[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The attempt to apply this narrative to JK Rowling is pretty much ludicrous and that's where the entire debate is falling apart for the majority of people and why mainstream support is being rapidly eroded. It's just not reasonable in the slightest to try to paint The Woman Wot Wrote Harry Potter as some sort of secret bigoted immigrant-bashing covert agent of the right... And trying to make it out to be the case makes any other claim of persecution - including the ones that ARE very valid - seem like they might be questionable.

I didn’t once claim that was anything to do with JK, unless she’s suddenly a part of the right wing press

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Liam-

I didn’t once claim that was anything to do with JK, unless she’s suddenly a part of the right wing press

The whole thread is about JK though, and your explanation for increasing concern is right-wing influence. Unless you're thinking more along the lines that people who have concerns have been duped or had their heads turned by the right wing press? Either way, it seems odd that people who have not had their heads turned whatsoever by any other element of the right wing press have concerns about the current trans rights narrative? Why would that be?

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The whole thread is about JK though, and your explanation for increasing concern is right-wing influence. Unless you're thinking more along the lines that people who have concerns have been duped or had their heads turned by the right wing press? Either way, it seems odd that people who have not had their heads turned whatsoever by any other element of the right wing press have concerns about the current trans rights narrative? Why would that be?

I think the right wing press have done a very good job of highlighting minimal instances of people using the ‘trans’ umbrella and doing bad things, in order to concoct a ‘war’ that doesn’t really need to be fought, it’s how they scare the nationalists with immigrants, I think it’s how they’re scaring women into fighting their battles for them, but of course, that’s just my opinion

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Trans women have been using female changing areas and bathrooms for as long as I can remember, are you suggesting trans women, even those who’ve had the full procedure shouldn’t be allowed to use them anymore? Because that would be discriminatory Oliver

And suggesting males can use female spaces is discrimination against women, or at least it goes against their rights to single-sex spaces. When it comes down to it, trans rights and womens rights aren't 100% compatible.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Liam-

I think the right wing press have done a very good job of highlighting minimal instances of people using the ‘trans’ umbrella and doing bad things, in order to concoct a ‘war’ that doesn’t really need to be fought, it’s how they scare the nationalists with immigrants, I think it’s how they’re scaring women into fighting their battles for them, but of course, that’s just my opinion

I disagree but mainly because I've seen countless female academics and health professionals being declared TERF over this, and I find it very dubious that groups of highly intelligent people have been duped by the press and need to be corrected by some overtly aggressive people citing little but lived experience.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

And suggesting males can use female spaces is discrimination against women, or at least it goes against their rights to single-sex spaces. When it comes down to it, trans rights and womens rights aren't 100% compatible.

So that’s a yes to discriminating against even the post-op trans women then

[Josy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think one of the key issues here is that for there to be a discussion at all there needs to be acknowledgement that many women (and others in support) have concerns, and that having concerns is not inherently transphobic. And there needs to be acknowledgement that transpeople obviously have concerns about their own rights too. And acceptance that those concerns have areas where they collide in complicated ways.

There is no discussion to be had with anyone who can't accept those basic premises to be honest, on either side.

Pretty much perfect post imo

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Liam-

So that’s a yes to discriminating against even the post-op trans women then

I don't even think that's the right word - maintaining the rights of half the population, versus bending them for less than 1%? Hard to think of that as discrimination tbh

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I don't even think that's the right word - maintaining the rights of half the population, versus bending them for less than 1%? Hard to think of that as discrimination tbh

Except it’s not ‘bending’ because trans women are already allowed to use those public spaces, so taking those rights away and banning them from doing so because of their identity, would most definitely be discriminatory

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Except it’s not ‘bending’ because trans women are already allowed to use those public spaces, so taking those rights away and banning them from doing so because of their identity, would most definitely be discriminatory

Sure they are currently allowed, but that still takes away women's rights to a single sex space. Gender identity isn't a protected characteristic, and sex is. Women's spaces is a sex-based right.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

The Jk Rowling uproar is getting ridiculous now, the killer in the story wore a wig and thats her being transphobic? Get a grip

This.

[Marsh.]

Declining to actually argue her points by dismissing them as not her real opinions, just inventions to promote a book is the most ridiculous take on this I've read.

[Marsh.]

Also, from what I've read of this book there is no "trans villain" it's literally a serial killer using disguises to fool people. A long standing crime fiction trope.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Scarlett.

I liked Harry Potter, but I will not be having any more to do with it, since the money would go to her.

.....