not going to distance from each other. It's so unlikely that it's in the realms of fantasy; teenagers weren't even socially distancing in public at the peak of lockdown.

Just to add to that though - kids haven't had to socially distance from each other in public for months here and there have been zero indication that it's a problem so . Although, of course, that's outdoors so maybe that's where the difference lies.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by lime

I don't know the situation in the UK Cherie ..but the school situation here in Ireland is a disaster waiting to happen,,Headteachers and teachers in general have no acsess to info that the goverrment get..My 3 sons are in their 20's but it is vital that my 15 yrold daughter get's back to school,They are been told to get on with it.My daughters class is 27 ..no social distancing .It is an all girl catholic school.What happens when one girl starts coughing and sneezing?S

will there be testing in place, that is the answer really

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

What year is she going in to Lime? My son was supposed to be doing the Junior Cert in June, he was delighted when it was cancelled though Luckily he's going into Transition Year in September (although he's devastated that his fun year will probably have nothing fun going on because of this.

Also, his school is in an old building, narrow corridors etc, no way they will all be able to go back and social distance. I do have some sympathy for those trying to find a solution for this though, what are they supposed to do?

I think that's the murky truth here to be honest. We can go on pretending that education is something that can be "put on pause" for a year or more without severe and drastic consequences but it's just not the case. The aftershocks of just the three months before summer are going to be felt for years to come.

[lime]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

What year is she going in to Lime? My son was supposed to be doing the Junior Cert in June, he was delighted when it was cancelled though Luckily he's going into Transition Year in September (although he's devastated that his fun year will probably have nothing fun going on because of this.

Also, his school is in an old building, narrow corridors etc, no way they will all be able to go back and social distance. I do have some sympathy for those trying to find a solution for this though, what are they supposed to do?

Same here Niamh..She was to The junior cert and is due to start Transition year Aug 31st. I do feel for them ..if goverments globally can't find a solution .why is it left in the hand's of teachers?I must say I like transition year..book list is very light

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by lime

Same here Niamh..She was to The junior cert and is due to start Transition year Aug 31st. I do feel for them ..if goverments globally can't find a solution .why is it left in the hand's of teachers?I must say I like transition year..book list is very light

They don't even get a book list in our school for TY which is great. I've not gotten my sons uniform or track suit yet either. there was talk of maybe only getting a track suit this year, would be such a waste of money to buy both if they're not going to be going in for part of the week, I'm holding off buying anything until they give us some more information.

How did your daughter feel about the JC being cancelled?

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The thing is though bots, if you have a focus on regaining any sort of economic normality, the simple elephant in the room is that many (if not most) parents can't properly return to work full time without schools being open 5 days, and if workplaces are ramping back up, there's only so long they'll be able to retain staff who have low availability. Not everyone has work flexibility, not everyone has family childcare options.

As I've said before, I consider my own circumstances to be very lucky in that I can work entirely from home indefinitely. I know quite a lot of people who are struggling to make it work and are already under pressure from their employers. If I was still in my old job, we'd be ****ed.

Also again you realistically have an age limit on social distancing and it's probably even older than the mask issue. Kids at 10+ you MIGHT be able to get to MOSTLY comply. Younger kids, it would be like herding cats. Just not realistically feasible to get them to do it. Impractical to work it that way at all for primary schools to be honest... and let's face it, even teenagers would be challenging.

...but that’s it though, it’s not about safety, it’s about economy and that’s why it’s nonsense to talk about ‘sacrificing pubs or restaurants’ or whatever ...because risk assessments can’t be done in the way they can and are for other working environments...there is no long term thought either because how can they not imagine that the stress for school staff isn’t going to escalate to an extent that schools may not be able to operate anyway...

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...but that’s it though, it’s not about safety, it’s about economy and that’s why it’s nonsense to talk about ‘sacrificing pubs or restaurants’ or whatever ...because risk assessments can’t be done in the way they can and are for other working environments...there is no long term thought either because how can they not imagine that the stress for school staff isn’t going to escalate to an extent that schools may not be able to operate anyway...

what angers me is that they keep saying they are following the science when nothing could be further from the truth. The science for protecting people couldnt be more simple

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Take care

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Well hopefully the results of the second test turn out to be good news like the first test was.

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Please take care.

I hope your tests all come back negative Jessica.
Also hope you're feeling better very soon too.

Thanks guys, it will be such a relief if this second test is negative!

[Ammi]

...you take care, Jess.....and let us know the results, yeah...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

what angers me is that they keep saying they are following the science when nothing could be further from the truth. The science for protecting people couldnt be more simple

...it’s all so disingenuous and manipulative and we deserved science, we deserved the truth...

[lime]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

They don't even get a book list in our school for TY which is great. I've not gotten my sons uniform or track suit yet either. there was talk of maybe only getting a track suit this year, would be such a waste of money to buy both if they're not going to be going in for part of the week, I'm holding off buying anything until they give us some more information.

How did your daughter feel about the JC being cancelled?

She was not bothered at all..in fact she had a giggle about it.She would wind up her brothers who all sat the JC of how they had to sit it.Still she completed her online work and came out with a B score .I'm allright with that.Yeah will not be buying a new tracksuit ATM but uniform wise I have to because in her school once you pass 3rd year jumper ,skirt and socks change.I'm in Kildare so don't know which way things will go.The Dub's are having a great laugh at us...All around Ireland people were saying don't let the Dub's in ..and now it's us in kildare Offaly and Laois that are the hotspot's

[lime]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

Thanks guys, it will be such a relief if this second test is negative!

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...but that’s it though, it’s not about safety, it’s about economy and that’s why it’s nonsense to talk about ‘sacrificing pubs or restaurants’ or whatever ...because risk assessments can’t be done in the way they can and are for other working environments...there is no long term thought either because how can they not imagine that the stress for school staff isn’t going to escalate to an extent that schools may not be able to operate anyway...

It's the same black-and-white thinking though, that we have "safety" on one hand and "economy/other stuff" on the other hand. Essentially the idea that has swept the world that the only danger out there any more is Covid. Simply saying "we're just not going to do education any more for the foreseeable future, because people might catch covid" is NOT safe at all for children. Saying "we'll just all stay home and not think about the economy for now, because people might catch Covid" is NOT safe at all - for anyone. We already know that there have been 16,000 excess deaths caused by Covid lockdown that are otherwise absolutely nothing to do with Covid and in the years to come, we're going to find out the hard way that this is the absolute tip of the iceberg.

I've been saying from the beginning that it's not a black and white matter of "economy vs safety". An economic collapse will kill more people than Covid. Shutting down the schools indefinitely will affect more lives than Covid and in ways we can't even predict yet, as well as having a drastic economic knock-on effect. These huge, sweeping social experiments are NOT safe AT ALL, it's an illusion, and one that people buy into because they understand the simplicities of "a virus being dangerous" but not the complex structures that are keeping us all alive day-to-day... the ones we take for granted and assume we can just pop aside for a while and not be flirting with catastrophe.

Which brings me full circle to why we need to resume the necessities - medical and health services, schools, higher education, shops, general workplaces - and to mitigate SOME of that it would be sensible to accept that we can't have some of the indoor luxuries and leisure for a while - pubs & clubs, dining-in, cinemas, other leisure activities. We don't need them. People WANT them - there is a huge difference. There are countless alternatives. There is no realistic or reasonable alternative to kids being at school.

I've been accused of this coming from a place of "what's best for me" but that's not the case at all either. I have no practical necessity for the kids being out of the house, I'm here anyway. I've gotten used to them being around, for ME I'd happily keep them here. I have a TONNE of various anxieties about them going back but the options are non-existent... education is one of the fundamental pillars of society. Up there with the absolute basics like food production and healthcare. It's that simple.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

i think we are not giving young kids enough credit. They learn things very quickly. I think adults are just muddying the water by saying young kids would never social distance

completely agree, I think we are total underestimating how quickly young kids adapt, and as for Miss or Sir wearing a visor they would find it funny rather than scary

[Cherie]

oh good luck Jess, that second test sounds horrific I would imagine a bit like when you have blood taken you end up with a huge bruise or no bruise depending on how skilled the person taking the blood is

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's the same black-and-white thinking though, that we have "safety" on one hand and "economy/other stuff" on the other hand. Essentially the idea that has swept the world that the only danger out there any more is Covid. Simply saying "we're just not going to do education any more for the foreseeable future, because people might catch covid" is NOT safe at all for children. Saying "we'll just all stay home and not think about the economy for now, because people might catch Covid" is NOT safe at all - for anyone. We already know that there have been 16,000 excess deaths caused by Covid lockdown that are otherwise absolutely nothing to do with Covid and in the years to come, we're going to find out the hard way that this is the absolute tip of the iceberg.

I've been saying from the beginning that it's not a black and white matter of "economy vs safety". An economic collapse will kill more people than Covid. Shutting down the schools indefinitely will affect more lives than Covid and in ways we can't even predict yet, as well as having a drastic economic knock-on effect. These huge, sweeping social experiments are NOT safe AT ALL, it's an illusion, and one that people buy into because they understand the simplicities of "a virus being dangerous" but not the complex structures that are keeping us all alive day-to-day... the ones we take for granted and assume we can just pop aside for a while and not be flirting with catastrophe.

Which brings me full circle to why we need to resume the necessities - medical and health services, schools, higher education, shops, general workplaces - and to mitigate SOME of that it would be sensible to accept that we can't have some of the indoor luxuries and leisure for a while - pubs & clubs, dining-in, cinemas, other leisure activities. We don't need them. People WANT them - there is a huge difference. There are countless alternatives. There is no realistic or reasonable alternative to kids being at school.

I've been accused of this coming from a place of "what's best for me" but that's not the case at all either. I have no practical necessity for the kids being out of the house, I'm here anyway. I've gotten used to them being around, for ME I'd happily keep them here. I have a TONNE of various anxieties about them going back but the options are non-existent... education is one of the fundamental pillars of society. Up there with the absolute basics like food production and healthcare. It's that simple.

...but no one ever expected an either/or though, TS...no one I know, did...and school staff..(...for the most part..)...want to be back doing what they love with full capacity schools...but it can’t be at the ‘sacrifice’ of safety...how is that okay and yet pubs/restaurants etc aren’t okay because they can’t offer that safety...I mean that’s just hugely flawed from the off and never, ever going to get the economy going again ...because no workplace through this has continued to operate with disregarding safety procedures that we all know are working...(..or so we’ve been told...)...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by lime

She was not bothered at all..in fact she had a giggle about it.She would wind up her brothers who all sat the JC of how they had to sit it.Still she completed her online work and came out with a B score .I'm allright with that.Yeah will not be buying a new tracksuit ATM but uniform wise I have to because in her school once you pass 3rd year jumper ,skirt and socks change.I'm in Kildare so don't know which way things will go.The Dub's are having a great laugh at us...All around Ireland people were saying don't let the Dub's in ..and now it's us in kildare Offaly and Laois that are the hotspot's

I actually drove through Kildare a few days ago, we were staying in Wicklow for a few days staycation

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I actually drove through Kildare a few days ago, we were staying in Wicklow for a few days staycation

I hope you didn't have the windows down sucking in the air

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...you take care, Jess.....and let us know the results, yeah...

Originally Posted by lime

Originally Posted by Cherie

oh good luck Jess, that second test sounds horrific I would imagine a bit like when you have blood taken you end up with a huge bruise or no bruise depending on how skilled the person taking the blood is

Thanks guys.

Yes Cherie, I think it's different every time depending on who is taking your test and the anatomy of your nose. I've had one of those bad blood tests before too and it does seem similar.