[bots]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Comparing "life before the EU" to now is meaningless because globalisation and neoliberalism came post-eu. We could argue until the EU beef comes home about what role the EU plays in that, of course, but it doesn't really matter much - the important thing to point out is that the global economy, and even moreso the British economy, doesn't function in an even remotely similar way today as it did pre-80's so "how stuff was before" is totally irrelevant.

trade will continue, tariff free ... all the rest is politics, and peoples political preferences. There was never agreement in this area and never will be and thats why Tony Blair didnt ask for a referendum when we signed the Maastricht treaty. This is all pay back for that

[Withano]

Originally Posted by DouglasS

It was the public who voted brexit.. you can’t blame him for fulfilling democracy.

He has got a deal where we are not stuck to obligations, yet are still able to trade freely. Therefore the fact we still have fantastic trade links and deals with Europe speaks for how much better he has done, preventing a no deal that so many were scared of/ the left were saying was going to happen and how bad it’d be. Now he’s proved the left wrong people have gone back to blaming ‘Brexit’

Doesn’t actually answer anything. You were promised a life of luxury with more money in the economy and rainbows and kittens

Has any aspect of modern Britain improved because of this deal

...You’re gonna skirt around the question again aren’t you

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

trade will continue, tariff free ... all the rest is politics, and peoples political preferences. There was never agreement in this area and never will be and thats why Tony Blair didnt ask for a referendum when we signed the Maastricht treaty. This is all pay back for that

That's pretty rose-tinted. Boris Johnson said that no PM should ever sign up to an agreement that would allow the EU to impose tariffs, well this deal makes that a reality in the short to medium term, especially considering that the EU is always looking at ways to raise standards, and we are in a race to the bottom. It's tariff-free at the moment, but it won't be for long. The rest isn't political preference when it affects the daily lives of Uk citizens. No one voted to leave because it would cost jobs, shrink the economy, and raise the cost of living.

Political preference was never mentioned in amongst sunlit uplands, and funding the NHS. It's all a load of bollocks. It's a bad deal with real world consequences. That's a fact.

[user104658]

Covid offers an easy get out of jail free card for supporters, though.

"Brexit hasn't made anythibg better though has it."

"Well it WOULD have but Covid came along and ruined the economy so..."

Its sort of like a form of plausible deniability.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Covid offers an easy get out of jail free card for supporters, though.

"Brexit hasn't made anythibg better though has it."

"Well it WOULD have but Covid came along and ruined the economy so..."

Its sort of like a form of plausible deniability.

now that we have a trade deal in place, we will be reeling from covid, but there is considerable optimism from the economic experts that we will have a substantial bounce back this year.

I can only speak for my own business and this year was a very good year so it's not all doom and gloom, there are always some parts of the economy that flourish even in bad times

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

That's pretty rose-tinted. Boris Johnson said that no PM should ever sign up to an agreement that would allow the EU to impose tariffs, well this deal makes that a reality in the short to medium term, especially considering that the EU is always looking at ways to raise standards, and we are in a race to the bottom. It's tariff-free at the moment, but it won't be for long. The rest isn't political preference when it affects the daily lives of Uk citizens. No one voted to leave because it would cost jobs, shrink the economy, and raise the cost of living.

Political preference was never mentioned in amongst sunlit uplands, and funding the NHS. It's all a load of bollocks. It's a bad deal with real world consequences. That's a fact.

pushing your own opinions as fact is hardly debate now is it?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

pushing your own opinions as fact is hardly debate now is it?

The whole thread is based on an opinion not a fact so who cares?...

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

pushing your own opinions as fact is hardly debate now is it?

Not really. We already know enough about what was given away, and what we got in return. If you ever had any interest at all in the debate you could explain why I'm wrong, but we both know you don't have that interest.

Even in that post I gave facts that should be easily disprovable to a debate-minded guy like yourself.

[Tom4784]

We're adults here, we should have the reading comprehension to differentiate between someone saying a fact and someone stating an opinion. Attacking someone's posts by falsely suggesting they are stating an opinion as fact says more about the person doing it then the posts they attack.

Perhaps we should clearly signpost when something is a fact or an opinion for the benefit of those lacking in basic reading comprehension.

[bots]

no reading comprehension is required when the text states "It's a bad deal with real world consequences. That's a fact."



Not getting at slim, just pointing out the absurdity of saying something is an opinion when its clearly stated as a fact

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

trade will continue, tariff free ... all the rest is politics, and peoples political preferences. There was never agreement in this area and never will be and thats why Tony Blair didnt ask for a referendum when we signed the Maastricht treaty. This is all pay back for that

Tony Blair didn't sign the Maastricht treaty, that was the Cons and Major.

Tony Blair wasn't even leader of the Labour party at the Maastricht treaty time.

All the treaties signed most under the Cons in their 18 years of unbroken power, were never put to the UK in a referendum.

There were amendments later as other Nations joined.
Blair definitely was in favour of joining the Euro too.
Which he wasn't given the green light to do by his then Chancellor Gordon Brown.

However the whole concept of the Maastricht treaty was in 1992, when Major was PM.
In fact he had a nightmare time of things apparently then from his own backbenchers.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

no reading comprehension is required when the text states "It's a bad deal with real world consequences. That's a fact."



Not getting at slim, just pointing out the absurdity of saying something is an opinion when its clearly stated as a fact

It doesn't really matter, I don't take something as a fact unless it can be backed up. Pretty much everyone is stating an opinion in this thread, it's only when certain parties have nothing to add that they reach for the whole 'misconstruing opinions as facts' card.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

no reading comprehension is required when the text states "It's a bad deal with real world consequences. That's a fact."



Not getting at slim, just pointing out the absurdity of saying something is an opinion when its clearly stated as a fact

Its why I highlighted it Bots

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Its why I highlighted it Bots

And then predictably had nothing else to offer when given the chance.

[The Slim Reaper]

And I'm happy to standby the fact that this is a bad deal with real world consequences.

[The Slim Reaper]

I didn't stop the video as it's worth watching all the way to the end.

[The Slim Reaper]

From the NY times

[bots]

References to decades-old computer software are included in the new Brexit agreement, including a description of Netscape Communicator and Mozilla Mail as being "modern" services.

Experts believe officials must have copied and pasted chunks of text from old legislation into the document.

The references are on page 921 of the trade deal, in a section on encryption technology.

It also recommends using systems that are now vulnerable to cyber-attacks.

The text cites "modern e-mail software packages including Outlook, Mozilla Mail as well as Netscape Communicator 4.x."

The latter two are now defunct - the last major release of Netscape Communicator was in 1997.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55475433

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This bodes well