[Ammi]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

honestly don't take much notice of it, i've just seen people getting irate and quoting "woke"

…but then isn’t that one of the points or one of the things that ‘woke’ is accused of as if it’s a negative thing …that ‘woke’ does ‘take notice’ ..it doesn’t just look on the surface of society inequalities or anything it finds deeply concerning for whatever the specific reason….

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…but then isn’t that one of the points or one of the things that ‘woke’ is accused of as if it’s a negative thing …that ‘woke’ does ‘take notice’ ..it doesn’t just look on the surface of society inequalities or anything it finds deeply concerning for whatever the specific reason….

you can't force people to be interested in something when they are just not. We all have our own priorities as individuals

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…but then isn’t that one of the points or one of the things that ‘woke’ is accused of as if it’s a negative thing …that ‘woke’ does ‘take notice’ ..it doesn’t just look on the surface of society inequalities or anything it finds deeply concerning for whatever the specific reason….

A second ago, he knew that new items were being added to the "woke agenda" on a daily basis; and therein lies the problem - intellectual dishonesty (excluding TS).

[Ammi]

…and actually they’re not ‘ridiculous examples…they’re very harmful examples because there are some who are believing ‘that woke weapon’ and that they have to rise up against it and take a stand …the power of labels and demonisation and manipulation…*cough*…Nigel Farage….

[Swan]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…to me that ‘muddling’ …or weaponising ‘woke’ in terms of its actual meaning…?…would be for attention and likes etc, as you say, yes…but for some it would be a clear and specific purpose of self agenda and self promotion and self income …people like Piers Morgan, Katie Hopkins, Laurence Fox …..who most definitely manipulate it as ‘threat’ thing to society…rather than a support of any society inequality…

I agree with that. Both 'sides' do it. And both sides of the argument have well documented opinions. The media are a lot to blame for this. Nothing can ever be black and white, it's just one extreme to the other.

(Piers Morgan is a tricky one for me, i do agree with some of what he says. I don't know enough about Laurence Fox to have an opinion. Katie Hopkins is a vile human being and i never have, and never will take anything she says serious. A perfect example of self obsessed ego-maniac)

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

A second ago, he knew that new items were being added to the "woke agenda" on a daily basis; and therein lies the problem - intellectual dishonesty (excluding TS).

i really should have learned from previous interactions with you, there is absolutely no need to get personal and accusatory ... but here we are again. I confess a disinterest, i note that people get irate about something new every day .... that does not equate to intellectual dishonesty, i am merely stating things as I see them, which is actually a very honest position

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

you can't force people to be interested in something when they are just not. We all have our own priorities as individuals

…of course we do and no one is ‘forcing’ anything or anyone…it’s that manipulation/skewed thing again of perceiving something as a negative…there are those who hope to have that ‘interest’ from others because they are not able..(…for whatever reasons…)…to find their own equality in society and it’s always, always been the way that ‘the more able to’ support the ‘less able to’….that’s how a healthy and successful society works, surely…

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

i really should have learned from previous interactions with you, there is absolutely no need to get personal and accusatory ... but here we are again. I confess a disinterest, i note that people get irate about something new every day .... that does not equate to intellectual dishonesty, i am merely stating things as I see them, which is actually a very honest position

How is that personal? You made a post, I commented and asked you questions and you ran away. If that's not intellectually dishonest, please provide a better example of it.

[Liam-]

Nobody ever actually refers to themselves as ‘woke’ in a serious manner, the only people who use the word are the right wingers who see it as an excuse to try and justify the fact that they are simply, just not very nice people

[GiRTh]

I think the term can be overanalysed. I think it is nothing more than a lazy way of opposing people who want some change.

I agree the term has been weaponised by both sides of the political spectrum as a negative to score points and dismiss an others opinion.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Swan

I agree with that. Both 'sides' do it. And both sides of the argument have well documented opinions. The media are a lot to blame for this. Nothing can ever be black and white, it's just one extreme to the other.

(Piers Morgan is a tricky one for me, i do agree with some of what he says. I don't know enough about Laurence Fox to have an opinion. Katie Hopkins is a vile human being and i never have, and never will take anything she says serious. A perfect example of self obsessed ego-maniac)

…that’s the ‘trick’ and manipulation though, isn’t it…to follow public opinions, which are mostly expressed in a negative …and again that’s always been the way and it’s obviously a very fast track world of social media now….to take a ‘seed’ of something that is public talking point etc…and then feed and manipulate it into a demonised beast…

[Swan]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…that’s the ‘trick’ and manipulation though, isn’t it…to follow public opinions, which are mostly expressed in a negative …and again that’s always been the way and it’s obviously a very fast track world of social media now….to take a ‘seed’ of something that is public talking point etc…and then feed and manipulate it into a demonised beast…

Yes i completely agree. The media play a huge part. Highlighting a 'woke' teen girl saying white people having a BBQ are racist doesn't help.

Behaviour on both sides cannot be dismissed. So many nuts on this 'woke for the wrong reasons' 'woke for the right reasons' are dominating what we see in the media.

We need a middle ground, we need a discourse, we need to find mutual grounds. We need an understanding, no shouting, no 'you're wrong im right' etc. But none of that sells. So all we really see is extremes from both sides because it sells, unfortunately.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

I think the term can be overanalysed. I think it is nothing more than a lazy way of opposing people who want some change.

I agree the term has been weaponised by both sides of the political spectrum as a negative to score points and dismiss an others opinion.

….yep, it’s all just games of words …it’s hard to argue social equalities and justice as a negative so the trick of the game is to label it into a negative…you goddamn woke thing you…no listening/no talking/just labelling…back and forth and back and forth…

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Swan

Yes i completely agree. The media play a huge part. Highlighting a 'woke' teen girl saying white people having a BBQ are racist doesn't help.

Behaviour on both sides cannot be dismissed. So many nuts on this 'woke for the wrong reasons' 'woke for the right reasons' are dominating what we see in the media.

We need a middle ground, we need a discourse, we need to find mutual grounds. We need an understanding, no shouting, no 'you're wrong im right' etc. But none of that sells. So all we really see is extremes from both sides because it sells, unfortunately.

…’divisiveness’ is a tactic as well, though…because I don’t believe that we have very much integrity in our political figures and political leadership to admire…divisiveness helps to detract and turn the attention away from public scrutiny….

[Swan]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…’divisiveness’ is a tactic as well, though…because I don’t believe that we have very much integrity in our political figures and political leadership to admire…divisiveness helps to detract and turn the attention away from public scrutiny….

It does, and that's why it needs to stop. The problem starts at home, in this case.

[GoldHeart]

'Woke' and 'snowflake' is so overused now to the point where it's ridiculous , it's always used as an insult usually towards the left and it's an excuse for people to moan and complain.

[jet]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

As this is obviously the biggest insult on this island at the moment, I'd like for some of the folks who believe it's a negative, to explain exactly what it means, to help the rest of us, and me in particular, understand exactly why it's a problem.

Anyone is welcome to contribute, but I only want to read your personal opinions, not daily mail comments or telegraph articles.

To me, woke is a positive or a negative depending on how it’s used. To be ‘woke’ should be a positive attribute, as it recognizes inequalities and strives to understand and eradicate them - and it often is.

But it is often used in a negative way to describe people like 'virtue signallers' who create a divisive, reactionary atmosphere by going to extremes. Calling people out as racist or sexist for example with no evidence at all other than a difference of opinion or cancelling people or things for unnecessary or ridiculous reasons achieves nothing. It just demonstrates the smugness of the accuser and the ‘look at me, I’m so enlightened and better than you’ mindset when what they are actually doing is damaging and limiting progress.

The majority of men and women are just trying to look after their families and be decent citizens, they don’t need some teen or twenty something woke warrior insisting they know what they think and feel or destroying statues instead of directing their energies towards the future and positive change.
When a person’s 'wokeness' isn’t used as an OTT tool to beat people with to score points and likes, it’s obviously a very desirable and needed quality.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

As this is obviously the biggest insult on this island at the moment, I'd like for some of the folks who believe it's a negative, to explain exactly what it means, to help the rest of us, and me in particular, understand exactly why it's a problem.

Anyone is welcome to contribute, but I only want to read your personal opinions, not daily mail comments or telegraph articles.

…just to add…(..I was thinking this morning because a phrase popped up in something unrelated that I was reading…)…?…’don’t hate the player, hate the game’….how that could be applied to ‘woke’ or ‘wokeness’….the ‘game’ ..(…for example..)…being an inequality that’s still prevalent in society despite apparent ‘progression’ etc..and that’s obviously the thing to be looked at/the inequality and issue that society should be looking at…?…but for whatever the reasons, that game that shows inequality or exclusivity or whatever is averted away from in favour of ‘hating the player’…as in focusing on those who are highlighting something…anyway, I know that’s quite simplistic and it’s much more layered and complex as everything is…but that phrase made me think of that association anyway…I think as someone said, I think it was GiRTh…that its a ‘lazy way’…because it’s an easier option to ‘label’ the player, rather than look at more deep and more unpleasant things within the game itself…

[Livia]

I think the term 'woke' used to mean people who are aware of world crises - poverty, climate change etc. - and tried to do something about it. But the word's been hijacked and now it refers to people who try to highlight world problems by showing people how virtuous they are, who talk about climate change (etc) in a didactic way, assuming that others aren't quite so virtuous or worried. Furthermore, it's just another name, just another reason to push people into pigeon holes and name call with no consequence: woke, gammon, Karen, Millennial, GenX, Boomer.....

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

I think the term 'woke' used to mean people who are aware of world crises - poverty, climate change etc. - and tried to do something about it. But the word's been hijacked and now it refers to people who try to highlight world problems by showing people how virtuous they are, who talk about climate change (etc) in a didactic way, assuming that others aren't quite so virtuous or worried. Furthermore, it's just another name, just another reason to push people into pigeon holes and name call with no consequence: woke, gammon, Karen, Millennial, GenX, Boomer.....

I'd say that's a fairly succinct summing up, and largely agree with this whole post. In 2021 I think using any of these words other than at least semi-ironically really misses the point.

[Ammi]

…actually I just came back in to say about climate change etc and that’s a good example because for me…the first time that I became familiar with the label was when it was attached to Greta Thunberg…such a young person challenging world leaders and something that wasn’t accepted very well at all by those world leaders but also other adults in society who some seemed to feel a type of resentment…and I think again it’s too layered to infer lecturing when it’s also how something is received and whether it’s received openly…highlighting/informing of consequences/of changes needed etc is not lecturing…communication is on how something is received as well and whether an individual sees it as a lecture or a highlighted concern …


…IMO, there is often a resistance to receive if from a much younger person../…a child such as Greta…but Sir David Attenborough more or less echoes everything she says and yet is much more less likely to be labelled ‘woke’ or inferred that he’s lecturing…because neither of them are…it doesn’t really help anything at all to not look at the person labelling and their reasons for doing so and only looking at the person being labelled ….

[Niamh.]

Yeah I've really only heard it in an insulting manner, I've not heard anyone refer to themselves as woke (maybe people do but I've not come across that yet) I take it to mean people who follow every social justice issue to the letter without question and if you question anything you're automatically on the far right. There doesn't seem to be a lot of middle ground allowed anymore or open conversations on emotive social issues.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…actually I just came back in to say about climate change etc and that’s a good example because for me…the first time that I became familiar with the label was when it was attached to Greta Thunberg…such a young person challenging world leaders and something that wasn’t accepted very well at all by those world leaders but also other adults in society who some seemed to feel a type of resentment…and I think again it’s too layered to infer lecturing when it’s also how something is received and whether it’s received openly…highlighting/informing of consequences/of changes needed etc is not lecturing…communication is on how something is received as well and whether an individual sees it as a lecture or a highlighted concern …


…IMO, there is often a resistance to receive if from a much younger person../…a child such as Greta…but Sir David Attenborough more or less echoes everything she says and yet is much more less likely to be labelled ‘woke’ or inferred that he’s lecturing…because neither of them are…it doesn’t really help anything at all to not look at the person labelling and their reasons for doing so and only looking at the person being labelled ….

You have to feel bad for Al Gore - he was trying to get people to listen long before Greta was born. The term "woke" didn't exist but more or less everyone treated him like a joke for it . Sorry Al.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You have to feel bad for Al Gore - he was trying to get people to listen long before Greta was born. The term "woke" didn't exist but more or less everyone treated him like a joke for it . Sorry Al.

It's because most people don't want to hear it because doing anything meaningful about it would require too much change to their behaviours and probably give up some comforts/luxuries etc

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You have to feel bad for Al Gore - he was trying to get people to listen long before Greta was born. The term "woke" didn't exist but more or less everyone treated him like a joke for it . Sorry Al.

…the thing is for me, working in a school…?…is that Greta engaged the interest of the children in a way that hadn’t been so before…and that was largely obviously because of her age…I do think Al was listened to tbh…but it just didn’t engage in the same way because of that aspect of raising awareness and concerns in our children…