[Nicky91]

Netherlands: care homes deaths because of covid is back to where it first was at its peak of second wave last year

out of vaccinated elderly in those care homes, 22% dies after a covid infection


970 care homes in the last 4 weeks there have been positive covid tests


in most locations as of today the first care home elderly will get their booster jab

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Cherie

its a case of damned if they do, and damned if they don't, I think it is sensible to take precautions while we don't know anything about the disease, each country is responsible for their own citizens, and while the news out of SA seems positive, we have to do our own due diligence.

But nobody is stopping anyone from taking their own precautions, the problem comes from making everyone have to take them. Some people would prefer to live their lives. Some people don't want to lose money by having to turn away custom. Some people are just not that fearful.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Alf

But nobody is stopping anyone from taking their own precautions, the problem comes from making everyone have to take them. Some people would prefer to live their lives. Some people don't want to lose money by having to turn away custom. Some people are just not that fearful.

well Alf

if people were taking their own precautions, thinking themselves of wearing a face masks

then the government does not have to force these measures onto anyone


and it shouldn't be seen as taking people's freedoms away but it should be seen as wanting to keep everyone safe

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

well Alf

if people were taking their own precautions, thinking themselves of wearing a face masks

then the government does not have to force these measures onto anyone


and it shouldn't be seen as taking people's freedoms away but it should be seen as wanting to keep everyone safe

If you want to keep everyone safe. OK then. Get rid of all food that is bad for you everything with sugar in, all take-aways, all burger joints, all coffee shops, all alcohol. Get rid of all transport. I could go on, but you get the point. There's more chance of people under pensioner age dying from being struck by lightning than dying with these virus's.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Alf

But nobody is stopping anyone from taking their own precautions, the problem comes from making everyone have to take them. Some people would prefer to live their lives. Some people don't want to lose money by having to turn away custom. Some people are just not that fearful.

I am not stopping anyone, I tailor the guidance to suit myself, I am not fearful, in fact I am off to Spain hopefully just after Christmas, not sure where you are getting this idea that everyone is living in fear

[Cherie]

Also you know as well as I do Alf you wont be forced to wear a mask, if you tell the bus driver you are exempt on you will get, you wont be challenged

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I am not stopping anyone, I tailor the guidance to suit myself, I am not fearful, in fact I am off to Spain hopefully just after Christmas, not sure where you are getting this idea that everyone is living in fear

It's lengths people have gone to for a virus with an over 99% recovery rate that makes me think people are living in fear.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Alf

It's lengths people have gone to for a virus with an over 99% recovery rate that makes me think people are living in fear.

You talk a lot about fear Alf but it often seems to me that it's all just different types of fear. Yes there are people who are over-the-top fearful of Covid and live in fear of it ... but honestly, likewise there are people who are clearly also living in fear - of the restrictions (and vaccines, etc.) - in a really over-the-top way. Seems quite clear that those people are also scared. Just of something else . Lots of fear going around. Not enough people just moderately and accurately assessing the situation for what it is.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You talk a lot about fear Alf but it often seems to me that it's all just different types of fear. Yes there are people who are over-the-top fearful of Covid and live in fear of it ... but honestly, likewise there are people who are clearly also living in fear - of the restrictions (and vaccines, etc.) - in a really over-the-top way. Seems quite clear that those people are also scared. Just of something else . Lots of fear going around. Not enough people just moderately and accurately assessing the situation for what it is.

Most definitely. I'm certainly fearful of where this is leading to.

[bitontheslide]

i don't think there is enough discussion on the effect the last 2 years has had on mental health, and the implications of it will go on for decades.

Fear is very real and it has been perpetuated and exacerbated by the media. The world needs to be weaned off from this fear ... whatever the manifestation of it is. It's the single most important aspect and also the aspect least discussed.

[LeatherTrumpet]

so id imagine this new strain is compliments of Cop 26?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

i don't think there is enough discussion on the effect the last 2 years has had on mental health, and the implications of it will go on for decades.

Fear is very real and it has been perpetuated and exacerbated by the media. The world needs to be weaned off from this fear ... whatever the manifestation of it is. It's the single most important aspect and also the aspect least discussed.

That would be my concern too. I'm not going to pretend that the knock-on effects from Covid and how it's been handled aren't huge and won't continue to be devastating. Mental health services are already run off their feet and it's only going to get worse. The backlog of non-covid medical procedures is absolutely INSANE at this point - I probably have permanent damage to my foot that could have been avoided if I'd been triaged properly and seen promptly when I injured it, instead of getting a diagnosis nearly 4 months later (far too late for the immediate intervention that would have been needed for the best outcome). Also my daughter has issues with her ear and has just got her ENT appointment through this week. ... ... we were referred in November 2019! 2 years ago! And obviously a myriad of other examples of the damage done to healthcare, the economy, society in general etc.

I guess where I differ from Alf is that I think all of this damage has been done because no one knows what they're doing and everyone including the experts have just been running around flailing their arms and trying to look like they're in control of the situation. I think it's 95% incompetence... whereas a lot of the "theories" that go around about it try to suggest that it's all deliberate and there are sinister people out there with grand master plans for all of us. I just don't think that's the case. There are selfish, greedy people (politicians, corporations, etc.) muddling through and looking out for their own arses first and foremost. The level of dedication and organisation that would be required for it to be some huge illuminati plot ... ... I just don't see that anywhere. I find that almost scarier to be honest. That it isn't "bad people who know exactly what they're doing". It's just that absolutely NO ONE has any idea what they're doing. That has become abundantly clear over the last few years. The world has clearly always just been "muddling through" and getting by on a wish and a prayer ... no one knows what they're doing, no one is in charge, everyone is ****ing winging it.

That is terrifying.

[arista]

[COVID-19: Community transmission suspected as
UK Omicron cases detected with no travel history
Some of the cases in Scotland
are thought to have no known travel history,
suggesting they could have been transmitted
within the country.]

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...s-say-12482070

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That would be my concern too. I'm not going to pretend that the knock-on effects from Covid and how it's been handled aren't huge and won't continue to be devastating. Mental health services are already run off their feet and it's only going to get worse. The backlog of non-covid medical procedures is absolutely INSANE at this point - I probably have permanent damage to my foot that could have been avoided if I'd been triaged properly and seen promptly when I injured it, instead of getting a diagnosis nearly 4 months later (far too late for the immediate intervention that would have been needed for the best outcome). Also my daughter has issues with her ear and has just got her ENT appointment through this week. ... ... we were referred in November 2019! 2 years ago! And obviously a myriad of other examples of the damage done to healthcare, the economy, society in general etc.

I guess where I differ from Alf is that I think all of this damage has been done because no one knows what they're doing and everyone including the experts have just been running around flailing their arms and trying to look like they're in control of the situation. I think it's 95% incompetence... whereas a lot of the "theories" that go around about it try to suggest that it's all deliberate and there are sinister people out there with grand master plans for all of us. I just don't think that's the case. There are selfish, greedy people (politicians, corporations, etc.) muddling through and looking out for their own arses first and foremost. The level of dedication and organisation that would be required for it to be some huge illuminati plot ... ... I just don't see that anywhere. I find that almost scarier to be honest. That it isn't "bad people who know exactly what they're doing". It's just that absolutely NO ONE has any idea what they're doing. That has become abundantly clear over the last few years. The world has clearly always just been "muddling through" and getting by on a wish and a prayer ... no one knows what they're doing, no one is in charge, everyone is ****ing winging it.

That is terrifying.

Keep an eye on news about China.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Alf

Keep an eye on news about China.

I think China have plenty of sinister motivations and some worrying intentions but what stops me from entering panic mode about China is that something would have to change incredibly dramatically for it to be an actual active risk in The West. Why? Because they have been very clear for decades about wanting Taiwan back under direct control of China, and the same with Hong Kong, and thus far they have been unable to make that happen with Taiwan and whilst they now technically have control of Hong Kong, the day-to-day reality is that life in Hong Kong remains extremely westernised and doesn't even come close to resembling life in most Chinese cities... and that doesn't look to be changing any time soon.

So if they haven't managed to make a power grab on these things, that are right on their doorstep, have basically zero relative power, and they've been openly seeking for many many years ... I find it extremely unlikely that they're suddenly going to achieve world conquest. They have far too many issues domestically to even begin. They are massively reliant on other nations for food and even water supplies for example. This is why they're always been content to let Taiwan continue self governance whislt insisting that it isn't a real country. They COULD take it by force - it's not in their best interests when they can just say "It's still part of China so there.". They can't realistically expand their borders at all let alone start marching west.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

i don't think there is enough discussion on the effect the last 2 years has had on mental health, and the implications of it will go on for decades.

Fear is very real and it has been perpetuated and exacerbated by the media. The world needs to be weaned off from this fear ... whatever the manifestation of it is. It's the single most important aspect and also the aspect least discussed.

Denise is someone from the celebrity scene who raises discussion on this fairly regularly.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Alf

Denise is someone from the celebrity scene who raises discussion on this fairly regularly.

sorry but this seems completely OTT

plus she want PCR tests on day 2 and day 8 if they have to isolate anyway why the need to PCR on day 2?

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Cherie

sorry but this seems completely OTT

plus she want PCR tests on day 2 and day 8 if they have to isolate anyway why the need to PCR on day 2?

Not quite as bad as Australia, whose knee was (is?) firmly pressed down on its people's knecks, but still way overboard.

[arista]

3PM Van Tam Covid News Conference
Downing St.

Then 3:30PM
Health Secretary in Parliament.

[Nicky91]

Netherlands todays hospitalisation and ICU total numbers (new cases bit delayed)

2.772 total hospitalisations (increase of 130 new patients, highest increase since January 4th)

563 total on ICU's/ventilators (increase of 12 new patients)

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by arista

3PM Van Tam Covid News Conference
Downing St.

Then 3:30PM
Health Secretary in Parliament.

is that going to be opening up the booster to over 30's?

[arista]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

is that going to be opening up the booster to over 30's?

Yes could be

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[parmnion]

Dezzy must have the age demographic of all the unvaccinated to make such a bold claim..

Can you post link to your findings please dezzy

[arista]

Live on all 3 News Channels.

[Professor Jonathan Van-Tam
is appearing alongside Professor Wei Shen Lim,
from the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immnunisation (JCVI),
and Dr June Raine, the chief executive of the
Medicines and Healthcare product Regulatory Agency (MHRA).]