[Redway]

I don’t know how many of you have had experience with this line but it’s basically somewhere you can tap in to access psychological/basic mental health advice (not necessarily just for actively suicidal people) and I thought it’d be interesting to see how people feel about it (as far as helpfulness goes).

I personally haven’t had the best experiences with it (the advice they give is too general and in the handful of times I’ve tapped in I only rarely got the impression that the person on the other end truly cared) but that’s just me.

[thesheriff443]

Never used it or heard of it

[Ashley.]

I find that they're closer to basic customer service than genuine therapy - volunteers can't go off-script in the same way a trained professional can.

[Toy Soldier]

Is that “Shout”? They mean well and it’s better than there being nothing but they can’t give any sort of professional advice and their usefulness for people in real crisis is questionable.

But then, trained mental health staff right up to psychiatrists/psychologists can’t always help, or at least, not immediately with one phone call or conversation… so really I’m not sure what can be expected of what are essentially call centre staff. For anyone in acute mental health crisis, they’re going to be way out of their depth.

Where it can help is people suffering from an anxiety episode with a specific cause; e.g. generalised health anxiety (“found a mole” etc.) or financial anxiety (lost a lot of money, can’t pay bills and starting to panic, something like that) - that’s when just talking it though and being encouraged to think about the most realistic scenarios can help people to stop spiralling.

And yeah it’s always going to be basically pot luck whether you get connected to someone who is genuinely helpful or not.

I also find they’re generally geared for people who have little to zero knowledge of psychology/anxiety management techniques and if you do already have any of that knowledge they can seem patronising.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Is that “Shout”? They mean well and it’s better than there being nothing but they can’t give any sort of professional advice and their usefulness for people in real crisis is questionable.

But then, trained mental health staff right up to psychiatrists/psychologists can’t always help, or at least, not immediately with one phone call or conversation… so really I’m not sure what can be expected of what are essentially call centre staff. For anyone in acute mental health crisis, they’re going to be way out of their depth.

Where it can help is people suffering from an anxiety episode with a specific cause; e.g. generalised health anxiety (“found a mole” etc.) or financial anxiety (lost a lot of money, can’t pay bills and starting to panic, something like that) - that’s when just talking it though and being encouraged to think about the most realistic scenarios can help people to stop spiralling.

And yeah it’s always going to be basically pot luck whether you get connected to someone who is genuinely helpful or not.

I also find they’re generally geared for people who have little to zero knowledge of psychology/anxiety management techniques and if you do already have any of that knowledge they can seem patronising.

When I’m struggling financially I’d rather be pointed in the direction of someone who can actually help me put bread on the table or pay my bills. Friendly advice sometimes just doesn’t cut it.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Redway

When I’m struggling financially I’d rather be pointed in the direction of someone who can actually help me put bread on the table or pay my bills. Friendly advice sometimes just doesn’t cut it.

I was thinking more in situations when someone is truly screwed financially - but the threat can seem amplified (I.e. sometimes it can help just to remind someone that even if they do default on a load of debts… they’re not going to die/starve… their credit rating will tank but life goes on)

[Redway]

They might actually starve if no one’s willing to help them out financially though. I do hear and appreciate what you’re saying but even in those times of stress/anxiety with a specific non-psychological cause, concrete/practical solutions are always going to be more helpful than reassurance by strangers who can’t actually do anything in the way of addressing the root cause of the issue. I read a therapist state that most people’s (non-psychiatric, of course) ‘issues’ would be solved if they had more money and I have to agree with that. Even in those circumstances where the financial difficulties are part of a deeper thread of psychological issues it’s usually way beyond the purview and scope of what those call centre people can provide because they really don’t do anything other than give you a few links about how to cope with loneliness and stress (which might have some benefit but for people with deeper-rooted issues do very little indeed).

[Redway]

I’ve kind of changed my mind about Shout. They do a cracking job with what they can a good chunk of the time and sometimes it’s just easier being able to talk to someone who doesn’t already know them, people find. I guess it’ll depend on what you need exactly. I have a lot of low-key qualms with them but some volunteers are more helpful than others. And the ones who are helpful can give good advice to people. Especially ones who aren’t in crisis and just need to sit through things with someone on the other end who’s a bit more impersonal. How seriously they actually take confidentiality I don’t know but they don’t know the people they talk to and vice-versa so that just adds a layer of anonymity that can’t be taken away or violated by some gossip.

There are people who have worked for the NHS who have breached confidentiality in other spaces so it’s not a guarantee that anyone’s going to take your privacy as seriously as you’d want them to but with Shout being the way it is by its very nature that just give people texting in a bit of protection, and that can make it easier to put a bit of trust in them for a minute. I definitely wouldn’t be quick to recommend it for someone who’s in more acute crisis (that’s part of the thing) but if you need to clock in every now and then just to talk about stuff, that’s perfectly allowed.

Some people get met with a brick wall if they text in more than just the once or twice a week for a while by an automated text that basically tells people to go away, reflect even more and call 999 if they’re in an emergency though and that can put people off and discourage them. It can take a lot of courage to text in in the first place so when you’re told that they’re not actually there for people 24/7 in the way they say they are, that can do people damage and increase anxiety.

It’s good to have a bit more of a realistic understanding and awareness of da peeps you gonna talk to so it helps to show a bit of that rather than going strictly by the generic script. You don’t do that and expect everyone to feel comfortable or that they’re actually, genuinely being listened to. You might not be fully in the loop but there’s a way to get in it to the extent that’s necessary to make someone feel genuinely heard.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I was thinking more in situations when someone is truly screwed financially - but the threat can seem amplified (I.e. sometimes it can help just to remind someone that even if they do default on a load of debts… they’re not going to die/starve… their credit rating will tank but life goes on)

I know a couple of people who have had their financial problems saved by Step Change ..

One guy was in an extremely bad situation and it was effecting his mental state .. he had a huge debt ( credit cards) and he’s still paying them a TINY amount each month to this day ( it must be over 10 years already )

They never hassle him about anything ..

https://www.stepchange.org/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Soldier Boy]

Originally Posted by Zizu

I know a couple of people who have had their financial problems saved by Step Change ..

One guy was in an extremely bad situation and it was effecting his mental state .. he had a huge debt ( credit cards) and he’s still paying them a TINY amount each month to this day ( it must be over 10 years already )

They never hassle him about anything ..

https://www.stepchange.org/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Depends what you mean by solved Zizu, Step Change will help people with payment arrangements that are a sort of semi-insolvency, so yes they'll help will immediate finances (paying less on debts to put food on the table) which is of course what many people ultimately need ... However as with all repayment/insolvency agreements it will absolutely tank credit rating so, for example, it's not a great option for (for example) a younger adult who might want to get a mortgage or something within the next 6 years. Or any other type of credit really. Car loans, etc... sometimes even simple things like mobile phone contracts.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

Depends what you mean by solved Zizu, Step Change will help people with payment arrangements that are a sort of semi-insolvency, so yes they'll help will immediate finances (paying less on debts to put food on the table) which is of course what many people ultimately need ... However as with all repayment/insolvency agreements it will absolutely tank credit rating so, for example, it's not a great option for (for example) a younger adult who might want to get a mortgage or something within the next 6 years. Or any other type of credit really. Car loans, etc... sometimes even simple things like mobile phone contracts.

I don’t know any real specifics apart from they are a non profit charitable organisation and one of the guys owed many thousands and still just pays £10 month .. the debt decreases slowly but they never add interest..

I have no idea how they are funded but they seem like angels from heaven in this cut throat society


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[thesheriff443]

Never heard of them

[Redway]

Why’s it called Shout anyhoo?

[Soldier Boy]

Originally Posted by Redway

Why’s it called Shout anyhoo?

"If you need someone to talk to, just give us a shout".

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

"If you need someone to talk to, just give us a shout".

Giz a shout, laa.

[Soldier Boy]

As an addendum to what I said back when this thread was posted: I am quite glad that services like this exist, because actual official "Crisis" phone services can be absolutely SHOCKING. Really, really terrible. I thankfully haven't had cause to use them myself but some of the accounts I've heard are harrowing, and it's from too many people (and too high a proportion of people who have used them) to be exaggerated. I genuinely think they on some occasions cause people more psychological harm than good.

The charity/3rd sector based phone lines might not be hugely effective all the time but I at least very seldom hear about them being actively harmful.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

As an addendum to what I said back when this thread was posted: I am quite glad that services like this exist, because actual official "Crisis" phone services can be absolutely SHOCKING. Really, really terrible. I thankfully haven't had cause to use them myself but some of the accounts I've heard are harrowing, and it's from too many people (and too high a proportion of people who have used them) to be exaggerated. I genuinely think they on some occasions cause people more psychological harm than good.

The charity/3rd sector based phone lines might not be hugely effective all the time but I at least very seldom hear about them being actively harmful.

I have heard horror stories of how some Shout volunteers can be either really unhelpful (like you said earlier, it’s just by chance if you do or you don’t get connected to someone who’s of any use to you and has the right kind of maturity and engagement) or call the police/999 on individual people way too easily (if they think the person’s at immediate risk, even if they’re not), to be fair. And those automated texts people get telling them to stop tapping in as much if they’re going through a rough patch and needing to use Shout more often (I think chats can get limited to just the one every 48 hours, which sounds fair enough but people who use it less than that sometimes randomly get that for no reason). That can put people off and make them wonder why Shout says they're literally there for you 24/7. Anyone who tries to challenge that would probably just be fobbed off with some garden-variety generic response but it is something Shout needs to look into. You can’t be telling people you’re literally there for them 24/7 but then quite clearly not be. And then the cheek to ultimately only be connected to someone who essentially just tells them to have a cup of tea if you do fall into that category. There’s only so much clearance for them to go off-script, sure, but the script has to actually mean something.

As for Samaritans? They’re generally of a higher quality than other crisis lines but they’re not immune to hanging up the ’phone on people in crisis. That has happened with people here-and-there. Like you say it’s pot-luck whether you get connected to someone who’s genuinely useful or not. There’s always going to be a crap robot in the fray somewhere and if you’re unlucky, that’s who’ll pick up the ’phone on you.

[Redway]

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/giveusashout.org

No but the reviews ain’t really glistening.

[Mystic Mock]

I've never used it, so I don't know what it's like in execution.

But I don't believe that it's a bad idea as a concept.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

I've never used it, so I don't know what it's like in execution.

But I don't believe that it's a bad idea as a concept.

It all very-much depends on the volunteer, Mock. The long wait times are a major mark against them though. People tend to want to talk about … stuff more at night and that’s when the help should be most-readily accessible. Give it too long and the person’s asleep or they had to go get ready for work or something. It’s just not practical to expect people to wait for that long. Not when Samaritans really are as 24/7 as they say they are. Ridiculous tests of patience and the fact that it’s basically pot-luck whether you get connected to someone who’s then worth the wait or not go against Shout and stops a lot of people from taking them seriously. Anyone can be a volunteer for Shout and really not have a clue what you saying and what they saying but you’ve got to know what you’re doing to be a Samaritan. The bar’s higher and it shows in better consistency in quality of their volunteers. So like the chance of getting snooped by some nonsense 18-year-old who hasn’t got a clue what they’re supposed to be saying is basically zero and not gonna happen. You’re talking to someone who might as well be a professional at Samaritans, not a wet chip who only has a custom wet response for everything you say. Some of those volunteers are amazing, some are just kids who need more experience in life.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Zizu

I don’t know any real specifics apart from they are a non profit charitable organisation and one of the guys owed many thousands and still just pays £10 month .. the debt decreases slowly but they never add interest..

I have no idea how they are funded but they seem like angels from heaven in this cut throat society


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Really?