[arista]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Tier 3 doesn't go far enough. You can still go in a pub it you're buying food, you can still go in shops, you can still stay in hotels etc etc. Its just half hearted. I would rather be told we have to lock down fully (regionally) until cases drop to a sufficient level. Close the schools, unis, colleges. Stop public transport and restrict numbers in supermarkets again. Going at it half hearted just closing drink based pubs is not going to do anything

Yes its a mess.
Great points Annie

Other nations that have been Strict
have got the numbers down

[Kizzy]

Lock down isn't lock down if gastropubs, schools, unis and non essential workplaces and shops are open. It's totally pointless. Of course businesses are going to balk at the idea but it has to be done...the alternative is facing a situation where the virus is once again out of hand and control, that scenario has to be avoided at all costs.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

He also states it's not the only figure that should be selectively taken into consideration.
In fact that was argued many times on here too.
As many others state daily on all news programming.

Plus we won't and can't be at normal service for likely many more months or years.

A few weeks to regroup and ensure all are on the same page, plus the testing sorted to be more efficient and reliable.
That to me, is the best way.

It's not yours obviously which is your right.
I'm not going to change your mind, you are not going to change my mind.

However speaking ONLY for my own and myself, I and in fact all my own family and friends, do not want anyone losing their loved ones unnecessarily.
These local restrictions and local lockdowns have NOT and still won't be preventing that.

The full Country lockdown did bring them down.

That R figure is difficult too, to fully account without the adequate efficient testing in place.
Hence with the still mess of testing after all these months, a resetting of that in my view needs to be done too.
With all minds and efforts on it.

I'm repeating myself here anyway.
So, nice talking to you however we just do not agree.
Pure and simply.

I support an at least 3 week Country circuit breaker.
So actually does the science.

Wondering how you feel about Andy Burnham's stance in Manchester? do you think he is putting wealth before health? or is it a bit more complex then that, locking down is all well and good but the problems it creates will be far greater?

[Lewismacfarlane]

I've now got a bit of a cold I'm worried now

[Kizzy]

Why are the mayors being consulted? They weren't last time it just happened :/
I like the idea of the places more severely impacted being supported better though financially.

[Cherie]

Does anyone know what is happening in Wuhan now? are they in lockdown still, no news at all coming out of there

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Lewismacfarlane

I've now got a bit of a cold I'm worried now

Coronavirus symptoms
These include a high temperature, new continuous cough, or a loss or change in your sense of taste and smell.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Does anyone know what is happening in Wuhan now? are they in lockdown still, no news at all coming out of there

Deliveroo are bringing me my bat soup so I think they're all good.

[Lewismacfarlane]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Coronavirus symptoms
These include a high temperature, new continuous cough, or a loss or change in your sense of taste and smell.

I don't have any of the others though

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

i mentioned it before, but to enforce it, the police would need to enter peoples homes and inspect them .... because thats where the major problem is. The moment that happens, i will be off to live in another country

Boris has apparently threatened ‘draconian methods’ are an option ..


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[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Lewismacfarlane

I don't have any of the others though

Then chances are you just have a cold.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Then chances are you just have a cold.

.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Cherie

According ro Patrick Vallance the R is between 1.3 and 1.7 so nowhere near where we were in March so measures are controlling it, people need to get it into their heads we have to live with this virus, and modify the way we live, that is the message that needs to be driven home, not lock down for two weeks then everyone thinks they can return to normal service

50,000 to 70,000 new infections each day , increasing by 70% week on week is hardly controlling things tbh


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[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Boris has apparently threatened ‘draconian methods’ are an option ..


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I think we might be back to Nicky snipers ..taking people out if they venture outside their front door

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Zizu

50,000 to 70,000 new infections each day , increasing by 70% week on week is hardly controlling things tbh


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All we know is the R was above 3 in March, so you can double the numbers above

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Wondering how you feel about Andy Burnham's stance in Manchester? do you think he is putting wealth before health? or is it a bit more complex then that, locking down is all well and good but the problems it creates will be far greater?

No he's not, he's rightly pointing out you can't or shouldn't force people to NOT be able to work when they are employed and can.
Then only guarantee them two thirds of their income.
They can't just pay two thirds of their mortgages or bills

If on a minimum wage, what does minimum mean, it's they should get that minimum as income..
Then the government is saying they can only get two thirds of it.

Of course that's wrong and Burnham is right.
I usually agree with Burnham I admit.
However what on earth is wrong with wanting livelihoods protected.

Yes, I agree with Burnham on this issue.
He isn't, as neither are the public health and science advisors convinced that the tier system will be effective.

To impose it and cut two thirds of peoples incomes in a single swoop.

No, that's way wrong in my view.
To anyone on the minimum wage it should be even more wrong too.

This government said months ago, NO ONE should lose out or be penalised for doing the right thing.

Did you disagree with the government then.
I didn't, I supported that wholly.
It's their stance that's changed not Andy Burnham's actually.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Tier 3 doesn't go far enough. You can still go in a pub it you're buying food, you can still go in shops, you can still stay in hotels etc etc. Its just half hearted. I would rather be told we have to lock down fully (regionally) until cases drop to a sufficient level. Close the schools, unis, colleges. Stop public transport and restrict numbers in supermarkets again. Going at it half hearted just closing drink based pubs is not going to do anything

I 100% agree there Annie.

[bitontheslide]

let me just say, that if people were genuinely concerned about the virus getting out of control, they wouldn't be quibbling about a few quid in their pay packet for a couple of weeks, they would do what it takes to protect the health of the city. The simple fact is that they don't see the virus as a thing that could affect them.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I think we might be back to Nicky snipers ..taking people out if they venture outside their front door

you know i didn't really mean that

you can also just have military with hazmat gear, patrolling streets, and just have people fill in forms, if they really have to leave their homes for a good reason (pharmacy, supermarket, doctor)

it worked in Italy, also France did this in first wave, i also heard about Spain same thing, few dutch people who live there reported that on our local radio back at the time of first wave

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

let me just say, that if people were genuinely concerned about the virus getting out of control, they wouldn't be quibbling about a few quid in their pay packet for a couple of weeks, they would do what it takes to protect the health of the city. The simple fact is that they don't see the virus as a thing that could affect them.

With all due respect BOTs that few quid in the paypacket on minimum wage could mean the difference between making rent, heating the house or feeding your kids. Its rather simplistic to say that they don't think the virus will affect them. Its more about what will affect them worse.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

let me just say, that if people were genuinely concerned about the virus getting out of control, they wouldn't be quibbling about a few quid in their pay packet for a couple of weeks, they would do what it takes to protect the health of the city. The simple fact is that they don't see the virus as a thing that could affect them.

That's a shocking generalisation.
I know of people on the minimum wage who couldn't support their homes or families on a cut of a third of their incomes.

Ignore the government saying no one should lose out for doing the right thing all you like.
It's grossly unfair.

Plus I'd guess most, if not near all, facing a possible cut in their income DO worry too about their own health, the health of others and lives of others.
Plus the lives of their own loved ones especially.

What about looking at it another way, just for a couple of weeks just ensure they don't lose out on their livelihoods, rather than actually force people to be penalised for doing the right thing.

Unbelievable.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

With all due respect BOTs that few quid in the paypacket on minimum wage could mean the difference between making rent, heating the house or feeding your kids. Its rather simplistic to say that they don't think the virus will affect them.

Exactly.
It's heartless to expect such a large cut to income.

When they can find endless funds for brexit costs and any other thing that arises.
Even a million to paint an aeroplane.

Paying track and trace consultants Ł 25,000 a DAY, as was revealed yesterday on news broadcasts.
Plenty funds for that then.
Not for those on minimum wages however.

[Ammi]

...just to expand out beyond the U.K...

'On the brink of disaster': Europe's Covid fight takes a turn for the worse...


“It’s not a word I’ve heard in a long, long time,” an elderly Paris resident said, leaving her apartment in mask and gloves for an early expedition to the shops. “A curfew. That’s for wartime, isn’t it? But in a way I suppose that’s what this is.”

Europe’s second coronavirus wave took a dramatic turn for the worse this week, forcing governments across the continent to make tough choices as more than a dozen countries reported their highest ever number of new infections.

In France, 18 million people in nine big cities risk a fine from Saturday if they are not at home by 9pm. In the Czech Republic, schools have closed and medical students are being enlisted to help doctors. All Dutch bars and restaurants are shut.

Austria, Belgium, the Czech Republic, France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Poland are among countries to have broken daily case records, prompting the World Health Organization to call for an “uncompromising” effort to stem the spread.

Unfortunately, that requires making all but impossible compromises.


...full article...

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/brink-disa...131425056.html

[bitontheslide]

I won't apologise for my opinions which I stand by 100% ...people have a right to disagree of course, but I am not being heartless, simply realistic

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I won't apologise for my opinions which I stand by 100% ...people have a right to disagree of course, but I am not being heartless, simply realistic

The thing is Bots if you think it's realistic for everyone to do without a portion of their pay (isn't it 1/3 at this point?) then you're not actually being realistic, and it's an opinion that can only be coming from a place of having enough income or savings to be able to take a pay cut and still handle the basics.

I could take a fairly hefty household income hit and still pay for the roof over our heads, basic bills and food at this point but as recently as 5 years ago that would not have been the case; a 1/3 pay reduction would have meant at the very least unpaid bills, and probably a risk of eviction, just to keep food on the table.

Realistically, people are going to be willing to take on quite a high degree of risk to avoid catastrophic life changes like that, it doesn't mean they don't think things are serious.