[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

How is taking the knee letting it go unnoticed?

It's doing exactly what you suggest, publicly condemning it.

The fact that fans were booing will make the headlines not that the players took the iknee.

People need to see and hear Racism so it can be challenged.

[bots]

Taking the knee does nothing for me personally, but as long as there is racism in football, i see nothing wrong with drawing attention and support for the cause. The booing just shows that there is still a long way to go

[user104658]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Footballers receive a disgusting amount of money for kicking a ball when you have someone on minimum wage cleaning up another persons p1ss and sh1t



Stop the one knee bollox and donate money from their wages to actually fight racism in their local communitys.



Going down on s knee for a few seconds is not going to change anyone’s life.

I agree with this actually Sheriff; I find the signals, salutes, symbols, chants and mantras utterly meaningless if they're being done in lieu of more meaningful words and actions. In fact, it plays into something else that I'm inherently against (tribal behaviours, group thinking, collectivism) and thus its not something I'd ever do. I wouldn't boo it, though. That's just more of the same to be honest.

That said, football fans never STOP singing, chanting and group gesturing so it's a bit hypocritical in this case, and I imagine most of them are booing because they don't like the message, rather than the method.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

The fact that fans were booing will make the headlines not that the players took the iknee.

People need to see and hear Racism so it can be challenged.

Without the players taking the knee there wouldn't be something to boo. So, a poor defence of racism there.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

How is it?

Oh is this the bit when you pretend racism isn't an issue?

Not interested, Oliver.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Without the players taking the knee there wouldn't be something to boo. So, a poor defence of racism there.

There is no defence for racism but taking the knee won’t stop racism.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

There is no defence for racism but taking the knee won’t stop racism.

Nobody's suggested it will.

If yoy've contorted a reason that the booing is a positive thing for anti-racism campaigning then there is no issue with taking the knee.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Nobody's suggested it will.

If yoy've contorted a reason that the booing is a positive thing for anti-racism campaigning then there is no issue with taking the knee.

You said I had a poor defence for racism I’m not defending racism I’m saying when acts of racism are shown it does more for the fact racism is unacceptable that people taking the knee.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

You said I had a poor defence for racism I’m not defending racism I’m saying when acts of racism are shown it does more for the fact racism is unacceptable that people taking the knee.

Yes, it is a poor defence. "Let it carry on so we know it's bad".

[Nicky91]

it is kinda unacceptable those fans are booing their own players for just doing a good thing, being against racism


i hope the UEFA hasn't seen this (cuz if so, and they are very much anti-racism, i can see the team being fined for the actions of the supporters, since UEFA wants best behaviour possible from all fans)


chants, singing, cheering is allowed, as long as it's not racist, homophobic or insulting with diseases or rude

[jet]

Originally Posted by Shaun

"Both responses are called freedom of expression" - in an environment catered to by a business. The football governing bodies are well within their rights to dictate what is and isn't allowed within a club's stadium, and if Millwall had any sense, they'll be issuing bans to idiots who follow suit. To even compare the two "responses" is just... alarming, though. One is a quiet gesture, the other is aggressive noise. One calls for racial equality, the other can't get to grips with what that means and reacts angrily to things they don't understand.

No moral comparison was being made. The footballers have a right to take the knee and some spectators have a right to show their disapproval.You don’t have to agree with peoples actions or opinions to believe they have the right to express them. Freedom of expression and freedom of speech (within the law or rules of a particular entity) are as vital to a democratic society as the right to strive for equality for all its citizens.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Yes, it is a poor defence. "Let it carry on so we know it's bad".

There is no point having a conversation with you I shall be out and about today as always treating every one I meet as equal regardless of their skin colour.

[jet]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

There is no point having a conversation with you I shall be out and about today as always treating every one I meet as equal regardless of their skin colour.

Well said sheriff. Have a good day!

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

There is no point having a conversation with you I shall be out and about today as always treating every one I meet as equal regardless of their skin colour.

You're incapable it seems. How YOU treat other people was never the discussion.

Bye.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by jet

Well said sheriff. Have a good day!

Obsessed.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by jet

No moral comparison was being made. The footballers have a right to take the knee and some spectators have a right to show their disapproval.You don’t have to agree with peoples actions or opinions to believe they have the right to express them. Freedom of expression and freedom of speech (within the law or rules of a particular entity) are as vital to a democratic society as the right to strive for equality for all its citizens.

Freedom of expression is not being able to be racist or support racism publicly and freely without consequence. Especially in someone else's space who do not tolerate it.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Shaun

The gesture is adopted by Kick It Out, so everyone booing it isn't even criticising BLM; they're criticising the ongoing football racism group. Not that I expect Millwall fans or your usuals on this thread to understand or care about such nuances.

Sadly the Millwall fans are playing to a negative stereotype that's associated with their club.

And personally I don't get why people are so against not wanting to chant racist stuff at a player. Unless you're (not you specifically) are a racist.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Footballers receive a disgusting amount of money for kicking a ball when you have someone on minimum wage cleaning up another persons p1ss and sh1t

Stop the one knee bollox and donate money from their wages to actually fight racism in their local communitys.

Going down on s knee for a few seconds is not going to change anyone’s life.

Lots of people earn a lot of money, having money doesn't mean you can't express support..it isn't only poor people who get to show solidarity. Why the suggestion they throw money at an issue that is so mired in fundamental bias from the grass roots?
As in the actions of government, the media, the police.. there is discrimination from the top down, how can one guy throwing a couple of thousand quid address and tackle subjects like Windrush, stop and search, deaths in custody, demonisation... they can't, he'll be mocked as a virtue signaller or SJW and nothing will change.

Footballers are people first, just like the piss and shiz cleaners, they want change but they are not the change..That's why we have policy and law makers, that's their job.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

What're they playing at, it's the UK, not 18th century America...

I’d honestly ban the whole crowd for the rest of the season .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Zizu

I’d honestly ban the whole crowd for the rest of the season .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

That's a bit harsh to the Millwall fans that didn't boo.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I agree with this actually Sheriff; I find the signals, salutes, symbols, chants and mantras utterly meaningless if they're being done in lieu of more meaningful words and actions. In fact, it plays into something else that I'm inherently against (tribal behaviours, group thinking, collectivism) and thus its not something I'd ever do. I wouldn't boo it, though. That's just more of the same to be honest.

That said, football fans never STOP singing, chanting and group gesturing so it's a bit hypocritical in this case, and I imagine most of them are booing because they don't like the message, rather than the method.

Historically how has any marginalised group facilitated change?
They have galvanised, protested, petitioned or in other way's adopted symbols of solidarity.

For me these have meaning, they are a precursor to real change and most progressive policies and systems of rights
we have today initially involved groups who garnered public support with chants and mantras.

So personally I think it's great to see higher profile people sending out this kind of message, they have a greater reach and fan base to raise awareness, this in turn puts pressure on the powers that be to address the status quo.

I agree that those booing aren't too bothered about the method shown here, as you say they just don't want to see support for this cause. We could suggest reasons why... but that would be speculation of course.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

That's a bit harsh to the Millwall fans that didn't boo.

They’ve tolerated all kinds of nonsense/abuse from their fellow fans for over 20 years.. maybe it’s time they did something about the problem themselves..

Presumably the ‘bad uns’ all have family , friends or work colleagues who go to the games and never cause any problems


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Oliver_W]

It's a shame there's not an organisation other than BLM for celebs to get behind. When they trigger violent riots after a black guy was shot for running at the cops with a knife, it's clear they just want an excuse to riot.

[Kizzy]

“The players have come out and said they don’t support the political aspect, but they do support the anti-discrimination aspect of it … The club does an enormous amount of work on anti-racism.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...d-says-eustice

[Tom4784]

Milwall supporters are a bunch of racist violent scum anyway. I don't even follow football but that club's reputation is just that gross.