[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

In my opinion, a libel case being decided on by a non-specialised jury is going to be dubious in terms of legal accuracy. In my opinion, an assessment of domestic violence made by a jury of non-specialised individuals is going to be dubious in terms of accuracy. I summed this up flippantly as “hillbillies”. My intent was to highlight that jury verdicts are far from gospel at the best of times, and when it’s something as nuanced as spousal abuse that’s even more the case. I don’t understand why the US does these trials as trial by jury and not a specialised expert court system, but that’s their business. I don’t have to put any stock at all in a decision made by some random people off the street. Random people off the street think TikToks about a domestic violence case are “good fun”.

Domestic abuse survivors should be able to speak openly about their experiences without a massive burden of proof that means they can be sued for not staying silent. She should have been well within her rights to write an OpEd about her relationship. He would have been well within his rights to write one countering what she said. That’s fair and balanced. This circus has been neither and has been detrimental to victims of abuse.

One hundred percent agree with your last paragraph.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Liam-

I know you don’t believe so, because in your world evidence doesn’t matter and only women can be victims and men are horrific, dangerous monsters

I think I’m starting to figure out where all of this anger towards women is rooted for you Liam, which is quite insightful because I’ve been quite confused about the support for Depp from certain people, but it’s starting to make sense. Mmhmm.

[GoldHeart]

Yes domestic abuse survivors should be able to speak out. But what about when accusations are proved to be false ???, are we meant to still believe them & ignore facts & logic just because of gender?.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Not one person willing to address the verified texts from Depp where he outright stated long before the trial that his intention was to have her publicly shamed and dragged across the coals. Blinkers firmly on for that one.

He could only do that if he was being honest and had the evidence and witnesses to back him up though


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[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Liam-

If that’s what you got from that, then sure, whatever makes you happy

I didn’t read it, not really interested in reading what a defender of a blatantly obvious liar thinks someone else is lying about tbh

Exactly !


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[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Yes domestic abuse survivors should be able to speak out. But what about when accusations are proved to be false ???, are we meant to still believe them & ignore facts & logic just because of gender?.

They haven’t been “proved to be false” they just haven’t been successfully proven to be true. Extremely difficult to “prove” anything false.

Who you BELIEVE and what you BELIEVE is not important; as I said, she should have been free to speak about this relationship and he should have been free to counter that with his own version, and then people can BELIEVE whoever they want to believe.

This is about being safe to speak about it without threat of legal action. Or being deliberately shamed across the internet.

[parmnion]

This is a good article...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2091620.html

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Zizu

He could only do that if he was being honest and had the evidence and witnesses to back him up though


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What on earth would make you believe that? people can only conduct a smear campaign if the things they’re saying are true? That’s just… clearly not the case.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There is a video of him being the perpetrator you can watch with your own eyes (and then claim it’s not violent/abusive because he was provoked/verbal abuse and intimidation isn’t “really” abuse or whatever the MRA’s are peddling on that)

Awww not THAT video again .. the one where two or three of you felt that AH came out of it looking good ... but the rest of the world saw her for what she is ..


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[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Awww not THAT video again .. the one where two or three of you felt that AH came out of it looking good ... but the rest of the world saw her for what she is ..


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Yes the video that shows Johnny Depp being violent and intimidating, slamming doors, smashing objects, grabbing things and throwing out insults… that you still think was ok if his “buttons had been pushed”. Can I ask Zizu… do you behave this way if your wife “pushes your buttons”? Would you? And if not, why not?

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Yes domestic abuse survivors should be able to speak out. But what about when accusations are proved to be false ???, are we meant to still believe them & ignore facts & logic just because of gender?.

That’s exactly what they want people to do.

I’m a firm believer of punishment for anybody that is proven, clearly and convincingly, to have made false accusations on the levels she made, whether they be man or woman, there should be repercussions for people who wield the very serious allegations of these kinds as a weapon to further themselves or destroy somebody else.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Awww not THAT video again .. the one where two or three of you felt that AH came out of it looking good ... but the rest of the world saw her for what she is ..


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And what would that be?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Awww not THAT video again .. the one where two or three of you felt that AH came out of it looking good ... but the rest of the world saw her for what she is ..


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I don't think Amber came out of it looking good at all. I don't think either of them did though

ETA - The whole trial I mean. That video, I don't think Amber came out of it looking any kind of way really, Johnny Depp didn't look so good though

[parmnion]

Half the world thinks amber heard should have a broken vagina cause they think she was claiming to have been abused with a broken bottle...

When what she claimed was depp bent her over a kitchen top before inserting a bottle into her.

She didnt even say repeatedly

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Liam-

That’s exactly what they want people to do.

I’m a firm believer of punishment for anybody that is proven, clearly and convincingly, to have made false accusations on the levels she made, whether they be man or woman, there should be repercussions for people who wield the very serious allegations of these kinds as a weapon to further themselves or destroy somebody else.

“Punishment for anyone proven to have made false allegations” - if your bar for that “proof” is as low as it has been for Heard, then all you’re saying is that you don’t think anyone should be able to accuse their partner of abuse. Because most people can’t prove it and in this case, a video of him being abusive was deemed “not good enough” .

Most women already don’t speak up. You’re saying you’d like even less to speak up, because if they’re not convincing enough they’ll be punished for it. It’s disgusting. Do you feel the same way about sexual assault victims? If there’s not enough evidence to charge the person they accused, the accuser should face consequences for accusing them?

I know a lot of MRA’s think that way so I’m just wondering if you’re on that same train of thought.

Though from what you’ve said previously on the thread it seems like you want some sort of “best of both” scenario where MALE victims are encouraged to speak out more, but FEMALE victims better not if they can’t prove it. Is that about right?

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yes the video that shows Johnny Depp being violent and intimidating, slamming doors, smashing objects, grabbing things and throwing out insults… that you still think was ok if his “buttons had been pushed”. Can I ask Zizu… do you behave this way if your wife “pushes your buttons”? Would you? And if not, why not?

The only 'abuse' I saw was to the cabinets and cupboards. I don't understand how people can condone her secretly filming this meltdown , when she sent the video to one of the biggest celebrity gossip media platforms. Yet it's wrong that the trial was 'televised' ??.But their dirty laundry was already out there.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

The only 'abuse' I saw was to the cabinets and cupboards. I don't understand how people can condone her secretly filming this meltdown , when she sent the video to one of the biggest celebrity gossip media platforms. Yet it's wrong that the trial was 'televised' ??.But their dirty laundry was already out there.

Slamming objects around and smashing glasses in an intimidating/aggressive manner is a form of domestic abuse. I know you disagree but that’s not “opinion”, at least not in this country, it’s classed as domestic violence. By domestic violence professionals, by the police, by the courts. Those are just the facts.

Domestic violence professionals also RECOMMEND that victims of such abuse try to record the abuser for evidence. They TELL them to do it, to make videos, recordings, and take pictures etc… turns out it can simply be twisted against the person recording.

Should she have sent it to the media if she did indeed do that? No, she definitely shouldn’t have, but that has absolutely nothing to do with his actions IN the video.

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Yes domestic abuse survivors should be able to speak out. But what about when accusations are proved to be false ???, are we meant to still believe them & ignore facts & logic just because of gender?.

I agree...

[arista]

Originally Posted by UserSince2005

Disgusted by the verdict. FREE AMBER HEARD NOW!

She is Free

She won $2million.


That can go toward the $15million she has to pay the Winner
Johnny.

[LukeB]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah, imo it just shows again how controlling and abusive the guy is



That's really sick. I don't even particularly like Amber, for me it's the hero worship of Johnny Depp that i find off putting.

Same. All I’ve seen was people calling him a saint and he’s far from a saint. I wouldn’t say someone who defended Roman Polanski is a saint. He has done a lot of problematic stuff.

This trial seemed like a joke rather than serious, thanks to them who wanted it televised.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by arista

She is Free

She won $2million.


That can go toward the $15million she has to pay the Winner
Johnny.

$10.35 million (or $8.35 million if you take the $2 million into account). I know people are struggling with the maths though.

There will be an appeal before any of that, also.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Slamming objects around and smashing glasses in an intimidating/aggressive manner is a form of domestic abuse. I know you disagree but that’s not “opinion”, at least not in this country, it’s classed as domestic violence. By domestic violence professionals, by the police, by the courts. Those are just the facts.

Domestic violence professionals also RECOMMEND that victims of such abuse try to record the abuser for evidence. They TELL them to do it, to make videos, recordings, and take pictures etc… turns out it can simply be twisted against the person recording.

Should she have sent it to the media if she did indeed do that? No, she definitely shouldn’t have, but that has absolutely nothing to do with his actions IN the video.

He walked straight into the kitchen on the other side and went straight for the cabinets, how is that intimidating AH?, She was not scared or concerned for that matter . She wanted attention so she kept trying to get a reaction for her little video soap.

He poured himself a glass of wine, to which she said a snarky comment like " did you drink all that " , or something to that effect. And that's when he saw her filming.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

$10.35 million (or $8.35 million if you take the $2 million into account). I know people are struggling with the maths though.

There will be an appeal before any of that, also.

Pay Up before that is better

[parmnion]

Time for a musical interlude..

Youtube video

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

He walked straight into the kitchen on the other side and went straight for the cabinets, how is that intimidating AH?, She was not scared or concerned for that matter . She wanted attention so she kept trying to get a reaction for her little video soap.

He poured himself a glass of wine, to which she said a snarky comment like " did you drink all that " , or something to that effect. And that's when he saw her filming.

You missed out the part of her nervously asking him what was wrong as he hurled glass after glass.