[UserSince2005]

Why do the people of manchester think they can hold the country hostage for money.
Yes we understand a large majority dont want to work and thats why you have no money.
Sit down you aint important.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Cherie

What did you mean by being deprogrammed? ..what views of mine have changed by moving ..please explain how you know anything about my views when I was 17 and my views now 30 years later and how they have changed ..that’s some gift right there

What I believe you are suggesting is you are the one with the heart and passion and empathy...am I right? maybe I have misinterpreted your deprogrammed comment, if I have I am all ears for your explanation

And if you do answer dont mention me, I'm not up for discussion thank you.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Cherie

The 60 million is still on the table... confirmed on the news this morning

He should take that.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I heard that the government are now going to bypass Burnham and talk to the manchester area leaders about funding, makes sense as he is being an ass

He certainly is and is playing the political card, we havent got a bottomless pot,we need to do our best and help as much as possible, as if Boris himself wants to piss off all the people who voted for him,it doesnt make sense,imo he is doing what he thinks will help in the long run,we cant just dish out money willy nilly because some want more,that's the problem ,people want more all the time, if i was him I would just tell people to get on with it and sod the outcome all the armchair critics have so much to say about how things should be done but no one has offered a solution as yet, yes,we all want more, but sometimes it's just not the best thing to do.hopefully it wont be long for Manchester,I do feel for them,my nephew lives there and his job has just gone,so I so sympathise but they were offered money.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

The sad thing is Kate is that the public will give him a second term as PM despite stuff like this.

Yes very likely Mock.
Out of selfishness and possible heartlessness as sadly that's where it seems, particular parts of England have moved to have as their decisions with voting.

However, more people now again are losing their lives unnecessarily, the SAGE advice of a circuit breaker, would have prevented some deaths of loved ones now, and those to come in weeks ahead, from not doing a circuit breaker..
A circuit breaker would have reduced the likely hospital admissions too.
Across the Country.

Now to some in the Country, deaths of others loved ones are irrelevant and since they're elderly in the main, would have been likely to lose their lives anyway.
So there's no point in trying to reason with that fixed mindset.

These new unnecessary deaths come on top of the deaths previously brought about by this government's scandalous handling of PPE, testing and the Care homes disgrace.

Yet as you say, this deceitful dangerous PM will still get votes.
Even moreso now, with his dictatorial stance now.
I'm surprised he hasn't found a way to remove parliamentary authority and elections altogether.

Of course he has crushingly, 4 years left still.
Although I agree with Ammi, he may want out.
He has had his ambition of becoming PM and won an election.

The next one will be harder to win as he did in December 2019.
He won't want to be seen as on the way out..
He may well want out.
I wish he did, he's the worst PM in my view, we've ever had.
He's not up to the challenge and job at all.
Plus his hard-line, uncompromising and his lip service empathy is nauseating.

This offer was not stated as being still there, when he spoke yesterday.
Why did HE not say it was when asked???
Andy Burnham, who I'd believe any day of the week over this disgracefully deceitful PM.
Wants the offer in writing WITH ALL it's conditions detailed too.

So why won't the government do that???

This area of Greater Manchester is a mass of 2.8 million individuals, many of whom are people whose lives and livelihoods will be hit badly and cruelly.

This PM has at present lost the trust and even goodwill of a great number who had gone with him before.
Now he's kicked them in the teeth with his procrastinating, his deceit, his confusion on rules, which even he seemed to have no clue on, yet he had to approve them.

Then his pulling the plug on the right support that should be in place.
Totally out of line with his original, '' no one must lose out for doing the right thing''.
That's exciting what he's creating in Greater Manchester, it's not just Manchester city itself.

Yet as you say, the votes will likely see him win again.
Although not in the way he did last year.
There's ever growing numbers of those who've lost loved ones unnecessarily.
He REFUSES to meet those grieving loved ones too.

An inquiry I hope will expose the false charts, false statistics, the deceit and lies and especially the unnecessary deaths he and this detestable government allowed to come into play.

Which is why, I think Ammi has a point, he may not want to be around for all that coming about when the s..t hits the fan of the things HE and his government could have avoided, could have protected and caused to happen as losses of lives too of Care staff, the elderly and those with long term health conditions..
What a record, yet he claims success in dealing with this.

More deceit, sickeningly lip service and sheer hard-line heartlessness.

Yet, yes, there's those who won't give a damn about the losses of others loved ones lives as long as they haven't been affected.
What a sad, in my view, Country particularly England has become from a proportion of its voters.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

He should take that.

He will likely WHEN he gets it in writing and it's there along with the detailed conditions of it too.

Your PM hasn't done that, he wouldn't even say it WAS still on the table as it was originally at that press conference when asked directly.

What further deceitful dealing is he possibly adding to the conditions of it still supposedly being on the table.

Why is it on the table anyway..
Why as the government imposing tier 3 on the 2.8 million on Greater Manchester.
Why hadn't he just announced that 60 million with the tier 3 imposed restrictions anyway.

Why only originally announce around 22 million.

He doesn't like questions, he thinks people are gullible that they'll take his word.
His words are full of deceit and are meaningless.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Yes very likely Mock.
Out of selfishness and possible heartlessness as sadly that's where it seems, particular parts of England have moved to have as their decisions with voting.

However, more people now again are losing their lives unnecessarily, the SAGE advice of a circuit breaker, would have prevented some deaths of loved ones now, and those to come in weeks ahead, from not doing a circuit breaker..
A circuit breaker would have reduced the likely hospital admissions too.
Across the Country.

Now to some in the Country, deaths of others loved ones are irrelevant and since they're elderly in the main, would have been likely to lose their lives anyway.
So there's no point in trying to reason with that fixed mindset.

These new unnecessary deaths come on top of the deaths previously brought about by this government's scandalous handling of PPE, testing and the Care homes disgrace.

Yet as you say, this deceitful dangerous PM will still get votes.
Even moreso now, with his dictatorial stance now.
I'm surprised he hasn't found a way to remove parliamentary authority and elections altogether.

Of course he has crushingly, 4 years left still.
Although I agree with Ammi, he may want out.
He has had his ambition of becoming PM and won an election.

The next one will be harder to win as he did in December 2019.
He won't want to be seen as on the way out..
He may well want out.
I wish he did, he's the worst PM in my view, we've ever had.
He's not up to the challenge and job at all.
Plus his hard-line, uncompromising and his lip service empathy is nauseating.

This offer was not stated as being still there, when he spoke yesterday.
Why did HE not say it was when asked???
Andy Burnham, who I'd believe any day of the week over this disgracefully deceitful PM.
Wants the offer in writing WITH ALL it's conditions detailed too.

So why won't the government do that???

This area of Greater Manchester is a mass of 2.8 million individuals, many of whom are people whose lives and livelihoods will be hit badly and cruelly.

This PM has at present lost the trust and even goodwill of a great number who had gone with him before.
Now he's kicked them in the teeth with his procrastinating, his deceit, his confusion on rules, which even he seemed to have no clue on, yet he had to approve them.

Then his pulling the plug on the right support that should be in place.
Totally out of line with his original, '' no one must lose out for doing the right thing''.
That's exciting what he's creating in Greater Manchester, it's not just Manchester city itself.

Yet as you say, the votes will likely see him win again.
Although not in the way he did last year.
There's ever growing numbers of those who've lost loved ones unnecessarily.
He REFUSES to meet those grieving loved ones too.

An inquiry I hope will expose the false charts, false statistics, the deceit and lies and especially the unnecessary deaths he and this detestable government allowed to come into play.

Which is why, I think Ammi has a point, he may not want to be around for all that coming about when the s..t hits the fan of the things HE and his government could have avoided, could have protected and caused to happen as losses of lives too of Care staff, the elderly and those with long term health conditions..
What a record, yet he claims success in dealing with this.

More deceit, sickeningly lip service and sheer hard-line heartlessness.

Yet, yes, there's those who won't give a damn about the losses of others loved ones lives as long as they haven't been affected.
What a sad, in my view, Country particularly England has become from a proportion of its voters.

Jonathan Van Tam confirmed in the briefing yesterday that a circuit breaker makes no sense for people in areas of low infection, so for people living in parts of Norfolk and Cornwall, Pembrokshire and other areas like that, it makes no sense at all

He did say the offer was still there, he said they had to be fair to Liverpool and Lancashire and offer a similar amount of funding, it was superseded by the tweet showing Andy getting the news on someones phone, so that seems to have been what stuck rather than what was actually being said

ICU bed capacity in Manchester is at a dangerous level that is the takeway we should have from this, and yes that will unfortunatley translate to unnecessary deaths

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

What did you mean by being deprogrammed? ..what views of mine have changed by moving ..please explain how you know anything about my views when I was 17 and my views now 30 years later and how they have changed ..that’s some gift right there

What I believe you are suggesting is you are the one with the heart and passion and empathy...am I right? maybe I have misinterpreted your deprogrammed comment, if I have I am all ears for your explanation

Not that I owe you an explanation... I didn't mention anything about passion or empathy? You suggested there's a difference in the way people south interact, like the person you mentioned (happy now?) You are not from there either... So at some point you adopted those social norms.
That's what I meant, that if there's some distinct difference in behaviours, if there's a process to go through to comply?
I called it deprogramming, it wasn't an insult just a word to suggest a transition from one way of thinking to another.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Jonathan Van Tam confirmed in the briefing yesterday that a circuit breaker makes no sense for people in areas of low infection, so for people living in parts of Norfolk and Cornwall, Pembrokshire and other areas like that, it makes no sense at all

He did say the offer was still there, he said they had to be fair to Liverpool and Lancashire and offer a similar amount of funding, it was superseded by the tweet showing Andy getting the news on someones phone, so that seems to have been what stuck rather than what was actually being said

ICU bed capacity in Manchester is at a dangerous level that is the takeway we should have from this, and yes that will unfortunatley translate to unnecessary deaths

Sorry, you and I will never agree on that.
Way over half of England is in restrictions.
If more areas go in as they will as the government is looking at other areas to do the same now.

The science called for a circuit breaker, Chris Whity stated there was no certainty tier 3 restrictions would be enough either.

The Country is either all in this together or it's not .the virus knows no borders.
Those areas aren't hit YET.

The attitudes of them in we're alright jack, the rest of you get on with it and suffer.
Sounds frankly awful.

What figure did Johnson state in the press conference.
When asked if the offer of 60 million was still there, he DIDN'T answer.
No way did he.
All he revealed was 22 million.
Why, if it was still there.
I say again.
He took over, he imposed tier 3 without agreement, he could have announced that 60 million at the same time.
He didn't, WHY,??
He would be imposing the tier 3, giving 22 million but NOT the 60 million.
Pure deceit in my view, not yours, certainly my view however.

Liverpool has a vastly lower population than the 2.8 million residents of Greater Manchester too.
Anyway, I know who I'd trust.
You can rust Johnson's word.
That's your right but I never ever will.

Even if I'd lost no one to this virus, his handling of this and the Greater Manchester issue too.
I'd have thought catastrophic.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Sorry, you and I will never agree on that.
Way over half of England is in restrictions.
If more areas go in as they will as the government is looking at other areas to do the same now.

The science called for a circuit breaker, Chris Whity stated there was no certainty tier 3 restrictions would be enough either.

The Country is either all in this together or it's not .the virus knows no borders.
Those areas aren't hit YET.

The attitudes of them in we're alright jack, the rest of you get on with it and suffer.
Sounds frankly awful.

What figure did Johnson state in the press conference.
When asked if the offer of 60 million was still there, he DIDN'T answer.
No way did he.
All he revealed was 22 million.
Why, if it was still there.
I say again.
He took over, he imposed tier 3 without agreement, he could have announced that 60 million at the same time.
He didn't, WHY,??
He would be imposing the tier 3, giving 22 million but NOT the 60 million.
Pure deceit in my view, not yours, certainly my view however.

Liverpool has a vastly lower population than the 2.8 million residents of Greater Manchester too.
Anyway, I know who I'd trust.
You can rust Johnson's word.
That's your right but I never ever will.

Even if I'd lost no one to this virus, his handling of this and the Greater Manchester issue too.
I'd have thought catastrophic.

The areas are hit YET exactly so why lock then down when there is no need to?

Some areas will never be hit badly purely due to their social make up and and population density

Personally I think Gt Man is beyond Tier 3 and should be locked down at this stage, everything closed including schools

[bitontheslide]

where i am in the South East, our infection rate is tiny compared to the likes of Manchester. We don't need to be locked down. If half the country have constipation you don't give the whole country laxative. That's what people that want a national circuit breaker seem to think is correct

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

where i am in the South East, our infection rate is tiny compared to the likes of Manchester. We don't need to be locked down. If half the country have constipation you don't give the whole country laxative. That's what people that want a national circuit breaker seem to think is correct

great analogy, spat my tea out

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Sorry, you and I will never agree on that.
Way over half of England is in restrictions.
If more areas go in as they will as the government is looking at other areas to do the same now.

The science called for a circuit breaker, Chris Whity stated there was no certainty tier 3 restrictions would be enough either.

The Country is either all in this together or it's not .the virus knows no borders.
Those areas aren't hit YET.

The attitudes of them in we're alright jack, the rest of you get on with it and suffer.
Sounds frankly awful.

What figure did Johnson state in the press conference.
When asked if the offer of 60 million was still there, he DIDN'T answer.
No way did he.
All he revealed was 22 million.
Why, if it was still there.
I say again.
He took over, he imposed tier 3 without agreement, he could have announced that 60 million at the same time.
He didn't, WHY,??
He would be imposing the tier 3, giving 22 million but NOT the 60 million.
Pure deceit in my view, not yours, certainly my view however.

Liverpool has a vastly lower population than the 2.8 million residents of Greater Manchester too.
Anyway, I know who I'd trust.
You can rust Johnson's word.
That's your right but I never ever will.

Even if I'd lost no one to this virus, his handling of this and the Greater Manchester issue too.
I'd have thought catastrophic.

Excellent post Joey agree with all of that. What I can't understand is why there's suddenly a need for negotiations? Surely they are aware of requirements as they have that info from the initial lockdown. How can there be 'offers' to be accepted or rejected.
This isn't some shady backstreet deal, it's the PM's job to ensure continuity of business and services. If you are going to segregate swathes of the country there has to be some concrete contingency planning.
Is it not Sunaks remit to use some kind of formulae to work out what is needed based on population? This carrot and stick approach is crazy.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Cherie

The areas are hit YET exactly so why lock then down when there is no need to?

Some areas will never be hit badly purely due to their social make up and and population density

Personally I think Gt Man is beyond Tier 3 and should be locked down at this stage, everything closed including schools

As I said.
You and I don't and will.never agree with this.

The science advice on September 21st was to do a circuit breaker across the Country.

That would have brought down infection rates, hospital admissions and yes deaths of loved one too unnecessarily, ( not that that's much of a consideration of government at present with no real official support or protection for those who want it who are most vulnerable to deaths).

That was the advice.
This PM rejected it.

Ask the science why they felt all areas should have been In a circuit breaker from their advice in I'd have taken that advice.
You wouldn't because some areas aren't yet as badly hit as others.

I'll stick with they should have taken the advice in September, to save infections, hospital admissions and unnecessary deaths too

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

where i am in the South East, our infection rate is tiny compared to the likes of Manchester. We don't need to be locked down. If half the country have constipation you don't give the whole country laxative. That's what people that want a national circuit breaker seem to think is correct

You can't catch constipation so that analogy is sh*t

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

where i am in the South East, our infection rate is tiny compared to the likes of Manchester. We don't need to be locked down. If half the country have constipation you don't give the whole country laxative. That's what people that want a national circuit breaker seem to think is correct

I think constipation is far from a comparison to a virus unseen that can kill so many

Not many die from constipation.
I'm sure those who've lost loved ones to this virus will.be laughing their heads off.

Unbelievable.

[Toy Soldier]

Do people realise how little money £22 million (or even £60 million) is in terms of government spending? There's literally no reason for it to be so low other than political games / pure spite. People saying that the government "doesn't have an endless pot of money" really aren't comprehending what the scope of government spending is...

To use an analogy - the situation in Manchester is like a kid asking their dad who has thousands in the bank for £1 and the dad saying "Sorry I can only afford 20p".

[Liam-]

He was more than happy to spend money on an imaginary bridge, water cannons that were never used, hundreds of millions on Brexit propaganda, millions on commemorative coins that had to be scrapped because they completely failed at their job, he can hand endless millions out to his cohorts for official government contracts, without any hesitation whatsoever right in our faces, he can give tax payer money to random women he’s having an affair with to help her business.

But give a little bit extra to a city that needs it to help the people he governs? Suddenly he’s frugal? Suddenly the country can’t afford it? Suddenly the leaves have fallen off of the magic money tree?

I actually hate the Tories on a level I can’t quite describe, especially ones like ‘good ole Boris’

[Kizzy]

I still don't get the idea of 'offers' ... every hour the government stall on this is a dereliction of duty.
They know what is required, just do your damn jobs and support the areas that are severely affected!

What are the ' negotiations' for?

[bitontheslide]

it's not the government stalling, in this case it was Burnham. He made it an issue rather than ramming the message home that people should be social distancing. He is supposedly responsible for the people of Manchester, so why didn't he make it his duty to get people to social distance. The guy is an ass

[parmnion]

The words circuit breaker were not even invented in september

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

it's not the government stalling, in this case it was Burnham. He made it an issue rather than ramming the message home that people should be social distancing. He is supposedly responsible for the people of Manchester, so why didn't he make it his duty to get people to social distance. The guy is an ass

He didn’t stall, he asked for an amount of money they the city needed and Boris played games because he’s a cock

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

it's not the government stalling, in this case it was Burnham. He made it an issue rather than ramming the message home that people should be social distancing. He is supposedly responsible for the people of Manchester, so why didn't he make it his duty to get people to social distance. The guy is an ass

When has any mayor not advocated social distancing?

Only an ass would suggest millions of people suffer due to politicians quibbling instead of taking swift decisive action.
That's their job, why ask the mayors what they need for continuity in tier 3 if they have no intention of going over a set amount? Just give them that and stop this charade.

Even now there's this silly ' the deal is still on the table' .. what deal? What have Manchester got to bargain with? Nothing, they're already in tier 3 and covid is rife... that is nothe Burnhams fault.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by parmnion

The words circuit breaker were not even invented in september

Wrong..

What is a circuit breaker?

The term 'circuit breaker' started cropping up in lockdown discussions around the middle of September as experts suggested that a short, sharp halt in the spread of the virus could help to curb infection rates.*

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.man...t-19102740.amp

[AnnieK]

There are loads of signs everywhere telling people to social distance. Unfortunately, Andy Burnham can't physically force people to do it. It's a big mess but we have to get it under control and I am sure we will and I'm also sure it will spread elsewhere and we certainly won't be the last area locked down. Will be interesting to see how much money other, more southerly regions get to see if the North is held in leas regard.

The people of Manchester will get through this....we are in for a rough ride but we're made of tough stuff up here...so to Boris and the Tory party.