[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I saw pretty much all of it. I guess the difference is that I do have qualifications, and my wife has high level qualifications, so I can see through someone who happens to be a good orator vs someone who is unfortunately messy. A trial like this should never be decided on who put on the better show and that’s why a domestic violence case should not be decided by a layperson jury - but that’s the US for you. Abusers are often charismatic. Victims are often disorganised. Juries are often duped. Most abusers never face consequences, as a statistical fact.

You saw the whole thing and this is your summary.

You're talking in very broad terms about abuse cases. I'd have thought, if you'd seen the whole thing, you'd have seen some nuance in this case because there was plenty.

I don't know why you're quoting your qualifications, you're on a Big Brother forum. I have high level qualifications too and work for the ministry of Justice. What does that say about me...nothing.

As for

Abusers are often charismatic. Victims are often disorganised.

This statement is so broad I'm unsure why you would even post it.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Liam-

The response to the verdict is very telling though, that people who have had malicious lies told about them, shouldn’t do anything to clear their name and just sit back and allow it to happen, because it does too much damage to women to prove a woman has lied about you, scary times to live in.

Giving big ‘man up and take one for the team’ energy

The biggest outcome of all this is the fact that men are free to verbally threaten, mentally torture and control and posses their partners.....just dont hit them though guys and everything will be ok.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

True but remember Heard should have been prepped and rehearsed too. Heards illustrators are all over the place. Hence why Depp is more believable.

Its not absolute but we can say with a some certainty that Depp is reaching into himself to find how to describe the story, rehearsed or not, while Heard is completely directionless and seem to use inappropriate expressions to convey disgust/anger. Expressions that are not consistent with her baseline. Indicating distress or possible deception.

All that says to me is the abuse against her effected her to an extent it would make her panic when giving evidence in fron tof millions, whilst the abuse of depp simply didnt really register enough for it to bother him.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

You saw the whole thing and this is your summary.

You're talking in very broad terms about abuse cases. I'd have thought, if you'd seen the whole thing, you'd have seen some nuance in this case because there was plenty.

There’s a tonne of needless nuance that has no bearing at all on her claim that she’s a survivor of an abusive relationship. The video in the kitchen shows an abusive relationship, the rest of the nuance is simply people rallying to justify abusive behaviour.

I don't know why you're quoting your qualifications, you're on a Big Brother forum. I have high level qualifications too and work for the ministry of Justice. What does that say about me...nothing.

Indeed hence why I generally don’t and haven’t at all in this thread but it’s relevant to what you were talking about.

This statement is so broad I'm unsure why you would even post it.

Again because it’s directly in response to your ridiculous notion that the “person who comes across better” (is more charismatic or a better public speaker) is in any way therefore likely to be the one telling the truth. They are far more likely to be able to convince people that they’re telling the truth. Which is something completely different.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by parmnion

All that says to me is the abuse against her effected her to an extent it would make her panic when giving evidence in fron tof millions, whilst the abuse of depp simply didnt really register enough for it to bother him.

I agree with this.

However, the first deposition Heard was angry and quite arrogant. Not much distress or panic in the first deposition

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Yeah if only Depp had some witnesses to corroborate his side of things ... and if only AH had at least ONE decent witness to back her up ..

We won’t count her sister


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She had another 6 ex friends who no longer keep in touch with amber who came forward to testify for her.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by parmnion

All that says to me is the abuse against her effected her to an extent it would make her panic when giving evidence in fron tof millions, whilst the abuse of depp simply didnt really register enough for it to bother him.

Depp wasn’t taking any of it seriously enough to even bother staying in the country for the result - his aim (his STATED aim, in texts to Paul Bettany) was to shame and humiliate her and he achieved that weeks ago.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

I agree with this.

However, the first deposition Heard was angry and quite arrogant. Not much distress or panic in the first deposition

What do you know of the presentation of domestic violence victims? Because anger and arrogance (I’d call it defiance but you might describe it as arrogance) are both very common. In all victims of abuse, actually. You should read up on “the perfect victim” and the myth that there’s a certain way victims act. Heard “not crying convincingly enough” comes under that one as well.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There’s a tonne of needless nuance that has no bearing at all on her claim that she’s a survivor of an abusive relationship. The video in the kitchen shows an abusive relationship, the rest of the nuance is simply people rallying to justify abusive behaviour.

Id agree. It became a circus.

Indeed hence why I generally don’t and haven’t at all in this thread but it’s relevant to what you were talking about.

OK if you say so.

Again because it’s directly in response to your ridiculous notion that the “person who comes across better” (is more charismatic or a better public speaker) is in any way therefore likely to be the one telling the truth. They are far more likely to be able to convince people that they’re telling the truth. Which is something completely different.

That's not what I said. So the quote is actually an inaccurate summary of my posts. After looking directly at someone's face while they give testimony for over an hour. The face doesn't lie no matter how good an actor someone is. Its about consistency. Even in interviews and previous depositions Depp is consistent, Heard isnt.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

I agree with this.

However, the first deposition Heard was angry and quite arrogant. Not much distress or panic in the first deposition

I didnt find her arrogant, I found her defensive, yet confident at times. She was defensive when attacked, but confident with a touch of panic when reliving her ordeals.

I just think she got resting bitch face which makes her look angry as well.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

What do you know of the presentation of domestic violence victims? Because anger and arrogance (I’d call it defiance but you might describe it as arrogance) are both very common. In all victims of abuse, actually. You should read up on “the perfect victim” and the myth that there’s a certain way victims act. Heard “not crying convincingly enough” comes under that one as well.

What about the smiling in the first deposition.

No doubt you have more qualifications than me in this area but you have to admit Heard is not consistent.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by parmnion

She had another 6 ex friends who no longer keep in touch with amber who came forward to testify for her.

Ex ...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[GiRTh]

What about the eating in the first deposition. I know from my own persona experience that when you're feeling stressed the appetite is the first thing to go.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Depp wasn’t taking any of it seriously enough to even bother staying in the country for the result - his aim (his STATED aim, in texts to Paul Bettany) was to shame and humiliate her and he achieved that weeks ago.

Yes, his ex lawyers fingers must ache from tic toc posting...nasty man, glad it cost him 2 million for that. But considering she wanted 100 mill, its paltry sum...and a paltry percentage compared to depps monetary payout..loss of earnings, earnings from what..he was being dropped as jack sparrow before the op ed.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I didnt find her arrogant, I found her defensive, yet confident at times. She was defensive when attacked, but confident with a touch of panic when reliving her ordeals.

I just think she got resting bitch face which makes her look angry as well.

In the first deposition, there was one point where her attorney made an objection. She gives a little smirk after. Her expressions are inappropriate at times.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Ex ...


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Yes, ex friends....ones who had no reasons through loyalty to tell their version on her behalf.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yes he pretends that he didn't hit his wife when he was drunk.

Evidence?

Originally Posted by arista

Johnny Wins

Yes, justice has been served

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Well I can't argue with you there.

This outcome has been inevitable for weeks; a tragic day for all women and especially victims of domestic abuse, who have had their ability to speak up knocked back by decades. All the work of #MeToo undone by a jury of hicks.

Congratulations I guess?

Perched for his upcoming assault trial. Shall we all be watching that one?

All women? See this is what's wrong, so wrong. Men experience DV too! This might make more men speak up without feeling like they won't be believes.

Femism gone way too far and men just overlooked massively.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

He's back in court on assault charges soon Vanessa. Will you be tuning in? #JusticeForJohnny

Have you got anything to say about Amber's counter-lawsuit also being successfully upheld? You've been oddly quiet on that

One part was successfully upheld and that wasn't Johnny but his lawyer.

Originally Posted by GiRTh

I agree with the sentiment of this but I don't think the jury put the #MeToo movement but Miss Heard's lack of evidence, poor sometimes histrionic performance on the stand and her recollection of incidents that conflict with even her own sister. Maybe the trauma of reliving the incidents made her testimony so not believable but some of the inconsistencies in her stories stick out like a beacon.

Its clear this was a toxic relationship but who was the aggressor? Both teams make a distinction between hitting and other forms of physical abuse that I'm not sure should be made. Mr Depp vehemently denies ever 'striking' Miss Heard ,as he puts it, but he admits there was an incident where he was - as he puts it - had his hands on her shoulders and was trying to get her to stay on the bed. Clearly he's put his hands on her in an aggressive manner so I dont agree with the distinction.

There were incidents that it seem Miss Heard made up and the way their is stories differ so starkly regarding the same incidents is laughable at times. Where as Depp is calm and almost going into too much details, Heard clearly skips thru and misses out parts of recollection of event. We odnt know if its the trauma of reliving but she was unconvincing and a bit snarky in her testimony

We don't know anything other than this was toxic relation ship and these two need to stay the hell away from each other. MeeToo has definitely been put back but I don't think Mr Depp had much to do with it, frankly

You are a breath of fresh air

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's not about whose fault it is or what the intent was - the fact that one of the most high-profile trials on history (which is insane in the first place) has resulted in someone being successfully sued for millions of dollars for writing about an experience of abuse effectively means that any and every abuse victim is going to now think twice (thrice, and four times over) about coming forward. It's an absolute catastrophe for abuse victims. Even people who believe Depp should understand that, and stop "celebrating". It's completely inappropriate given what this was about.

So yeah just let people make false accusations instead?

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

All but inevitable. Her libel case against him was upheld as well (I'm going to keep repeating this as it's being conveniently brushed under the carpet - they both won their respective cases)...

There's a reason his team chose Virginia. Notorious for upholding libel claims.

No they did not. She won one. She won 2 million not the 100 million. Don't spread lies

Originally Posted by GiRTh

That's clearly not what I'm saying. You first mentioned MeToo anmd it was the MeToo coment that I replied to

Miss Heard was someone who visibly backed the MeToo movement and to then clearly make up allegations is not the same as saying as what you're saying. She was a major player, you cannot deny.

The fact we are looking at a woman is clearly not what I'm, saying. Are you aware that Miss Heard accused her previous partner - a bi woman of abuse too? Her previous partner also denies it. and says it was the other way round. Amber Heard is a piece of work. Thats all I'm saying

Agreed

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You're a bit late to the thread to be spamming the same regurgitated Twitter/TikTok bull**** we’ve been chewing over for weeks I’m afraid. You forgot to call her “Amber Turd” for extra chuckles.

Why so rude?

Originally Posted by Liam-

And I hope this inspires more male domestic abuse victims to come forward with their stories too, the stigma of being a male victim needs to be eradicated and hopefully this is just the start of that happening

Yeah this is what angers me. I hope it does because men are just expected to put up with **** and it's all about women and feminism

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I’ve seen the full video and whoever released it is irrelevant, his actions in that video constitute a form of domestic violence regardless of the circumstances or supposed “provocation”.

If you disagree that his behaviour in that video constitutes domestic violence we have very little to talk about, because I fundamentally disagree.

You do know that the article was saying sexual violence. You won't shut up about that video which we discussed for many a page

Originally Posted by parmnion

Justice has been served...

I've enjoyed the thread.

Onwards and upwards for the battered women of the world.

Yes justice has been served that you can't make up flase allegations and think you're going to get away with it.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

No no GoldHeart, she won the defamation case against Depp and his lawyer in THIS trial that you have apparently been watching; they each had a claim against each other. He won his claim, and she won her claim. Did you perhaps turn it off after hearing only half of the verdict?

Incorrect. She won one part of her claim.

Originally Posted by parmnion

What I mean is, every battered woman who has actually been battered, will now feel less empowered to come forward about being battered because of amber heards lies.


Justice has been served.

I have read so many stories of survivors of DV who have supported Johnny. I'm not so sure they will, I think it will make those who are thinking about making false accusations to think twice and that men can experience domestic violence too and do something about it!!!

Originally Posted by Zizu

Didn’t they mention two amounts she’s liable for ?

$10 million and a separate $5 million ??


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10 million comp, 5 punitive...then deduct Virginia cap..

Amber 2 million def for the waldren statements only

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I don’t believe that complex legal issues should be decided on by laypeople with no legal training. I don’t believe that domestic violence cases should be decided on by people with no knowledge of domestic violence, or what is normal behaviour for victims of domestic violence. I said “hillbillies” as a colourful way of saying “people who don’t know what they’re looking at and think victims must look a certain way” - something we’ve seen plenty of in this thread too.

It’s certainly not about not liking what I’ve seen/heard, although of course I don’t “like” it, as I’ve said on multiple occasions the kitchen video is all I need to stare with 100% certainty that there was behaviour from Depp that is a form of domestic abuse. That’s all I needed to see or hear because - unlike some - I don’t think any mountain of evidence showing supposed “provocation” excuses that violence or somehow makes it not-abusive. I can’t say which of Heards other claims are definitely true although I personally believe her in most of them. On the kitchen video (and text messages to Bettany) that are confirmed alone - I’m happy enough to call him abusive, a misogynist and a generally extremely unpleasant individual.

I know people disagree with me but .

The op ed wasn't just about domestic abuse, sexual violence was also mentioned

Originally Posted by Liam-

All I’m getting from the people unhappy with the result is that women should be allowed to do whatever they want and get away with things they do, for no other reason than they’re women and it might look bad on the entire female population, that’s not how the world works folks, you get proven to have done something wrong, ‘clear and convincingly’ as this verdict form stated, you face the consequences.

And if the jury was really biased in any way, would Heard have won the one claim that she did? No, it means they looked at the evidence as a whole, objectively and came to their conclusions based on that, if they were ‘hillbillies’ and ‘hicks’ just out to get a poor innocent women, they wouldn’t have sided with her on something.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Vanessa

Exactly. Women can be abusers as well.

Yes most definitely

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

They haven’t been “proved to be false” they just haven’t been successfully proven to be true. Extremely difficult to “prove” anything false.

Who you BELIEVE and what you BELIEVE is not important; as I said, she should have been free to speak about this relationship and he should have been free to counter that with his own version, and then people can BELIEVE whoever they want to believe.

This is about being safe to speak about it without threat of legal action. Or being deliberately shamed across the internet.

Well you better make sure that you're not lying because if you are about such serious allegations then expect legal action

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

$10.35 million (or $8.35 million if you take the $2 million into account). I know people are struggling with the maths though.

There will be an appeal before any of that, also.

You really do think you're above people

Delusions of grandeur.

Originally Posted by GiRTh

True but she diagnosed Heard without even speaking to her.

Her body langue however, seemed to confirm some sort of disorder. You need only rudimentary understanding of body language to see she was 'performing' on the stand.

I do agree with this massively. Smell a rat, most likely a rat. It was the whole noises, crying noises, no tears, then stop, start, smile then frown. It just did not add up at all imo.

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Totally uncalled for. No need to be so rude.

Did you even see the testimony?

Depp was calm and addressed the attorney while Heard constantly made irrelevant comments directed at the jury. It was constant and stood out like a sore thumb.

What qualifications do I need to observe the stark contrast between their testimonies and make a decision on what I see?

Yeah he's very rude and unnecessary. Really thinks he's something and the most intelligent person in the room. Must make him feel better though. Really patronising and demeaning.

Originally Posted by Liam-

TS thinks he’s the smartest person on any subject he chooses to discuss and anybody who disagrees with him is an idiot

Nail on head

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Johnny Depp's taste of the Toon! Barmaid reveals Hollywood star drank 6 cans of STELLA with £14 fish and chips as he toasted $15M lawsuit win
over Amber Heard... and even quizzed staff on the city's famous Tyne Bridge

Fair play to him

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

And if there’s anything that screams “no more alcohol problems” it’s six cans of Stella with your dinner.

Really? My dad would do the same and certainly isn't an alcoholic. I wouldn't say that unnormal for most men.

Originally Posted by Liam-

Lies aren’t protected by freedom of speech, let’s all remember that shall we

Indeed and that's the big difference

Originally Posted by Liam-

The response to the verdict is very telling though, that people who have had malicious lies told about them, shouldn’t do anything to clear their name and just sit back and allow it to happen, because it does too much damage to women to prove a woman has lied about you, scary times to live in.

Giving big ‘man up and take one for the team’ energy

Agreed

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There are no first hand witnesses (nor are there any suggested first hand witnesses) to any of the actual alleged incidents of violence because, as with most domestic abuse, the violence happens when they’re alone. All of Depp’s witnesses were to circumstantial things, or payroll expert witnesses (part of his legal team).

Did you imagine there would be witnesses to say “oh yes I saw him being abusive all the time”? Who would have seen that?

Nope but lots who had no reason to lie never seeing any marks she describes that came from these horrific acts of violence

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

In the first deposition, there was one point where her attorney made an objection. She gives a little smirk after. Her expressions are inappropriate at times.

I go red and look guilty everytime I walk through customs, is there anything hidden in my bag...NO, there isnt.

[parmnion]

The op ed wasn't just about domestic abuse, sexual violence was also mentioned

Thomas...
Wasnt it just the actual headline of that article that they were deliberating on?

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by parmnion

The op ed wasn't just about domestic abuse, sexual violence was also mentioned


Wasnt it just the actual headline of that article that they were deliberating on.

No, three statements and title.

[ThomasC]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...c36_story.html

[ThomasC]

Sorry for two plus the title

[ThomasC]

So this whole notion and discussion we spent so long about, where some said that the video was abuse and that was enough for slam, dunk close obviously not aware of the logistics of it all.

Someone in particular thinking he knows everything and is a lawyer. Lol

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I go red and look guilty everytime I walk through customs, is there anything hidden in my bag...NO, there isnt.

OK fair enough. it's just that when you looking at someone's face for so long, you start to notice everything after a while

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

So this whole notion and discussion we spent so long about, where some said that the video was abuse and that was enough for slam, dunk close obviously not aware of the logistics of it all.

Everyone knew that, so you dont need to be condescending.

Everyone felt the need to expose an abusive man though, hence the very long discussion about the video I asked you to post.