[user104658]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

I didn't say it doesn't have any affect at all, I just said it was on a completely different level of danger, which I completely stand by without any hesitation. To this day, I'd hop in a car without any fear if one of my friends was driving baked, but I'd never get in the motor with a drunk driver. Maybe that complacency is also dangerous (it's not even remotely likely these days) but it's borne out of over a decade worth of unintentional testing.

If one of my friends was trying to drive baked I'd throw his keys down a drain, report him, and hope he loses his licence for his own good and the good of every other road user and pedestrian... so I suspect this is one of the things we see quite differently.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Again subjectively how it feels is not necessarily the reality of neurological effect; THC is not a stimulant. You don't get "high" on weed, it's chemically impossible, it's a depressive that produces dopamine, which is exactly what alcohol does. It's just a "cleaner" dopamine flood. You're still doped-up.

It's also the reason that - just like daily drinking - habitual regular use beats the **** out of your D1 dopamine receptors, making normal dopamine levels ineffective at regulating mood. i.e. it causes depression and anxiety and your only options are to

1) continue to flood with excess dopamine (continue daily drinking or smoking)

2) Compensate with serotonin increases (i.e. SSRI antidepressants, or obsessive exercise for tryptophan release. Often neither are enough.)

or 3) stop for long enough to (hopefully) allow the dopamine receptors to return to normal function (if they're not damaged beyond repair).

So again ... ... no to legalisation and normalisation.

But using those words to describe the difference to someone who obviously didn't really have a clue (Not using that in a demeaning way, rusti) is a completely reasonable thing to do as it used the commonly known parlance descriptors.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

If one of my friends was trying to drive baked I'd throw his keys down a drain, report him, and hope he loses his licence for his own good and the good of every other road user and pedestrian... so I suspect this is one of the things we see quite differently.

[Calderyon]

Only for medicinal purposes.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Calderyon

Only for medicinal purposes.

.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Smoking weed doesn't lead to as many crashes as alcohol use because weed smoking doesn't increase risk-taking behaviours in the same way (and can actually result in people being over-cautious when driving) so that means they're far less likely to speed or to attempt a dumb overtaking manoeuvre (possibly even less likely than a sober person) and so it has a far less disastrous effect on "routine driving". HOWEVER, how it affects your reaction times on observing a hazard and your stopping distance in an unexpected scenario (such as an unseen pedestrian stepping out from behind something) is all that objectively matters and the difference is practically zero. Weed slows your reactions just as much as alcohol. You might be able to steer better and not have that typical "swerving about the road" that's a sign of a drunk driver, and not be tanking down a country road at 80 or YOLO overtaking on blind corners, but your reaction times and stopping distance is just as badly affected... so whilst you're not creating as many risky scenarios... your ability to react to a scenario caused by someone else is just as imparied and a pedestrian stepping out is just as dead.

Anyone dumb enough to attempt driving while high shouldn’t be smoking weed in the first place. The exact ways in which high driving might be worse than drunk driving are irrelevant because you shouldn’t be driving while intoxicated anyway. And in any case drunk driving causes more deaths than high driving and that’s the biggest quantitative measure of damage.

[Marsh.]

Yeah, one might be more dangerous than the other but both are dangerous and shouldn't be done.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

The irony

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

The irony

[GoldHeart]

I've spoken about this before , but the actual cannabis plant isn't the problem .. it's how it's taken/ used which is.

Smoking it has zero health benefits other than to get stoned, so of course they think it calms them, but when it's smoked it stinks .

But if it was used the right way in Oil forms,or boiled in water then it would be far better ,and you wouldn't have the weird side effects IE paranoia , feeling sick , hallucinations , feeling drowsy etc .

The actual sativa seed is great for the skin and I've used it in face wash and lotions ,and it helps joint pains. You could even have a bath in it and it would be much healthier than smoking it.

[AnnieK]

I think it should definitely be decriminalised, wouldn't bother me if it were legal either. I don't smoke it any more but I have done a lot in the past. I have also driven stoned - back in the early 90s. I have been in cars with people off their faces on a whole range of drugs after clubs. We always felt like we weren't doing that much wrong as no-one drank alcohol but looking back - people were tripping their faces off

Today, things are very different with roadside swab tests but in the 90s you didn't really worry too much. Looking back, its a wonder there wasn't terrible consequences but it was never something we considered when piling out of a club and going on to the next meet up.

[bots]

i would increase the severity of sentences, not make it legal

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

i would increase the severity of sentences, not make it legal

I wouldn’t make the punishments more severe, weed is bought (by most) through a low-level local dealer who isn’t pushing hard drugs. If you make it too risky for Bob Next Door to sell a little bag of weed, it’ll go into the hands of those who are already selling hard drugs, and those people will try to tempt their buyers into trying other drugs.

[LaLaLand]

This just blew my mind the first time I saw it, like a miracle:

Youtube video

[Livia]

Yes, legalise it across the board... and immediately for medical purposes. I would like to see all drugs decriminalised and available where they can be regulated and help given to people who need it. Take the criminals out of the equation.

[Redway]

Nice to see you around, Liv.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Redway

Nice to see you around, Liv.

Thanks, Red... nice to see you too x

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[user104658]

It does not help with anxiety. It causes or worsens anxiety and depression. This has not only been widely studied, but the actual neuropsychological mechanism for WHY it causes or worsens anxiety and depression is well understood.

"Weed helps anxiety" is one of the most dangerous myths around. Sure it helps alleviate anxiety in the short term. So does alcohol. Drinking or smoking weed to help with anxiety is a terrible idea and significantly worsens clinical, long-term anxiety and depression because of the effect it has on dopamine receptors.

Anyone who would recommend self-medication with weed for anxiety and depression is merrily waving that person off down a path of spiraling addictions.

I'm all for legalization in terms of further study for prescribed medical uses.

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It does not help with anxiety. It causes or worsens anxiety and depression. This has not only been widely studied, but the actual neuropsychological mechanism for WHY it causes or worsens anxiety and depression is well understood.

"Weed helps anxiety" is one of the most dangerous myths around. Sure it helps alleviate anxiety in the short term. So does alcohol. Drinking or smoking weed to help with anxiety is a terrible idea and significantly worsens clinical, long-term anxiety and depression because of the effect it has on dopamine receptors.

Anyone who would recommend self-medication with weed for anxiety and depression is merrily waving that person off down a path of spiraling addictions.

I'm all for legalization in terms of further study for prescribed medical uses.

Very true.

I get very anxious if I run dry.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Very true.

I get very anxious if I run dry.

Are you more of a kush or sativa guy?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Except in places where marijuana products are available for medical purposes, some people are prescribed such products for anxiety and the like

On prescription is a different thing though, prescribed meds are most often about harm reduction rather than proof that they're totally safe. Like I said, I'm all for medical legalisation. When it's for anxiety they'd probably be prescribed to people who are currently prescribed benzos, and would almost certainly be a far better choice, because long-term benzo use has serious health implications. It's possible that it would even be preferable to SSRI's because those have basically the exact same damaging neurological effect as THC does, except it's on serotonin neuroreceptors rather than dopamine receptors. So certainly scope for studying which one is "worse" and going with the one that causes least harm.

The important point though is that this would be prescribed medical use for harm reduction of a chronic anxiety disorder that needs some form of medication... at which point the question stops being "is it harmful" and becomes "which option is least harmful".

Completely different to people choosing off their own back to self-prescribe weed for anxiety (as people already do, obviously... lots of people smoke weed / drink alcohol / both to combat anxiety). That's almost certain to increase long-term symptoms. People think it makes them better because they feel better while they're doing it but that's a no-brainer, of course they feel better while they have an active buzz, that's completely different to something having a genuine therapeutic effect.

Basically, there's a good reason that you can't pop down to Tesco and grab a box of SSRI's or Benzodiazepines off the shelf next to the multivitamins.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Redway

Are you more of a kush or sativa guy?

I work hard all day so I like my sleep at night.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It does not help with anxiety. It causes or worsens anxiety and depression. This has not only been widely studied, but the actual neuropsychological mechanism for WHY it causes or worsens anxiety and depression is well understood.

"Weed helps anxiety" is one of the most dangerous myths around. Sure it helps alleviate anxiety in the short term. So does alcohol. Drinking or smoking weed to help with anxiety is a terrible idea and significantly worsens clinical, long-term anxiety and depression because of the effect it has on dopamine receptors.

Anyone who would recommend self-medication with weed for anxiety and depression is merrily waving that person off down a path of spiraling addictions.

I'm all for legalization in terms of further study for prescribed medical uses.

Nah. The only reason weed in its current form seems to trigger anxiety for some people is because of the influences of unchecked THC and not enough CBD (the true magic of cannabis) to mediate/temper out the effects of THC and that wouldn’t be an issue if weed was legalised. CBD is an anti-anxiety agent. An anti-psychotic agent. It has a metaphorical parallel with Xanax and setraline but it’s natural. It’s just that this current era doesn’t seem to have time for things that are natural because the pharmaceutical industry wants all the profit it can get.

And people are going to be there to abuse anything so you can bring up addiction as an anomaly whether you’re talking about weed, alcohol or doughnuts. People do medicate with CBD and they’re able to get relief for whatever they’re dealing with without all the attendant side-effects that come with pharmaceutical drugs.

You’re going to have to do a much better job if you want to make a tangible argument against the legalisation of cannabis. At the moment you’re just painting all stoners as overly self-indulgent people willing to spiral themselves down a rabbit hole akin to demoniac possession for the sake of a quick head-high or ill-advised self-treatment and there just isn’t any need.