[Cherie]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Cutting carbs or ditching the Mars bars.

As a diabetic who monitors and controls her sugars..I suggest you cut the carbs.

As a matter of interest Smudgie have you cut them out altogether?

[bitontheslide]

Many carbs are good for you and are required by the body to function correctly. Also carbs differ very greatly in type. Things like oats and lentils are extremely good for you, stop you feeling hungry for longer and don't spike your blood sugar levels

[Zizu]

I gather the latest studies are suggesting that fat isn’t that bad for you compared to the real danger ... sugar .

Sugar is apparently the real KILLER out there .

Sadly it’s so addictive and so difficult to reduce dramatically never mind exclude totally .




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You're advocating cutting out chip butties, pasta salads.. they are meals. I'm suggesting stopping snacking, there's nothing wrong with that. There is lots of hidden sugar in juices, fizzy pop and alcohol too so you don't have to sit eating Mars bars all day, many people drink more sugar than they eat.

I agree on the fizzy juice I think that's one for everyone regardless, too many people drink it like water when really it should be an occasional thing, like with a meal out or whatever. And with alcohol I obviously agree for a whole host of health reasons both physical and otherwise. I'm not 100% anti-alcohol I think it's fine to have socially on special occasions (a birthday party, a wedding etc.) but I really think people "drinking for the sake of drinking" is one of the UK's biggest health problems. That's not a battle worth talking about though, I've come to accept that people love their 2 daily glasses of wine/weekend binge/both and will never see an issue with it.

When you talk about cutting out sugar though - what about fructose? Because I think "chip butty vs Mars bar" is a bit of a non-starter as an argument... No one thinks either is a good food choice... Surely.

But what about a bowl of pasta, vs an apple and a banana?

The latter is full of fructose and many who are cutting sugars would cut out fruit entirely.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Cherie

As a matter of interest Smudgie have you cut them out altogether?

No, everything in moderation.
Slow release carbs plus fruit and veg.
The size of your meal makes a massive difference as well.
Not a Mads bar fan but quite partial to a chocolate orange occasionally.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I agree on the fizzy juice I think that's one for everyone regardless, too many people drink it like water when really it should be an occasional thing, like with a meal out or whatever. And with alcohol I obviously agree for a whole host of health reasons both physical and otherwise. I'm not 100% anti-alcohol I think it's fine to have socially on special occasions (a birthday party, a wedding etc.) but I really think people "drinking for the sake of drinking" is one of the UK's biggest health problems. That's not a battle worth talking about though, I've come to accept that people love their 2 daily glasses of wine/weekend binge/both and will never see an issue with it.

When you talk about cutting out sugar though - what about fructose? Because I think "chip butty vs Mars bar" is a bit of a non-starter as an argument... No one thinks either is a good food choice... Surely.

But what about a bowl of pasta, vs an apple and a banana?

The latter is full of fructose and many who are cutting sugars would cut out fruit entirely.

Fruit is sugar the only benefits are the fibre, potassium and such so you would be cutting off your nose to spite your face to give those up entirely whereas all other sweeties and sugar laden snacks have nothing to offer.

You wouldn't sit and eat a whole bunch of bananas would you? Earlier you suggested yoghurt as part of your diet plan, to me this isn't really beneficial unless containing live culture it's just more sugar and more of a snack than part of a meal.

When considering fruit and yoghurt there are other benefits to offset the sugar, and if not snacking or drinking sugar pre diabetics can justify the trade. For me this is the perfect substitute , you're less likely to feel you're denied everything if things like the occasional piece of fruit or yoghurt is tolerated rather than go cold turkey.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by smudgie

No, everything in moderation.
Slow release carbs plus fruit and veg.
The size of your meal makes a massive difference as well.
Not a Mads bar fan but quite partial to a chocolate orange occasionally.

Yes I would say that is the best approach

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by smudgie

No, everything in moderation.
Slow release carbs plus fruit and veg.
The size of your meal makes a massive difference as well.
Not a Mads bar fan but quite partial to a chocolate orange occasionally.

By the same token if you were partial to a chip butty occasionally then you would be able to factor that in and it not be detrimental smudgie?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Fruit is sugar the only benefits are the fibre, potassium and such so you would be cutting off your nose to spite your face to give those up entirely whereas all other sweeties and sugar laden snacks have nothing to offer.



You wouldn't sit and eat a whole bunch of bananas would you? Earlier you suggested yoghurt as part of your diet plan, to me this isn't really beneficial unless containing live culture it's just more sugar and more of a snack than part of a meal.



When considering fruit and yoghurt there are other benefits to offset the sugar, and if not snacking or drinking sugar pre diabetics can justify the trade. For me this is the perfect substitute , you're less likely to feel you're denied everything if things like the occasional piece of fruit or yoghurt is tolerated rather than go cold turkey.

Hmm. To be fair when it comes to not being denied things I'm more a fan of the 6/1 or 5/2 rule (aka eat what you want at the weekend even if it's a full domino's pizza and a family size bar of chocolate) BUT that's obviously not for people with diabetes or pre-diabetes, just as a general rule... So not so relevant in this thread, I suppose. I think it works well for people who generally want to eat healthily but still not feel frustrated with denial - the temptation to be unhealthy isn't so difficult to power through if it's just a case of "NO! You can have that on Saturday..."

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Hmm. To be fair when it comes to not being denied things I'm more a fan of the 6/1 or 5/2 rule (aka eat what you want at the weekend even if it's a full domino's pizza and a family size bar of chocolate) BUT that's obviously not for people with diabetes or pre-diabetes, just as a general rule... So not so relevant in this thread, I suppose. I think it works well for people who generally want to eat healthily but still not feel frustrated with denial - the temptation to be unhealthy isn't so difficult to power through if it's just a case of "NO! You can have that on Saturday..."

That's probably how people become pre diabetic in the first place, binge eating and wildly spiking blood sugars. It's the opposite of everything else you've advocated in the thread :/

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

By the same token if you were partial to a chip butty occasionally then you would be able to factor that in and it not be detrimental smudgie?

Yes, of course Kizzy.
Moderation s the magic word.

[Zizu]

Well the wife says I’m excluding bread from my diet starting today up to Christmas ...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

That's probably how people become pre diabetic in the first place, binge eating and wildly spiking blood sugars. It's the opposite of everything else you've advocated in the thread :/

It's not what I would advocate for people who are at Type-2/Pre-diabetes risk or are already overweight, it's perfectly safe for people who are in shape/good health and want to stay that way but also want to be able to "let their hair down".

Healthy people's blood sugar is self-regulating and doesn't spike. That's sort of the point, really.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's not what I would advocate for people who are at Type-2/Pre-diabetes risk or are already overweight, it's perfectly safe for people who are in shape/good health and want to stay that way but also want to be able to "let their hair down".

Healthy people's blood sugar is self-regulating and doesn't spike. That's sort of the point, really.

I'm sorry I don't agree, binge eating or drinking at weekends will tax the body, however healthy you are if you over indulge then eventually it will have a detrimental affect.
Not everyone would class that behaviour as healthy.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I'm sorry I don't agree, binge eating or drinking at weekends will tax the body, however healthy you are if you over indulge then eventually it will have a detrimental affect.
Not everyone would class that behaviour as healthy.

I didn't say that the behaviour is healthy, it certainly isn't optimal, I said it's safe for healthy people.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I didn't say that the behaviour is healthy, it certainly isn't optimal, I said it's safe for healthy people.

And how do healthy people become unhealthy?... They binge eat at weekends. That kind of behaviour isn't safe for anyone long term.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

And how do healthy people become unhealthy?... They binge eat at weekends. That kind of behaviour isn't safe for anyone long term.

Fit and healthy people who are active and mostly eating healthily don't go to bed on a Saturday night trim and wake up fat with diabetes... We can't babystep people all of the time; people know when they're feeling less fit and gaining weight in plenty of time to act on that before it becomes an actual health problem (should they want to).

You're essentially saying that even fit, healthy weight people shouldn't enjoy unhealthy food... Ever. Weren't you criticising me for "extreme" diet ideas before? I can't think of anything more extreme than insisting that already-healthy individuals can't indulge occasionally. That also IMO is the absolute quickest route to frustration, broken willpower and total abandonment of general healthy eating.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Fit and healthy people who are active and mostly eating healthily don't go to bed on a Saturday night trim and wake up fat with diabetes... We can't babystep people all of the time; people know when they're feeling less fit and gaining weight in plenty of time to act on that before it becomes an actual health problem (should they want to).

You're essentially saying that even fit, healthy weight people shouldn't enjoy unhealthy food... Ever. Weren't you criticising me for "extreme" diet ideas before? I can't think of anything more extreme than insisting that already-healthy individuals can't indulge occasionally. That also IMO is the absolute quickest route to frustration, broken willpower and total abandonment of general healthy eating.

Yes.. I'm saying that if healthy people eat unhealthily 2 days out of 7 it will, over time, not overnight cause issues. I don't agree with you saying healthy people's blood sugars don't spike.. of course they will, if you eat well 5 days then eat a massive pizza and family size bar of chocolate that would cause a spike.

Lean healthy people are not wired differently, if you eat large amounts of food and sugar your blood sugars will spike. For me eating silly amounts of unhealthy foods like that some days will lead to craving those foods other days too and is long term not a good idea.

As smudgie said, and was my point from the start if you want a slice of pizza (or chip butty) or a bit of chocolate have some... denying yourself all week then eating the whole thing is counterproductive and basically is the bad eating habits that lead to health issues. And is effectively an example of broken willpower, as had you not denied yourself all week you perhaps wouldn't feel the need to eat a family sized bar on Saturday out of frustration?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yes.. I'm saying that if healthy people eat unhealthily 2 days out of 7 it will, over time, not overnight cause issues. I don't agree with you saying healthy people's blood sugars don't spike.. of course they will, if you eat well 5 days then eat a massive pizza and family size bar of chocolate that would cause a spike.



Lean healthy people are not wired differently, if you eat large amounts of food and sugar your blood sugars will spike. For me eating silly amounts of unhealthy foods like that some days will lead to craving those foods other days too and is long term not a good idea.



As smudgie said, and was my point from the start if you want a slice of pizza (or chip butty) or a bit of chocolate have some... denying yourself all week then eating the whole thing is counterproductive and basically is the bad eating habits that lead to health issues. And is effectively an example of broken willpower, as had you not denied yourself all week you perhaps wouldn't feel the need to eat a family sized bar on Saturday out of frustration?

Only if you're looking at it from the perspective of "binging out of frustration", rather than simply "not having to think about it too much on those days". Realistically if you're generally eating well you're not going to eat a large pizza and a family sized bar of chocolate without getting full or feeling sick, the point was more to illustrate that its OK to not think about this stuff for a couple of days a week, dine out with your family and order what you want (or a take-away in Covid times) without pouring over the menus for the healthy option, and have some snacks with a movie on the evening.

To be fair, I can also accept that my viewpoint on this has its limits as a 6'2 well built sexy feller; my calorie intake is relatively high as standard, I don't really need to count them at all and so that doesn't come into the equation like it would for, say, a 5'2 female. The difference isn't in eating more at weekends, it's just in not having to "be healthy" with fats, proteins, fruit & veg and nuts/seeds/pulses and swapping them out for naughty stuff. Like refined sugar and dirty empty carbs. Trough of macaroni cheese and a pack of tangfastics. Mmm.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Only if you're looking at it from the perspective of "binging out of frustration", rather than simply "not having to think about it too much on those days". Realistically if you're generally eating well you're not going to eat a large pizza and a family sized bar of chocolate without getting full or feeling sick, the point was more to illustrate that its OK to not think about this stuff for a couple of days a week, dine out with your family and order what you want (or a take-away in Covid times) without pouring over the menus for the healthy option, and have some snacks with a movie on the evening.

To be fair, I can also accept that my viewpoint on this has its limits as a 6'2 well built sexy feller; my calorie intake is relatively high as standard, I don't really need to count them at all and so that doesn't come into the equation like it would for, say, a 5'2 female. The difference isn't in eating more at weekends, it's just in not having to "be healthy" with fats, proteins, fruit & veg and nuts/seeds/pulses and swapping them out for naughty stuff. Like refined sugar and dirty empty carbs. Trough of macaroni cheese and a pack of tangfastics. Mmm.

Right, so we've gone from what's OK for pre diabetics, to healthy people, to you. OK, you do you.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Right, so we've gone from what's OK for pre diabetics, to healthy people, to you. OK, you do you.

No, once again I'd reiterate that for all healthy people the most sensible option is to follow a healthy diet most of the time but allow some leeway for "not thinking about it" every so often, and that it's generally easier to maintain that way than daily vigilance. I think it's easier to say "should I have this? Hmm OK it's the weekend" than "should I have this? Hmm well let me think about what else I've had today..." every day.

We don't have to agree .