[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Smithy

Exactly, so at the end of the day it’s irrelevant that he didn’t have a lawyer with him

Whether you are innocent or not you should always have a Lawyer present. There are plenty of innocent people that go to prison for something they did not commit....its just commen sense

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

Whether you are innocent or not you should always have a Lawyer present. There are plenty of innocent people that go to prison for something they did not commit....its just commen sense

Completely agree but I think it was down to his arrogance. They will have probably advised him to, most Americans would lawyer up quickly but he probably thought he could front it out.

[Babayaro.]

Watched this last night but was aware of the case at the time. I'm curious as to what it was that made him switch? Because to me, it seemed like a single moment of madness and rage as the viewers were not informed of any past violent behaviours from him.

Obviously the worst part was the murders itself, but the fact he tried to frame his wife for killing her own daughters was totally evil and cowardly

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Babayaro.

Watched this last night but was aware of the case at the time. I'm curious as to what it was that made him switch? Because to me, it seemed like a single moment of madness and rage as the viewers were not informed of any past violent behaviours from him.

Obviously the worst part was the murders itself, but the fact he tried to frame his wife for killing her own daughters was totally evil and cowardly

...I didn’t feel as though it was rage..it felt extremely premeditated...he drove the girls out to the tanks to kill them with their mom’s dead body at their feet...that doesn’t sound like rage..

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I didn’t feel as though it was rage..it felt extremely premeditated...he drove the girls out to the tanks to kill them with their mom’s dead body at their feet...that doesn’t sound like rage..

Yeah it sounds the opposite of rage really doesn't it? It almost sounds unemotional and cold which is far more scary and sinister

[Babayaro.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I didn’t feel as though it was rage..it felt extremely premeditated...he drove the girls out to the tanks to kill them with their mom’s dead body at their feet...that doesn’t sound like rage..

Okay reading back, I didn't word my post very well lol

I agree with you that the actual murders were premeditated but I wonder how/when he came to the decision to kill them?? What was the final straw for him, etc? Because in the FB videos he seemed like just a regular Dad and had no past history of violence, according to what we were shown.

[Babayaro.]

Just shows that you never truly know someone

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Completely agree but I think it was down to his arrogance. They will have probably advised him to, most Americans would lawyer up quickly but he probably thought he could front it out.

Yes Annie you are no doubt right.

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Babayaro.

Okay reading back, I didn't word my post very well lol

I agree with you that the actual murders were premeditated but I wonder how/when he came to the decision to kill them?? What was the final straw for him, etc? Because in the FB videos he seemed like just a regular Dad and had no past history of violence, according to what we were shown.

It is really bizarre....he could have just left them...no one had to be killed

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Babayaro.

Just shows that you never truly know someone

Yeah, that's the scariest thing about it. Like I said before what would make a guy do what he did, all he had to do was say I'm leaving you and walk out the door, why would he kill them all? even if he really doesn't care about any of them, surely he'd realise the likelihood of getting caught, it's almost always the husband in cases like this so it must have crossed his mind that he would be looked at very carefully

[Toy Soldier]

We watched this on Friday and it made me saaad .

In terms of what made him do it, I have a STRONG suspicion that his girlfriend was lying when she said she had never indicated that him having a family was a problem. I don't think she was involved in any way, but I think he hid his circumstances from her for most of their relationship and then revealed that he actually wasn't separated etc. at the "weekend dinner" they had and she indicated that him having a family indeed was an issue and - for unfathomable reasons - that lead him down a path of "getting rid of the problem".

I might be totally wrong obviously but her reaction when they asked came off as defensive, understandably, as she would have been scared about being implicated more directly. So basically I don't at all think she said "get rid of your family" but perhaps did say that they couldn't be together because of his circumstances.

[LeatherTrumpet]

I just laughed at how the neighbour had him made in a second

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

We watched this on Friday and it made me saaad .

In terms of what made him do it, I have a STRONG suspicion that his girlfriend was lying when she said she had never indicated that him having a family was a problem. I don't think she was involved in any way, but I think he hid his circumstances from her for most of their relationship and then revealed that he actually wasn't separated etc. at the "weekend dinner" they had and she indicated that him having a family indeed was an issue and - for unfathomable reasons - that lead him down a path of "getting rid of the problem".

I might be totally wrong obviously but her reaction when they asked came off as defensive, understandably, as she would have been scared about being implicated more directly. So basically I don't at all think she said "get rid of your family" but perhaps did say that they couldn't be together because of his circumstances.

Quite possibly which there's nothing wrong with either, it is a lot to take on, an ex and kids etc. No sane person is going to think "better not say that in case he decides to slaughter the whole family" though

My own armchair psychology as well is telling me that he's a guy who gets totally obsessed with people and will go to great lengths to get them and that will override anything else in his life. From the bits Shanann had said about how they got together it sounded like he had to really pursue her hard at the start and she resisted the relationship for a while. Kind of Joe from You vibes

[Babayaro.]

It's just totally bizarre that he thought the only solution was to murder his entire family + unborn child :/

Instead of, say, get a divorce

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Babayaro.

It's just totally bizarre that he thought the only solution was to murder his entire family + unborn child :/

Instead of, say, get a divorce

Its about total control and completion id imagine

[Babayaro.]

I agree with a previous post that mentioned how well made the documentary was. It was virtually all real life footage which was impressive.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Babayaro.

I agree with a previous post that mentioned how well made the documentary was. It was virtually all real life footage which was impressive.

most of the stuff was on youtube - i had watched most of it already. The TL had no clue about it so she was like F me this is mental

[Babayaro.]

Imagine what was going through his poor Father's head when he confessed to murder

[armand.kay]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I didn’t feel as though it was rage..it felt extremely premeditated...he drove the girls out to the tanks to kill them with their mom’s dead body at their feet...that doesn’t sound like rage..

Yes I agree I believe he had that spot picked out ages before he actually killed them. I don’t even trust his story I wouldn’t be surprised if there was no big altercation before he killed her

[armand.kay]

I honestly can’t get those little girls out of my mind.

[armand.kay]

Originally Posted by Babayaro.

I agree with a previous post that mentioned how well made the documentary was. It was virtually all real life footage which was impressive.

Yeah I actually thought it was fake at first

[AnnieK]

I was reading a little more about this case and came across this article. I know the DM is not the most popular of sites but it is recorded in other papers but, this is the most detailed showing just how premeditated and horrific these crimes were

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dai...ed-family.html

Those poor babies

[Cherie]

I watched this last night, I remember the case, but didn’t follow it at the time

How dumb was he unenrolling the girls from school the morning he killed them and putting the house up for sale, I wondered why the police woman was so confident during the polygraph test, obviously they had that damning information

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...if anyone can bear to watch a full length documentary/movie on YouTube...I totally recommend this as well..it will break your heart but it’s also very
up-lifting...the very, very worst and the very, very best of people...it’s a few years since I watched but it’s a story that doesn’t really leave you easily...apparently Netflix did do their story about it also but that was a few years ago so I doubt that it would be showing on there now...

Youtube video

..l’m going to bring this forward because it’s such a recommended watch...it’s something that I watched several years ago and re-watched recently after American Murder...so far as premeditated/cold/evil etc ...it really is looking evil/‘the devil’ right in the face...but it’s also looking goodness and love in the face as well.../..heartbreakingly sad but uplifting...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I was reading a little more about this case and came across this article. I know the DM is not the most popular of sites but it is recorded in other papers but, this is the most detailed showing just how premeditated and horrific these crimes were

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dai...ed-family.html

Those poor babies

This bit, ****ing hell what a monster, that was really difficult to read

Spoiler:

He then relived for Cadle, in appalling detail, how he killed his eldest daughter Bella after she had watched him murder and dispose of her sister. He spoke of his surprise that: 'Little quiet Bella had a will to live.'

'Out of all three, Bella is the only one that put up a fight. I will hear her soft little voice for the rest of my life, saying, 'Daddy, NO!!! She knew what I was doing to her. She may not have understood death, but she knew I was killing her.'

And the way he refers to them as his babies and calls Celeste "CeCe" he doesn't have that right anymore