[Oliver_W]

Is it known if the other victims were connected to him in any way?

[Vanessa]

This is heartbreaking.
The father trying to save his little girl

[arista]

Originally Posted by Babayaro.

This really irks me.

‘Dog Walker’ ffs Can’t they have the decency to say their actual names instead of giving them a tag??

Fast moving DM images

That image has changed again
with a ITVnews Video in the centre now

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html

[arista]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

This is heartbreaking.
The father trying to save his little girl

Thats the trouble with pump action shot gun



Real sad
the 3 year old did not stand a chance

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

He said hi,self he didn’t identify as Intel.

There are a lot of things which could have pushed him to do this and that might not include intel.

You keep saying “intel”

It’s “incel”

You don’t even know the word, you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about, this problem is massive, you apparently aren’t interested or don’t care (why would you, I suppose, you have the privilege of it not affecting you at all) but by denying this problem or refusing to even believe that there is one, you are part of the problem. So no, I don’t want to debate this topic with you.

You also say he "says he didn't identify as intel" (I assume you meant incel)

From the article;

"posted videos of himself working out and most recently ten-minute rants about life being 'rigged against you', humanity being on the 'brink of extinction' and being repulsive to the opposite sex."

This is 100% incel rhetoric and indoctrination. The article also clearly states that he himself identified as and referred to himself as "blackpill". If you don't know what that is, here you go;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel#Red_pill

The "black pill" generally refers to a set of commonly-held beliefs in incel communities, which include biological determinism, fatalism, and defeatism for unattractive people.[88] Believers are referred to as being "blackpilled".[89] The black pill has been described by Vox correspondent Zack Beauchamp as "a profoundly sexist ideology that ... amounts to a fundamental rejection of women's sexual emancipation, labeling women shallow, cruel creatures who will choose only the most attractive men if given the choice".[35] The term was first popularized on the blog Omega Virgin Revolt, where it represented a belief that the entire social system was broken and that one's place in the system was not something any individual could change.[65][87] An incel who has "taken the black pill" has adopted the belief that they are hopeless, and that their lack of success romantically and sexually is permanent regardless of any changes they might try to make to their physical appearance, personality, or other characteristics.

When you clearly have so little idea of what the topic is that you can’t even spell the word.

Leading me to believe that you’d never even heard it until yesterday.

You should be a women’s activist seeing as you have such passionate views about mainly women this, mainly women that yet ignoring the bigger picture.

MRA rhetoric. Keep it.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

.

You said it’s mostly aimed at women, I gave you examples of it not mainly being women, but that’s fine you dismiss that.
:

Just to clarify this part: I did not say that “terrorism mainly targets women”. I said that incel groups mainly (pretty much exclusively) target women with their hatred and violence. And that when these people take action, it is terrorism. I know that it isn’t “in the eyes of the law” - THAT IS THE PROBLEM. Swept under the carpet. Hopefully not for much longer.

You countered that by pointing out that religious terrorist groups are largely indiscriminate in their attacks, for some reason, which has absolutely no bearing on what I said.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

I don’t actually know how clearer it could be.

From his video, he actually talks about being the terminator so I just don’t think it’s fair to say 100% this was intel related. I’m thinking holistically about this...domestic dispute, mental health.... we don’t know 100%...and in order to class something as terrorism, in the eyes of the law, there has to be grounds and reasonable suspicion....it’s just not 100 clear cut as to the motives and reasoning.

Mental health is a cross roads and we can take one path or the other, many cases, numerous paths.

I think he identified as many things and couldn’t see the wood through the trees.

Again, it could be intel, but then it could be narcissist personality disorder which includes delusions of grandeur... I understand the polices reasoning to not classify this as terrorism at this point

Why when White people shoot people its mental health but when a non white person shoots someone they are a terrorist, its clear cut racism.

Anyone who goes out of their way to terrorise people or places are terrorist

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Denver

Anyone who goes out of their way to terrorise people or places are terrorist

I fully agree with this; any hatred-fuelled attack that has the goal of causing misery and midnless destruction is clearcut terrorism. Whether or not the terrorist has mental health problems is completely besides the point; as I said above, with the perpetrators of Islamic Extremist attacks - if you could take one alive and dig around for a while - you would almost certainly discover that their mental health is in tatters... because that's part of the radicalisation process. It's very difficult to radicalise mentally healthy people whether that's into an Islamic cell or an Incel group. "Are terrorists in general mentally healthy" is a totally separate debate; and the quick answer for me is "well obviously not" however that does not mean they are pathologically mentally ill. "Poor mental health" and "mental illness" aren't the same thing.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You keep saying “intel”

It’s “incel”

You don’t even know the word, you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about, this problem is massive, you apparently aren’t interested or don’t care (why would you, I suppose, you have the privilege of it not affecting you at all) but by denying this problem or refusing to even believe that there is one, you are part of the problem. So no, I don’t want to debate this topic with you.

You also say he "says he didn't identify as intel" (I assume you meant incel)

From the article;



This is 100% incel rhetoric and indoctrination. The article also clearly states that he himself identified as and referred to himself as "blackpill". If you don't know what that is, here you go;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel#Red_pill





When you clearly have so little idea of what the topic is that you can’t even spell the word.

Leading me to believe that you’d never even heard it until yesterday.




MRA rhetoric. Keep it.

You are free to believe what you want, obviously. I'm sure you have the privilege of it not affecting you either. I didn't say I didn't care, those were your words.

I'm just stating the other side of the argument that it might not be this.

Originally Posted by Denver

Why when White people shoot people its mental health but when a non white person shoots someone they are a terrorist, its clear cut racism.

Anyone who goes out of their way to terrorise people or places are terrorist

No they're not as I have said many times in this thread.

Here we go, the racist card

Regardless of colour terrorism is political whether you're black, white or pink

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I fully agree with this; any hatred-fuelled attack that has the goal of causing misery and midnless destruction is clearcut terrorism. Whether or not the terrorist has mental health problems is completely besides the point; as I said above, with the perpetrators of Islamic Extremist attacks - if you could take one alive and dig around for a while - you would almost certainly discover that their mental health is in tatters... because that's part of the radicalisation process. It's very difficult to radicalise mentally healthy people whether that's into an Islamic cell or an Incel group. "Are terrorists in general mentally healthy" is a totally separate debate; and the quick answer for me is "well obviously not" however that does not mean they are pathologically mentally ill. "Poor mental health" and "mental illness" aren't the same thing.

It's not clear cut at all

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about, to quote you

Go and read PACE.

[ThomasC]

Anyway, I'm bored of this forum generally.

Will follow Ammi.

Ta, ta

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Denver

Why when White people shoot people its mental health but when a non white person shoots someone they are a terrorist, its clear cut racism.

Anyone who goes out of their way to terrorise people or places are terrorist

There have been at least 3 random knife attacks in London which have not been deemed terrorist in nature but due to mental health issues so that’s not exactly true

[arista]

Some reports say he was on the Autistic Spectrum.
That would explain alot.

[arista]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

Anyway, I'm bored of this forum generally.

Will follow Ammi.

Ta, ta

No Thomas keep posting
all views are valid

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

You are free to believe what you want, obviously. I'm sure you have the privilege of it not affecting you either. I didn't say I didn't care, those were your words.

I have two daughters and kids who are buying into this world have affected her already. She's 12 years old.

It's not clear cut at all

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about, to quote you

Go and read PACE.

I've already told you that I'm perfectly aware of the PACE definition and that I disagree with it and think it's part of the problem, I don't know how much clearer I could have been, but perhaps you didn't read or bother understanding it, much like you haven't read or understood anything about "intel" before flapping your gums on a topic you have literally zero knowledge of.

here it is again incase you're still here.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

when these people take action, it is terrorism. I know that it isn’t “in the eyes of the law” - THAT IS THE PROBLEM. Swept under the carpet. Hopefully not for much longer.

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Babayaro.

This really irks me.

‘Dog Walker’ ffs Can’t they have the decency to say their actual names instead of giving them a tag??

As there is no picture of the 'Dog walker' victim....it could be that not all their relatives have been informed yet.

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

Anyway, I'm bored of this forum generally.

Will follow Ammi.

Ta, ta

Dont leave Thomas....use the ignore button and debate with the people you want to.

[arista]

[Cherie]

It seems he had issues going back for some years so who thought it was an idea to give him use of a gun

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

In your eyes, not the laws.

Nothing clear cut about it

The definition of terrorism according to the Internet.

"The unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims."

The guy admits that he was an Incel, and then eventually kills 5 people with three of them being women. Plus he did use violence and intimidation against civilians.

Basically whichever way you look at it it's terrorism, and in my unofficial way of classifying terrorism, going around and shooting five people dead at what seemingly appears to be random with four of his victims should count as terrorism imo.

But under the UK law we aren't following the official definition of terrorism if we don't class this guy as a terrorist.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I have two daughters and kids who are buying into this world have affected her already. She's 12 years old.






I've already told you that I'm perfectly aware of the PACE definition and that I disagree with it and think it's part of the problem, I don't know how much clearer I could have been, but perhaps you didn't read or bother understanding it, much like you haven't read or understood anything about "intel" before flapping your gums on a topic you have literally zero knowledge of.

here it is again incase you're still here.

Your 12 year old Daughter has met Incel's? That's awful.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Denver

6 dead including a child

Absolutely disgusting
And the gunman sounds like a lunatic geeez

[arista]

[arista]

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

Anyway, I'm bored of this forum generally.

Will follow Ammi.

Ta, ta

You came in like a breath of fresh air and your leaving like a silent fart

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Your 12 year old Daughter has met Incel's? That's awful.

Well obviously not actual "incels" (at 12 you would hope that they are ALL celibate) but yes at least two boys with YouTube/TikTok accounts that are, essentially, full of frustration, hatred and ranting directed at women/girls. That's the worrying thing really - I doubt they're on redpill/blackpill forums themselves but the rhetoric is filtering down into "the mainstream". MRA stuff ("It's men who have it worst/women are unsympathetic") is absolutely ALL OVER TikTok for example. Most of them aren't the "hardcore" ones you'd find on 4chan or Reddit but they're picking up these ideas from other Social Media, and the terms/language being used is always the same, so it's coming from the same source (mostly Reddit).