[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Liam-

But yeah, let’s agree with things that are undoubtedly going to damage an entire community because some people aren’t comfortable with trans people, I mean if only gay and trans people just shut up and sat in the corner somewhere right? Then we wouldn’t be targeted constantly, obviously our fault, silly us.

Most of the vitriol seems to be a direct result of "activism" and look-at-me behaviour, so if LGBT people just tried to exist and live their lives, people wouldn't be reacting.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Whoever posted that is clearly an idiot and doesn’t understand what transgender really is

I think most people understand what actual transgenderism is, in concept. The culture, the cult of hyperindividualism, that has blown up over the last 5 years is something completely different and yes it is going to be damaging to the entire LGBTQ community. That's not "OK" but it's a fact.

I don't agree at all with this bull**** in florida, it's an absolute disaster for young people who are going to be hitting the age where they're trying to understand their sexuality, but at some point you have to put on your pragmatist hat and realise that it's a backlash to something that's gone completely off the rails.

The argument against it from those who are clearly more moderate, yet still supportive of it, is this blinkered "but this isn't happening, that isn't happening, that clearly won't happen" about things that are already happening .

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Most of the vitriol seems to be a direct result of "activism" and look-at-me behaviour, so if LGBT people just tried to exist and live their lives, people wouldn't be reacting.

Imagine having to ‘try and exist and live their lives’

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

Imagine advocating for gay kids to be outed by their teachers though. That’s horrendous

Originally Posted by Glenn.

Imagine having to ‘try and exist and live their lives’

Imagine all the people
Livin' life in peace

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

Imagine having to ‘try and exist and live their lives’

It's very easy to do just that

[Ninastar]

Elementary school aged kids shouldn’t be learning about LGBT opinions/issues imo

Also I was just in Florida last month and there was gay stuff everywhere. Granted it was Disney/Orlando but I saw pride things everywhere and also saw at least like 10+ gay couples. It was nice tbh.

I went with my partner and not one person gave us any abuse about being a gay couple. It was a super pleasant trip and I was nervous about going because I haven’t really done anything so ~public~ with her but honestly it was just like any other day

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

Imagine having to ‘try and exist and live their lives’

This is making life harder for them though. I don't like to "play the card" often but it's relevant here - my daughter (early teens) is gay, has gay friends, non-binary friends, etc. The school is very pro-LGBTQ+ and inclusive, hosts clubs, things like that which is all great.

Except here's the uncomfortable truth;

The gay kids don't use the LGBTQ+ clubs any more. Gay male kids have abandonned them entirely, lesbian kids have held out for longer but have given up. Because the clubs have been entirely taken over by, in the words of my daughter and her friends who are gay and have tried going along, "kids who are just looking for attention, changing their name and their pronouns every few days". They make their own groups and hang out elsewhere.

These are the messy kids from her primary school, who (and I'm not without sympathy here) come from very complex home backgrounds and have many complicated things going on. But when they were 7, they were telling people that their dad was secretly a millionare from Australia. When they were 10, they were telling everyone they had cancer. And now they're 13 and Polly is telling everyone she's now a he, and now Paul. Then people get used to them being Paul and are fine with it and the attention dies off - so they become "P", and genderless. And then everyone gets used to "P" and suddenly "P" has something else going on. This isn't one kid, this is a lot of kids... it's kids with issues.

I believe gender dysphoria is real. I believe transexuality is a real thing. I believe it's been hijacked by something completely different and in a panic to ensure we all stay "affirming and inclusive" that's being ignored... to the detriment of other LGBT kids, and ultimately to the detriment of those kids themselves, as their very real issues (that have NOTHING to do with their sexuality or gender identity) are buried and ignored under a torrent of performative nonsense. From teachers. Grown-ass adults. It's a ****ing disgrace.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Ben takes aim:

Youtube video

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

It's very easy to do just that

Well… not if you’re about and they're self-identifying as something you don’t understand…

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

This is making life harder for them though. I don't like to "play the card" often but it's relevant here - my daughter (early teens) is gay, has gay friends, non-binary friends, etc. The school is very pro-LGBTQ+ and inclusive, hosts clubs, things like that which is all great.

Except here's the uncomfortable truth;

The gay kids don't use the LGBTQ+ clubs any more. Gay male kids have abandonned them entirely, lesbian kids have held out for longer but have given up. Because the clubs have been entirely taken over by, in the words of my daughter and her friends who are gay and have tried going along, "kids who are just looking for attention, changing their name and their pronouns every few days". They make their own groups and hang out elsewhere.

These are the messy kids from her primary school, who (and I'm not without sympathy here) come from very complex home backgrounds and have many complicated things going on. But when they were 7, they were telling people that their dad was secretly a millionare from Australia. When they were 10, they were telling everyone they had cancer. And now they're 13 and Polly is telling everyone she's now a he, and now Paul. Then people get used to them being Paul and are fine with it and the attention dies off - so they become "P", and genderless. And then everyone gets used to "P" and suddenly "P" has something else going on. This isn't one kid, this is a lot of kids... it's kids with issues.

I believe gender dysphoria is real. I believe transexuality is a real thing. I believe it's been hijacked by something completely different and in a panic to ensure we all stay "affirming and inclusive" that's being ignored... to the detriment of other LGBT kids, and ultimately to the detriment of those kids themselves, as their very real issues (that have NOTHING to do with their sexuality or gender identity) are buried and ignored under a torrent of performative nonsense. From teachers. Grown-ass adults. It's a ****ing disgrace.

How strange… I’m an ocean away from you and we have a similar situation here. My OH has kids and the oldest is a young teen and her friends are all super gay friendly and support the lgbt community, but apparently there’s a few kids who don’t identify as anything (which, fair goes to them) but they are also the bully of the classrooms…

In recent years (and this is just my opinion, not fact or anything) I’ve found that kids (and also internet culture) seem to think you can have an opinion on X if you aren’t X

And to me that isn’t right because you can believe in other causes that you aren’t a part of. It makes you an ally and our allies are just as important. We wouldn’t get anywhere in life without them.

Basically what I’m saying is that there’s this kid who identifies as X and they treat other kids like crap because the other kids ‘have no idea what it’s like to be a minority’

And it’s just crazy to me that it’s okay for kids to be taught and think this way

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Withano

Well… not if you’re about and they're self-identifying as something you don’t understand…

like a cat?

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

like a cat?

Well, quite people "identifying as" and trying to live as the sex they aren't is one thing, and a thing most people don't give a stuff about.
But trying to force the ideology into public discourse and especially schools is where the problem lies. Especially when it comes to stupid nonsensical labels.

[Toy Soldier]

I think that's the crux of it really. Gender identity is a philosophical ideology... In fact the entire concept of gender is, literally, a philosophical ideology. There is of course nothing WRONG with philosophical ideologies and all people hold all sorts of ideologies, but when it comes to an educational setting, they should only ever be DISCUSSED... Not dictated... And respectfully stated alternate viewpoints should always be OK. That's what we seem to have lost.