[Redway]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The absolute #1 problem for men's mental health is toxic patriarchy; other men making men feel weak/pathetic/embarrassed if they admit to anything other than stoicism. It's something that's improving but there's generations upon generations of damage done by the "men don't get emotional" concept. Sadly, it's an idea that women can latch onto as well, it's so deep rooted ... most people will say that they're fine with everyone sharing their emotions but in reality, it's often seen as unattractive in men. I know that sounds a bit MRA but it is actually the case. Certainly far from everyone thinks this way and there are huge variations across social groups and across cultures. But yeah, the idea that "men are tough and solid" is, ironically, the root of mental health issues in men and the reason that suicides are higher. It's not that more men than women are suicidal... it's that they feel too embarrassed to confide in anyone or seek help and just end up doing it.

I’m going to reply this properly a bit later on but you’ve hit the nail on the head. What I was also saying was that toxic patriarchy also has elements of white male supremacy and overall misogyny engendered in it (something that pisses me off a lot) but that’s a discussion for another day.

But having said that I feel like we need to clarify between mental health issues regarded as common and severe alike. The likes of schizophrenia (to name an example) are more associated than males than females. No one would make reference to such a condition in a gendered way or question a man’s strength. Ditto for bipolar disorder (at least the type marked by strong manic episodes) and similar conditions. I feel like men’s mental health is only a taboo when the issue of ‘common’ mental health issues [from phobias to (mild-ish) depression] is considered. (Emphasis on the mild because depression can be very severe.)

I just feel like the further up the mental ill-health spectrum you go, the less it is about opening up about feelings and the more it’s associated with the likes of psychosis and violence. Those are things that are generally associated with men more than women. “Anxiety and mild depression” aren’t the cornerstone of the mental illness experience. That’s just the common stuff that women seem to find it easier to open up about.

[Toy Soldier]

There's definitely a strong distinction between "poor mental health" and actual clinical/neurological conditions. Poor mental health is what I would call things like depression and anxiety, though I don't think the distinction is "seriousness", depression and anxiety can be extremely serious and debilitating all the way up to and including suicide. Likewise, neurological mental health problems can obviously range from extreme (permanent inpatient territory) right down to very manageable (usually with medication).

Also to complicate things further there's plenty of crossover; pathological mental health problems can create large amounts of depression and anxiety for obvious reasons, and behavioural depression and anxiety can in extreme cases lead to actual psychosis etc.

Really there's a never-ending push and pull in mental health services between psychiatrists (generally medical approach) and psychologists (generally behavioural approach) and the debate about which is best (or which combination of the two) is constant.

From what I know there's actually not a huge difference between the incidence of general psychosis between men and women. Schizophrenia specifically though is something like 70% male. I wonder though if some of the difference is down to different manifestation and the diagnostic criteria. You're right that really across all medicine there's what's termed the "white male default" ... which basically means that a lot of diagnostic criteria is based on "what that thing looks like in the average white bloke". My daughter for example is Autistic but we were very lucky to have a good paediatrician with a holistic approach, because she doesn't fit the "diagnostic criteria" in MANY ways, and that's true for a lot of her female classmates in special education. The "outline of what autism with learning disability looks like" is based on a) boys and yes b) white boys. Sadly that also means a lot of the "standard" education in LD services is geared towards that and significant adjustment is needed to fit anyone else. I think that probably applies all across clinical mental health so it's worth considering if it's really "more men are afflicted with X" and not simply "more men are diagnosed with X".

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There's definitely a strong distinction between "poor mental health" and actual clinical/neurological conditions. Poor mental health is what I would call things like depression and anxiety, though I don't think the distinction is "seriousness", depression and anxiety can be extremely serious and debilitating all the way up to and including suicide. Likewise, neurological mental health problems can obviously range from extreme (permanent inpatient territory) right down to very manageable (usually with medication).

Also to complicate things further there's plenty of crossover; pathological mental health problems can create large amounts of depression and anxiety for obvious reasons, and behavioural depression and anxiety can in extreme cases lead to actual psychosis etc.

Really there's a never-ending push and pull in mental health services between psychiatrists (generally medical approach) and psychologists (generally behavioural approach) and the debate about which is best (or which combination of the two) is constant.

From what I know there's actually not a huge difference between the incidence of general psychosis between men and women. Schizophrenia specifically though is something like 70% male. I wonder though if some of the difference is down to different manifestation and the diagnostic criteria. You're right that really across all medicine there's what's termed the "white male default" ... which basically means that a lot of diagnostic criteria is based on "what that thing looks like in the average white bloke". My daughter for example is Autistic but we were very lucky to have a good paediatrician with a holistic approach, because she doesn't fit the "diagnostic criteria" in MANY ways, and that's true for a lot of her female classmates in special education. The "outline of what autism with learning disability looks like" is based on a) boys and yes b) white boys. Sadly that also means a lot of the "standard" education in LD services is geared towards that and significant adjustment is needed to fit anyone else. I think that probably applies all across clinical mental health so it's worth considering if it's really "more men are afflicted with X" and not simply "more men are diagnosed with X".

I already said depression can be extremely deep. That’s why I only talked about mild depression specifically when I mentioned depression. I did say that.

The severer endogenous forms of depression (I like to dub them as melancholia) are up there with other severe mental conditions. The only mild thing about depression is mild depression itself.

[Redway]

Whereabouts do you think your daughter would be on the ASD spectrum if it wasn’t for her learning difficulties, by the way?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Redway

Whereabouts do you think your daughter would be on the ASD spectrum if it wasn’t for her learning difficulties, by the way?

It’s very difficult to say because her main learning disability is verbal language, which makes it hard to know what else is inherent, and what is just down to the communication difficulty. She can have sensory and OCD issues but generally only when stressed. She doesn’t seem to have much of any intellectual disability (in terms of “mental age” etc.) as she has always had age-appropriate drawing skills, problem solving skills, personal interests etc. but again very difficult to assess because of her language issues.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It’s very difficult to say because her main learning disability is verbal language, which makes it hard to know what else is inherent, and what is just down to the communication difficulty. She can have sensory and OCD issues but generally only when stressed. She doesn’t seem to have much of any intellectual disability (in terms of “mental age” etc.) as she has always had age-appropriate drawing skills, problem solving skills, personal interests etc. but again very difficult to assess because of her language issues.

Do you use Makaton to communicate?