[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

I think it is relevant to the trial because it paints the picture needed as to whether he was a 'wife beater ' and consequently whether the article was correct or not.

You need substance to determine that and hence how on depth they have gotten with the trial.

I can't say whether he hit or abused her, but so much evidence, imo, along with expert opinion paints Amber as someone who was really histrionic, manipulative and a malingerer. I'm finding it hard of evidence towards the contrary apart from texts I have seen from Johnny which are disgusting, two of which he says he did not send.

Ok but even if we accept the premise as true (that she was awful and driving him mad) … and even if it would somewhat explain him losing his head … does the increasing volume of evidence that she made his life miserable not make you think “maybe he did end up retaliating”?

Even if one does find that justified (I personally don’t think ANY violence is ever justified, but could sometimes be explainable - but I know there’s varying thoughts on that) then, again, that’s all that matters in THIS case. All of the rest of it would matter if he was on trial for assault; he is not. If he was on trial FOR hitting her, showing that she had pushed him to the edge would be hugely relevant. But it’s a libel trial and in that sense, their actual behaviour and character doesn’t matter at all. Again I honestly the think the worse they make her seem, the more realistic it becomes (even to a Depp supporter) that he eventually lashed out… and that’s all that matters. If he did, she wasn’t lying, the claim of libel is thrown out… no one is going to jail.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

That would be racist.

You've just ignored everything else I wrote though about the definition of misogyny though.

Can you provide evidence of where Johnny Depp has shown other hatred towards women?

If I can see a reoccurring theme where he has then I may change my opinion that he is not misogynistic towards women

So one simple comment "black ****" is racist all on it's own, no other history of racism or hatred towards black people needed, but Depp's words which are all much harsher and focused on her womanhood are not misogynistic unless there's well documented proof of him hating women? How do you reconcile those two opinions in your head Thomas. I don't understand it?

I don't follow JD's life enough to give you any examples outside of what's been said in this thread however I can give you 2 examples solely from this thread, which imo is pretty good going.

1. The other text to Paul Bettany where he says he wants to **** her corpse after he burns her to make sure she's dead

2. If what TS said is true about him defending Roman polanski then that is a pretty stark example right there

[Niamh.]

But to add, I don't think you need any proof that someones hates women to think that something they said is misogynistic in the same way I don't need to know anything about a persons attitudes toward black people in everyday life to think that calling someone a black **** is racist

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Alf

There's another court case been happening while everyone's been distracted with this showbiz one.

Hillary Clinton isn't coming out of it too well. That's why you're watching this one.

Yes I know, I would MUCH rather have seen that one play out in public

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

So one simple comment "black ****" is racist all on it's own, no other history of racism or hatred towards black people needed, but Depp's words which are all much harsher and focused on her womanhood are not misogynistic unless there's well documented proof of him hating women? How do you reconcile those two opinions in your head Thomas. I don't understand it?

I don't follow JD's life enough to give you any examples outside of what's been said in this thread however I can give you 2 examples solely from this thread, which imo is pretty good going.

1. The other text to Paul Bettany where he says he wants to **** her corpse after he burns her to make sure she's dead

2. If what TS said is true about him defending Roman polanski then that is a pretty stark example right there

And just so we're clear, he's basically saying he would rape her there in that one.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

But to add, I don't think you need any proof that someones hates women to think that something they said is misogynistic in the same way I don't need to know anything about a persons attitudes toward black people in everyday life to think that calling someone a black **** is racist

Again I think it just comes down to the phrasing; I think you need some pretty solid ongoing evidence to say to someone, “you are a racist”, “you are a misogynist”, “you are a homophobe” - those are big claims and that’s actually something I learned on here (hashing out epic thread with ol Kirk Lancaster).

But you can point out someone’s misogyny (or racism, or homophobia) in their words and actions without making it core to them as an individual.

Depp’s text message to me highlight a clear indication that he holds some angry misogynistic thoughts. Does that mean I think he “hates all women”? Absolutely not, but I think it plays heavily into the things he has to say about Heard.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Again I think it just comes down to the phrasing; I think you need some pretty solid ongoing evidence to say to someone, “you are a racist”, “you are a misogynist”, “you are a homophobe” - those are big claims and that’s actually something I learned on here (hashing out epic thread with ol Kirk Lancaster).

But you can point out someone’s misogyny (or racism, or homophobia) in their words and actions without making it core to them as an individual.

Depp’s text message to me highlight a clear indication that he holds some angry misogynistic thoughts. Does that mean I think he “hates all women”? Absolutely not, but I think it plays heavily into the things he has to say about Heard.

Absolutely.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Depp’s text message to me highlight a clear indication

Just to clarify, this was some poor punctuation, it should say “Depp’s text messages, to me, highlight…”

I was not claiming that Johnny Depp has been texting me .

…not about the trial anyway, he did send me an unsolicited picture of his cock dressed up as Captain Jack Sparrow .


..

Disclaimer in case he’s reading this: the above is intended as a joke, please do not sue me for libel Johnny Depp. I don’t have Ł50 million.

[Niamh.]

[Vanessa]

Some people think it could be a hung jury.
I also don't think they will all agree.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

Some people think it could be a hung jury.
I also don't think they will all agree.

What happens if it's a hung jury? Do they have to start the whole thing again with a new Jury?

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

What happens if it's a hung jury? Do they have to start the whole thing again with a new Jury?

There could be another trial.
Or Johnny's camp could decide not to bother.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

There could be another trial.
Or Johnny's camp could decide not to bother.

Oh Lord, please no

[Vanessa]

There are rumours that Amber is blackmailing Elon Musk. If this is true or not, I don't know.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

There are rumours that Amber is blackmailing Elon Musk. If this is true or not, I don't know.

Remember no believing rumours without hard evidence

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

There are rumours that Amber is blackmailing Elon Musk. If this is true or not, I don't know.

Utter nonsense, with the sort of money and influence he has he could make her evaporate over night.

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Remember no believing rumours without hard evidence

Yeah, I know. I'm not sure about that.
But Elon Musk did make charity donations in her name. The detective in me is suspicious

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Utter nonsense, with the sort of money and influence he has he could make her evaporate over night.

I really hope you're right.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

Yeah, I know. I'm not sure about that.
But Elon Musk did make charity donations in her name. The detective in me is suspicious

If it is true though and he is actually paying her to keep quiet about something then it must be pretty bad

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

If it is true though and he is actually paying her to keep quiet about something then it must be pretty bad

It's all over twitter. I can't write it here, it's that bad.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

It's all over twitter. I can't write it here, it's that bad.

goes to google.....BRB

[Vanessa]

I'm often on twitter to follow the soaps.
Lately people have been posting about the trail.

[Niamh.]

The article I found doesn't actually give much details other than Elon Musk(allegedly) has a morally questionable "kink"

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

The article I found doesn't actually give much details other than Elon Musk(allegedly) has a morally questionable "kink"

Apparently she has a video of him he's desperate it doesn't come out.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

So one simple comment "black ****" is racist all on it's own, no other history of racism or hatred towards black people needed, but Depp's words which are all much harsher and focused on her womanhood are not misogynistic unless there's well documented proof of him hating women? How do you reconcile those two opinions in your head Thomas. I don't understand it?

I don't follow JD's life enough to give you any examples outside of what's been said in this thread however I can give you 2 examples solely from this thread, which imo is pretty good going.

1. The other text to Paul Bettany where he says he wants to **** her corpse after he burns her to make sure she's dead

2. If what TS said is true about him defending Roman polanski then that is a pretty stark example right there

But it's all against one woman, that woman being Amber Heard.

Where we differ I think is in our definition of misogyny.

I have said numerous times that his comments are derogatory. Derogatory to women.

However, I don't think he is a misoginist because the definition of misogyny is a hatred towards women. There are no women, he's referring to Amber Heard. It's one woman.... So for those reasons I do not feel he meets the definition, neither do I think it's fair, that he is labelled a misogynist.

I have not defended his comments, I have tried to understand them and understood why he was angry and what might make him say those things. I do not condone his comments and think they're disgusting.

Difference with racism and homophobia is that the definitions of them and what would constitute racism and homophobia are different.