[Jigs]

Originally Posted by Fetch The Bolt Cutters

Deserved

Period

[arista]

Originally Posted by reece(:

Think it's not the place for white people to comment on how a POC should react in the immediate instance of hateful racism towards them.

I will say that the bus driver should have immediately thrown the vile man off the bus though.

No, he could get Hurt.

[Ramsay]

Lesson learned

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Not to be overly patronising (well... Actually yes to probably be overly patronising) but I suspect you'll feel differently when you're older. Violence in response to violence solves nothing and most people figure that out eventually.

Then at these right wing get togethers in city centres why are the majority of the participants acting violent 40+?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by arista

No, he could get Hurt.

I agree it's too much to expect a driver to step in themself. He should have told him to get off and contacted police.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm not making it personal, I'm specifically disagreeing with your opinion that retaliatory violence is a justifiable/morally sound response to aggression and pointing out that I find that younger people (not saying all do, or that no older people do) are more inclined to hold that position.

It's all entirely relevant to this thread?

My age has nothing to do with it, so bringing it up to invalidate my opinion and telling me I need to grow up and that ‘anyone with half a brain’ would be against violence, is most definitely making it person, but like I said, you do you.

As it happens, I don’t believe in violence, unless you’re being attacked and then I believe you should defend yourself within a certain level, if they had dragged him to the floor and kicked his head in, I’d agree with you, but they didn’t, as far as victims of racial abuse and violence go, they were quite restrained

[Cherie]

The girl was the best of the lot, trying to ensure there was no violence, its nasty to hit out at an old person like that, the guy could be done for GBH now and get a record, you need to control yourself in public, yes the old guy was a racist but he now has the upper hand with a big egg on his forehead

[Jigs]

Talk **** get hit
Age is just a number

[Samm]

should of thrown him off the bus when an incoming trunk was on it’s way

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I really don’t think that Liam is advocating for violent responses to violence as a whole, as such, he’s very anti violence from what I’ve seen of his thoughts...but more, that violence may inevitably happen because ‘all responses aren’t equal..’...and the older man in his wisdom of years should have known that...



...anyways, that all really...the vid isn’t clear enough for me tbh...

Thank you Ammi, having words put in my mouth gets quite tiring, so does being told my views are less valid first because of my sexuality and now my age

Yet we’re told we should respect and acknowledge everyone else’s opinion as equal, it’s exhausting at times

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Then at these right wing get togethers in city centres why are the majority of the participants acting violent 40+?

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I find that younger people (not saying all do, or that no older people do ) are more inclined to hold that position.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Maybe your opinion won't change and you'll continue advocating for violent response to violence. In which case my opinion would be that you still have growing up to do ..

I cover my bases Kizzy

Those people are not grown ups, and do not have half a brain between them.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Jack_

55:03 (and also 25:16)

Youtube video

A shame that folks won't really watch this and just scroll past it, especially the ones that really need to see it, in particular the "white genocide" crew.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Liam-

My age has nothing to do with it, so bringing it up to invalidate my opinion and telling me I need to grow up and that ‘anyone with half a brain’ would be against violence, is most definitely making it person, but like I said, you do you.

I'll temper my opinions to spare your feelings then shall I?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Thank you Ammi, having words put in my mouth gets quite tiring, so does being told my views are less valid first because of my sexuality and now my age



Yet we’re told we should respect and acknowledge everyone else’s opinion as equal, it’s exhausting at times

No one is putting words in your mouth, you've consistently advocated for violent retaliation throughout the thread. I'd gather the quotes but honestly there are so many I don't think that's even necessary.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'll temper my opinions to spare your feelings then shall I?

You haven’t hurt my feelings at all, I just find it hypocritical that you’re one of the first ones to get on your high horse and say people shouldn’t make discussions personal or, we shouldn’t try to invalidate people’s opinions, yet you’re quite happy to do both of those things yourself, if you want to debate my opinions that’s fine, that’s what SD is, but I think you’ll find it’s against the rules to insult and discuss people’s characters, but like I said, if that’s what you want to do then fine

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

No one is putting words in your mouth, you've consistently advocated for violent retaliation throughout the thread. I'd gather the quotes but honestly there are so many I don't think that's even necessary.

I haven’t advocated violence, I’ve advocated self defence against violence, if you think people should just sit back and let someone swing on them, that’s perfectly fine, good for you, I believe people have the right to defend themselves up to a certain point and if you don’t agree, that’s also fine

[Oliver_W]

One crime or immoral act shouldn't be used to justify another, especially when it's coming from a weak old man who can be ignored.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

A shame that folks won't really watch this and just scroll past it, especially the ones that really need to see it, in particular the "white genocide" crew.

The entire video is excellent (and helps contextualise the excerpts), though probably a bit much to expect people to sit through. I used to be of the school of thought that “all violence is bad and made equal” until I watched this and did some follow up reading

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Liam-

You haven’t hurt my feelings at all, I just find it hypocritical that you’re one of the first ones to get on your high horse and say people shouldn’t make discussions personal or, we shouldn’t try to invalidate people’s opinions, yet you’re quite happy to do both of those things yourself, if you want to debate my opinions that’s fine, that’s what SD is, but I think you’ll find it’s against the rules to insult and discuss people’s characters, but like I said, if that’s what you want to do then fine

You're mixing up ad hominem with holding an opinion relevant to the topic that happens to apply to you, and you therefore find offensive.

I said that advocating retaliatory violence is a dumb thing to do. I stand by that.

I said that in my experience, younger people are more likely to advocate for retaliatory violence. I stand by that.

Both statements are 100% relevant to the thread. They are not unrelated personal attacks. In order to not offend you or be accused of getting personal, I would have had to keep those valid opinions out of the discussion.

That's not how it works. You feeling personally attacked by an opinion relevant to the topic does not make those opinions ad hominem attacks.

Originally Posted by Liam-

I haven’t advocated violence, I’ve advocated self defence against violence, if you think people should just sit back and let someone swing on them, that’s perfectly fine, good for you, I believe people have the right to defend themselves up to a certain point and if you don’t agree, that’s also fine

That isn't what happened though, he didn't immediately swing back in self defense, he retaliated. They're not the same thing.

[Denver]

Who decided to reincarnate the Dinosaurs

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

They're not more valid either, and my opinion and observation is that people - at least the ones with half a brain - get less inclined to violence and justifying unnecessary violence as they get older.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, really. Maybe your opinion won't change and you'll continue advocating for violent response to violence. In which case my opinion would be that you still have growing up to do.

My opinion on this would have been very different when I was 25.

You as a white straight man have nothing to feel frustrated about though do you?

You just moralise to others who have direct experience of prejudice.

Remember you mentioned groupthink recently? You have been told that young people can't rationalise and you've applied it here.
However, you also know that psychologically our experiences shape us as people, that is counter to the 'growing up' or 'maturing brain' theory isn't it? and is personal to each individual.
Liams experiences as a gay man of prejudice might have more to do with his response than how old or younget he may be.

I find the suggestion that a man of 25 is still not seen as having a brain capable of rationale, and when does that begin to decline 40+? So you are only at optimum decision making capacity for 15yrs of your adult life?
How has the human race survived for so long on such limited efficacy?

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You're mixing up ad hominem with holding an opinion relevant to the topic that happens to apply to you, and you therefore find offensive.

I said that advocating retaliatory violence is a dumb thing to do. I stand by that.

I said that in my experience, younger people are more likely to advocate for retaliatory violence. I stand by that.

Both statements are 100% relevant to the thread. They are not unrelated personal attacks. In order to not offend you or be accused of getting personal, I would have had to keep those valid opinions out of the discussion.

That's not how it works. You feeling personally attacked by an opinion relevant to the topic does not make those opinions ad hominem attacks.

You said you’d give me the benefit of the doubt that my opinion is because I’m young, therefore invalidating my opinion because of my age, whatever your experience, it’s got nothing to do with me, I didn’t find what you said offensive, I just think it’s completely arrogant to assume I only think the way I think because of my age and that I’ll think differently when I ‘grow up’

That isn't what happened though, he didn't immediately swing back in self defense, he retaliated. They're not the same thing.

You must be watching something completely different, the old bigot swung and the bloke swung back.

If the bigot had just been a bigot and was spouting words and he was punched, I’d agree with you, but the fact of the matter is, he started the violence, we have no right to expect people not to defend themselves based on who’s doing the violence, do I think every act of violence deserves a physical reaction? No, but I refuse to condemn people who act out of self defense against volatile, violent racists, no matter how many times you call me dumb or childish.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You as a white straight man have nothing to feel frustrated about though do you?

You just moralise to others who have direct experience of prejudice.

Remember you mentioned groupthink recently? You have been told that young people can't rationalise and you've applied it here.
However, you also know that psychologically our experiences shape us as people, that is counter to the 'growing up' or 'maturing brain' theory isn't it? and is personal to each individual.
Liams experiences as a gay man of prejudice might have more to do with his response than how old or younget he may be.

I find the suggestion that a man of 25 is still not seen as having a brain capable of rationale, and when does that begin to decline 40+? So you are only at optimum decision making capacity for 15yrs of your adult life?
How has the human race survived for so long on such limited efficacy?

The development of abstract reasoning happens in early adolescence (12+ Kizzy, at no point have I tried to say that a 25 year old isn't capable of abstract reasoning ffs . Talk about conflation.

Also are you using "frustration" as advocacy for personal physical violence?

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Jack_

The entire video is excellent (and helps contextualise the excerpts), though probably a bit much to expect people to sit through. I used to be of the school of thought that “all violence is bad and made equal” until I watched this and did some follow up reading

...I’ll try to find time to watch it i it’s entirety, Jack...is it of the thought processing of ‘all responses aren’t equal..’...type thing..?.../...I will try to find time to watch it, though...

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I cover my bases Kizzy

Those people are not grown ups, and do not have half a brain between them.

Or...you've just disproved your own opinion.

Some young people have a certain response and some older people have a certain response then age is not the factor
You are also implying that intelligence is a factor, which imo Liam disproves because he advocates a certain way and he is very intelligent. So what's left? Life experience.