[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

That would be racist.

You've just ignored everything else I wrote though about the definition of misogyny though.

Can you provide evidence of where Johnny Depp has shown other hatred towards women?

If I can see a reoccurring theme where he has then I may change my opinion that he is not misogynistic towards women

Another thing aswell Thomas
Is the texts seem to have been misrepresented, JD's legal team didn't get a chance to check , because AH 's lawyer kept zooming through everything like a wasp on a sugar rush. He wouldn't even let JD finish his sentences.

I think when he referes to "Molly" it might actually be about drugs ,and not a particular woman. But I'm no drug expert. Also AH's legal team seem to have forgotten that JD also gets his assistants to send texts/ use his phone aswell .

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

Apparently she has a video of him he's desperate it doesn't come out.

Imagine if he had a video of her to blackmail her with,then suddenly It's ' misogyny' .

Also people think JD's insults are ' sexist' .

But both men & women get nasty and talk about eachothers private bits in arguments. And they both get mean about eachothers looks & weight & age .

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

But my racism example was just against one man?



The definition of misogyny is no different to the definition of racism though?
It's a hatred/prejudice based on a particular demographic that a person belongs to



So how can you think they're derogatory to women but not think they're misogynistic?



I never called him a misogynist though, I said his comments were misogynistic. As with racism, i don't need to know anything about a person's everyday attitudes and treatment of black people to think that a particular comment they made was racist.



I didn't say you defended his comments, I simply asked why you understood why he came out with them but you wouldn't have the same understanding if his comments had been racist or homophobic



Absolutely disagree

racism
/ˈreɪsɪz(ə)m/
Learn to pronounce
noun
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

Homophobia

Homophobia encompasses a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender.

Definition of misogyny
: hatred of, aversion to, or prejudice against women a culture that promotes violence and misogyny … battled the personal demons of alcoholism, racism, and misogyny.—


The first two can apply to one person
I am racist towards one person. I am homophobic towards one perso. ....or you are racist towards a group of people, you are homophobic towards a group of people.

Then there is misogyny. Misognyw is not towards a single person, it is a hatred towards women.

Really don't know how many times I need to say this and that is my reasoning behind my opinion that he is not a misoginist.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It doesn’t necessarily mean a hatred, just an ingrained prejudice, or feeling of superiority (no matter how subconscious) is a form of misogyny. Yes the word itself etymologically means “a hatred of” but it’s not a necessary part of the modern definition, any more than it’s necessary for someone to be fearful of gay people to make a homophobic joke. A phobia is a fear. And yes, plenty of prejudice against gay people is rooted in irrational fear, but certainly not all of it… plenty of arseholea out there happily throwing around jokes at gay peoples expense who have no literal fear whatsoever. It’s still appropriate to define their jokes as homophobia. Words don’t have to follow their etymology to the letter.

Yes hatred, prejudice, superiority. That's misogny towards women

[parmnion]

[QUOTE=GoldHeart;11169999

But both men & women get nasty and talk about eachothers private bits in arguments. And they both get mean about eachothers looks & weight & age .[/QUOTE]



Only in abusive relationships..

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

What I'm trying to say Thomas is yes the comment was directed at 1 woman he clearly has massive issues with but as TS said earlier, it isn't that I don't understand that people get angry and can say nasty things about a person they're angry with, but it was the specific words he used ie. his whole attack was focused on her sex rather than her being a terrible person which then makes it offensive to women in general, am I making any sense?

Yes total sense in what you have just said.

Maybe I'm being really pedantic, but it's not misogny still unless it can be proven that he has a hatred towards other women too which would then prove that he actually is a misoginist.

Yes it's offensive and derogatory towards woman, I've said that myself earlier in thread, but I'm not just going to throw out such a big world and label him a misoginist because of his arguments with his ex wife.

Also, re some texts you mentioned earlier I think. When they showed these in court to which Johnny said he'd never written them, above the text it said 'incoming' which suggests he did not type them.

He did admit to sending the fish market one though. But there were two others, one about Molly

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

I think Johnny may have won the case with that last cross.
Camilla was fantastic!

Camille is outstanding. Regardless that she is one of Johnny depps attorneys....she is amazing at her job.

Rudnick brown in general, the law firm hired by Johnny Depp, have a team of really good lawyers.

I think Amber has been let down by hers, but then I suppose you can only work with what you've got evidence wise.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Only in abusive relationships..

BS , it isn't always abusive relationships. It's pettiness from either being dumped or wanting attention etc.

Vardy among others have gotten nasty about bloke's manhood,and how "bad they are in bed" in gory details . Like any of us really want to hear that .

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

Yes total sense in what you have just said.

Maybe I'm being really pedantic, but it's not misogny still unless it can be proven that he has a hatred towards other women too which would then prove that he actually is a misoginist.

Yes it's offensive and derogatory towards woman, I've said that myself earlier in thread, but I'm not just going to throw out such a big world and label him a misoginist because of his arguments with his ex wife.

Also, re some texts you mentioned earlier I think. When they showed these in court to which Johnny said he'd never written them, above the text it said 'incoming' which suggests he did not type them.

He did admit to sending the fish market one though. But there were two others, one about Molly

I suppose we just disagree on how much proof is required… I personally don’t believe that any man would use the language that he used in those messages unless they had some disdain for women in general. Some might argue that “everyone gets like that in the heat of the moment” but it’s just not true… especially as it’s not something he spat AT her to hurt her - it’s things he said later, to one of his male pals.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

BS , it isn't always abusive relationships. It's pettiness from either being dumped or wanting attention etc.

Vardy among others have gotten nasty about bloke's manhood,and how "bad they are in bed" in gory details . Like any of us really want to hear that .

Was she arguing with her partner?

I think not.

But if you think calling someone hanging fanny in the middle of an argument is normal......!

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

BS , it isn't always abusive relationships. It's pettiness from either being dumped or wanting attention etc.

Vardy among others have gotten nasty about bloke's manhood,and how "bad they are in bed" in gory details . Like any of us really want to hear that .

Omg, critising a man's willy and how good he is in bed?

What's that called? Manisoginy?

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I suppose we just disagree on how much proof is required… I personally don’t believe that any man would use the language that he used in those messages unless they had some disdain for women in general. Some might argue that “everyone gets like that in the heat of the moment” but it’s just not true… especially as it’s not something he spat AT her to hurt her - it’s things he said later, to one of his male pals.

I'd say it needs to be more than one person to fairly say he has a hatred, superiority etc towards women.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

Omg, critising a man's willy and how good he is in bed?

What's that called? Manisoginy?

Apparently it's ok though .

Also what do people think when blokes get called "b1tch" & "cck suckers" , is that not an attack on their gender?? .

The funny thing is nobody is condoning JD's verbal insults , it's all out there and the whole thing is ugly . But I find it interesting, how AH can say & do anything and it gets brushed over . Even taking a dump in the bed .

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Apparently it's ok though .

Also what do people think when blokes get called "b1tch" & "cck suckers" , is that not an attack on their gender?? .

The funny thing is nobody is condoning JD's verbal insults , it's all out there and the whole thing is ugly . But I find it interesting, how AH can say & do anything and it gets brushed over . Even taking a dump in the bed .

TBF I think the amount of Amber Heard supporters is an extreme minority.

Law & Order on YouTibe which is one of the channels that broadcasts the live court feed has a live channel. Last couple of days there has been in excess of 1 million + viewers and there's live chat, 99% of those are supporting Depp.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Apparently it's ok though .

Also what do people think when blokes get called "b1tch" & "cck suckers" , is that not an attack on their gender?? .

The funny thing is nobody is condoning JD's verbal insults , it's all out there and the whole thing is ugly . But I find it interesting, how AH can say & do anything and it gets brushed over . Even taking a dump in the bed .

Also feminism and misogony has just got so out of hand it's ridiculous.

Words are thrown around left right and centre.

So much for a woman standing on their own two feet, it's crap.Power to the women who are strong and independent, not the bloody snowflakes who just use anything to scream labels

Man up as piers Morgan would say and have a stiff upper lip, you can't say anything these days and if you do you're labelled... Not talking about Johnny Depp or Amber Heard here but just generally.

[GoldHeart]

Yeah I've been watching the law & crime channel & the other live trial channel on YouTube. I think I've watched most of the trial now .

You're right about it taking over lives, I kept watching video after video and kept thinking I must go to sleep .

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Yeah I've been watching the law & crime channel & the other live trial channel on YouTube. I think I've watched most of the trial now .

You're right about it taking over lives, I kept watching video after video and kept thinking I must go to sleep .

I'm livid I'm working tomorrow and won't catch it live.

I'm going to have to find something else to occupy myself with after this trial.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

TBF I think the amount of Amber Heard supporters is an extreme minority.

Law & Order on YouTibe which is one of the channels that broadcasts the live court feed has a live channel. Last couple of days there has been in excess of 1 million + viewers and there's live chat, 99% of those are supporting Depp.

Obviously they support depp, just have a look at all that youtube channels mini clips, and especially the wording on the clips.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

Also feminism and misogony has just got so out of hand it's ridiculous.

Words are thrown around left right and centre.

So much for a woman standing on their own two feet, it's crap.Power to the women who are strong and independent, not the bloody snowflakes who just use anything to scream labels

Man up as piers Morgan would say

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

Also feminism and misogony has just got so out of hand it's ridiculous.

Words are thrown around left right and centre.

So much for a woman standing on their own two feet, it's crap.Power to the women who are strong and independent, not the bloody snowflakes who just use anything to scream labels

Man up as piers Morgan would say and have a stiff upper lip, you can't say anything these days and if you do you're labelled... Not talking about Johnny Depp or Amber Heard here but just generally.

You could have just said women are fair game but gay people and people of colour are not earlier on to save me wasting my time actually trying to have a discussion with you about it then.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

I'm livid I'm working tomorrow and won't catch it live.

I'm going to have to find something else to occupy myself with after this trial.

Just watch it back on the YouTube channels, that's what I'm going to do when I get home from work. But I'll probably watch it late in the night or Something.

[parmnion]

I wonder if he actually has brought up her sexual orientation in the past..her bisexualness for instance.

Do we think he may have called her a rug muncher or something like that in the past?

[GoldHeart]

Her hair looks like a ice cream swirl

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

You could have just said women are fair game but gay people and people of colour are not earlier on to save me wasting my time actually trying to have a discussion with you about it then.

Completely taken out of context.

My comments weren't referring to those who generally suffer, but how words can be thrown around so easily under the guise of something being misoginistic or anti-feminist.

Women want equality right, but then some can't handle it.

Cum guzzler, bitch, fanny sucker, small man syndrome, small willy etc etc... What we calling that? Derogatory language or am I a?? What??? A male version of a feminist towards men?

Yes some are misoginistic and of course it's a thing, but when is it actually genuinely a thing or used for someone to claim victim.....because I think it is misused and some women just can't handle equality and being treated with equality to the opposite sex.

Hope that explains my point I was trying to make....so no I don't just think women are fair game.

[Toy Soldier]

A bit fatalist surely to say that if people want equality, they should be equally open to abusive language? The comparative things you’re saying people say about men aren’t OK either.

One major difference that you might note though, is that when shaming language is used against women it’s usually centred around sex/their sexuality/their sexual worth/their worth to men in general.

When shaming language is used against men it’s usually centred around them being unmanly, or woman-like.

So supposedly the worst thing a woman can be , the thing that should be really offensive to them, is being sexually unappealing to men…and the worst thing a man can be is “not manly enough”.

These things bear some thinking about when trying to see how it’s different. And you can see why it makes it more similar to what minorities face. The shaming women, gay people, and racial minorities are subject to are for being what they ARE. The shaming men face is for being NOT ENOUGH of what they are.

Therein lies the inherent misogyny of western patriarchy.