[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

A woman is someone that looks like Rihanna.



If this post ever hit Twitter I'm probably cancelled within a second.



You gotta love Twitter though with how self-righteous they are, yet they bully people on and off the site that they deem to be "bad" people, you gotta love the irony, especially in the J.K Rowling case where I personally have mixed feelings on her opinions of Trans women, but the abuse that some of these "good" people have given her don't come across as very noble to me for some reason.

Which parts of what JK Rowling said do you not agree with can I ask? Just out of curiosity

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Which parts of what JK Rowling said do you not agree with can I ask? Just out of curiosity

Well didn't she like some anti-trans group or am I mixing that up with someone else?

The main point I agree with her on and I'm saying this with no intention to offend anyone, but I personally am not comfortable with Trans women who have high testosterone levels beating the **** out of Cis women in Boxing matches, fair enough if people see me as Transphobic for that opinion, but I don't feel comfortable with it.

No offence to Scarlett who I see as a good friend on here, but it just doesn't make me feel comfortable personally, I understand though that I'm just one person so who cares.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Well didn't she like some anti-trans group or am I mixing that up with someone else?



The main point I agree with her on and I'm saying this with no intention to offend anyone, but I personally am not comfortable with Trans women who have high testosterone levels beating the **** out of Cis women in Boxing matches, fair enough if people see me as Transphobic for that opinion, but I don't feel comfortable with it.



No offence to Scarlett who I see as a good friend on here, but it just doesn't make me feel comfortable personally, I understand though that I'm just one person so who cares.

I'm not sure what "anti-trans" group you mean but you did say her opinions so I wondered what she had said that you disagree with?

[Mitchell]

To me, it’s exactly the same as who a man is, someone who identifies in that way.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Mitchell

To me, it’s exactly the same as who a man is, someone who identifies in that way.

In what way?

[thesheriff443]

Every answer is correct based on a person’s belief

If you believe something to be true then for you it is the correct answer even though it can be proven to be wrong
But even when the answer can be proven to wrong it’s only wrong because you believe your answer to be right

[glib]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Every answer is correct based on a person’s belief

If you believe something to be true then for you it is the correct answer even though it can be proven to be wrong
But even when the answer can be proven to wrong it’s only wrong because you believe your answer to be right

You are wrong

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by glib

You are wrong

Only because you believe you to be right

Let’s go back to the beginning before words existed
What if the words we use are wrong

[Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

In what way?

If they identify as female and that’s how they feel most comfortable, then that’s good for me, same as if they identify as male, or non binary.

[glib]

Originally Posted by Mitchell

If they identify as female and that’s how they feel most comfortable, then that’s good for me, same as if they identify as male, or non binary.

So if I identify as female tomorrow , then commit crime, does that give me privilege to go to a woman’s prison , because I identify as a woman, and therefore I am a woman?

Just like the 60 year old pedo a few weeks ago did…

[Mitchell]

Originally Posted by glib

So if I identify as female tomorrow , then commit crime, does that give me privilege to go to a woman’s prison , because I identify as a woman, and therefore I am a woman?

Just like the 60 year old pedo a few weeks ago did…

I don’t particularly know much about the judiciary system, so don’t feel qualified to answer that, I do know that it’s a complex issue, and one that I certainly wouldn’t be able to resolve.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

This goes for both parties sadly.

No

Kier Strarmer backs Women that are still
men.


He is Bonkers


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58698406

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'm not sure what "anti-trans" group you mean but you did say her opinions so I wondered what she had said that you disagree with?

I thought she had a link to a website that sold anti-Trans T-shirts or something like that.

And didn't she also say that "real women menstrate" which biologically is obviously true, but I can definitely understand why Trans-women might get offended at that comment.

But on the other hand, I do also understand some of her arguments, I think personally that we need a third school of certain Sports where Trans Women and Cis Women that volunteer to take part can take part, and the Cis Women that feel uncomfortable with competing against Trans Women get to take part in the Cis Women competition.

And I'd consider maybe adding the mix Cis/Trans Women as a third Bathroom option for Trans Women to use obviously, but any Cis Women that don't mind sharing a Bathroom with Trans Women can also use the facility as well if they wish.

Because let's be brutally honest here people, J.K Rowling isn't the only person in the Cis Woman community to feel uncomfortable about these topics, and it does need to be addressed without people threatening her on Twitter.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Mitchell

I don’t particularly know much about the judiciary system, so don’t feel qualified to answer that, I do know that it’s a complex issue, and one that I certainly wouldn’t be able to resolve.

Oh this whole thing is a minefield, it's why I normally try to stay away from conflict on this topic as understandably two groups that have only recently in Human history been granted equality both have their rights put at risk, and I'm not apart of either group so my opinions on this topic are probably way off base as to what should happen.

It's why I personally hope that eventually Boris can come up with a solution to this problem in this country, but like you I have no real idea how to resolve the problem.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by arista

No

Kier Strarmer backs Women that are still
men.


He is Bonkers


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58698406

What's wrong with Trans Women in your eyes Arista? To me in most areas they are perfectly fine, and I'm guessing that it's probably similar for Keir Starmer?

[Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Oh this whole thing is a minefield, it's why I normally try to stay away from conflict on this topic as understandably two groups that have only recently in Human history been granted equality both have their rights put at risk, and I'm not apart of either group so my opinions on this topic are probably way off base as to what should happen.

It's why I personally hope that eventually Boris can come up with a solution to this problem in this country, but like you I have no real idea how to resolve the problem.

As a cis male, I have absolutely no issue sharing a bathroom or a changing room with trans men, obviously if they’re then committing crimes against other people, that’s a completely different issue, but I feel like everyone deserves to be comfortable and safe, regardless of their gender identity.

With your last point, I’d hope that someone with actual respect for cis women and trans people would find a solution, rather than a notorious bigot.

[Jordan.]

Originally Posted by glib

So if I identify as female tomorrow , then commit crime, does that give me privilege to go to a woman’s prison , because I identify as a woman, and therefore I am a woman?

Just like the 60 year old pedo a few weeks ago did…

For every one person going lengths to find an exploit to abuse women there are thousands that use no excuse. Of course the former makes for the best clickbaity articles though.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Mitchell

As a cis male, I have absolutely no issue sharing a bathroom or a changing room with trans men, obviously if they’re then committing crimes against other people, that’s a completely different issue, but I feel like everyone deserves to be comfortable and safe, regardless of their gender identity.

With your last point, I’d hope that someone with actual respect for cis women and trans people would find a solution, rather than a notorious bigot.

I agree with your first point from my perspective anyway.

And I agree with you on your last point too, it's just at the moment we've got to hope that Boris can show a shred of decency to both groups.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

What's wrong with Trans Women in your eyes Arista? To me in most areas they are perfectly fine, and I'm guessing that it's probably similar for Keir Starmer?

Nothing wrong with them


But a Political Group
have messed it all up.


Starmer & Labour MP's are alone with his views
trying to get votes


You made an error
Both parties are not alike on this topic

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by arista

Nothing wrong with them


But a Political Group
have messed it all up.


Starmer & Labour MP's are alone with his views
trying to get votes


You made an error
Both parties are not alike on this topic

I meant that both parties are crap in general.

I think I misunderstood your original post, sorry about that.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

I meant that both parties are crap in general.

I think I misunderstood your original post, sorry about that.

OK

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Mitchell

If they identify as female and that’s how they feel most comfortable, then that’s good for me, same as if they identify as male, or non binary.

The question being asked though is what does that mean. What does it mean to "feel like (identify as) a woman", or a man? Without resorting to stereotypes or (frankly, massively problematic) historical social norms, what does identifying as a woman mean?

I have my own thoughts on it, and there is some debate and nuance to it, for those who are willing to actually delve into the philosophy of gender (ironically, most trans and non-binary people seem not to be willing to ) however to be completely blunt, the vast majority of trans women I see are massively embroiled in roleplaying a heavily stereotyped version of what they believe a woman is/does/looks like. Not all, mind, but the vast majority - or at least the vast majority of those who are very visible, so maybe there's something else in that.

And yes, it was a conscious choice there to say "trans women" and not "trans people" because the psychosocial reasons for Female to Male transition are for the mostpart completely different and rooted in something else entirely. VERY SADLY the reasons that young females might find themselves wishing away their gender are really ****ing obvious.

As for non-binary? My honest opinion? These are just people who don't feel firmly rooted in either gender stereotype but don't have the wisdom or introspective ability to realise that that is true of everyone who hasn't been sucked in by the social myth of gender norms. Do I "feel like a man"? No! What does that mean?? Am I a blokey bloke? No! I don't want to be! Am I non-binary? By the definition that I see other people put on it? Apparently yes. So is my wife . And yet no I'm male, and a man, and there's no reason to see it any other way, and it doesn't mean I have to "do man stuff" and never has.

This applies to a huge proportion of the population. I often get the impression that the gender-obsessed think it doesn't, and that "most cis men" are archetypal men and "most cis women" are archetypal women.

But then, that's because most non-binary people are in their teens and early 20's and (as a statistical fact) a small proportion become trans, the VAST majority revert to the gender correlating to their natal sex, and only an absolutely tiny number remain non-binary into full adulthood. Going to be totally blunt here: most of those people are extremely messy adults. The argument will be that "some sort of mistreatment because of their nonbinaryness caused them other mental health problems". Which is absolute horse****. Absolutely no evidence of this at all.

But yeah to be blunt/short most people move away from the non-binary lable when they grow up enough to develop a nuanced understanding of gender roles and realise that being a female who plays football and has short hair but also likes to wear dresses and party doesn't make them "somewhere between male and female".


ANYWAY, I'm ranting on a bit.

Honestly I think you're avoiding the question of "what does feeling like a woman/man/non-binary actually mean" because you probably know you can't do it without spouting stereotypes and you're of the opinion that it's better to just "accept whatever people want to say about themselves without question because that's kind and comfortable for everyone". A cornerstone of hyperindividualism.

[Toy Soldier]

For the record, by the way;

I don't think men and women are 100% the same - and I do believe that genuine trans genderism / gender dysphoria is very real.

However it is my experience that those people are generally either quietly getting on with their lives as they please, or are willing to actually talk about the issues and recognise the need for open dialogue.

And then... ohhh, and then... [trigger warning] ... there is a not small number of fetishists, narcissists and frankly mentally unwell people who are engaging in fantasy - often overtly sexualised fantasy - and spinning entire bizarre narratives, and demanding damaging social change, without debare, without evidence, and hiding behind genuine trans people and genuine gender dysphoria in order to quite simply do whatever the **** they want without scrutiny. And then you have people so firmly committed to the hyperindividualism zeitgeist that they CAN NOT and WILL NOT accept valid criticism, to the extent that you can present them with footage of clearly mentally ill individuals, and examples of predatory behaviour, and they will try to find a way to say "it's fine". It's a ****ing train wreck.

[Oliver_W]

Re the prison thing ...

Most men (including transwomen) who are in jail are there for violent or sexual crimes, while most women in jail are largely victims of circumstance, and they certainly don't need to be locked up with males.

[LeatherTrumpet]

if its semantics and what you belive id imagine if you said your neighbour said they beleived that they owned your car and would like the keys and said that they dont recognise your ownership

you would say f off?