[bitontheslide]

We had this situation with that other poor lad a few months ago and the Christian Legal Centre were involved in that too and advised their client wrongly creating an almighty mess

Parents do lose their right to determine what happens to the child when it is not in the best interests of the child. That is the simple truth that is always applied in these situations.

No-one can deny that hospice care would be preferable to hospital care if it is appropriate, but that only applies in certain circumstances, not all. I don't think anyone on this forum is qualified to answer that question, we can only offer an opinion, that's the simple reality

[Liam-]

I think the fact of the matter is that his parents and the family, that Christian group, the media and all of their social media backers are not thinking or doing anything with Archie as their main priority, this isn’t about the rights of parents in denial not wanting to accept that their kid is dead, this whole thing is about a child needing to be treated fairy and with the dignity anybody deserves when they pass, what they are continuing to put this boys body through, while only doing what’s in their best interest, rather than his, is to me disgusting and selfish.

And to openly accuse the people who would have spent months bending over backwards to give their son the best care possible, despite him already being dead, of abuse is reprehensible I’m afraid

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I do hope the Court does one thing more compassionately and rule the family can have Archie in a Hospice for the end of this tragic heartbreaking situation.

To FORCE his Parents and family to have to see him go in this Hospital which has brought such hurt and emotional stress to them.
Would in my view be a gross act of cruelty.

How can you say the Hospital has bought so much hurt and emotional stress...they have clearly done everything they can for the little boy and the courts have proved that the decision that had to be made about Life Support being withdrawn was the correct one...a decision they most likely have to make on a daily basis much to the detrement of families.
If anything the family here have shown little respect for the Professionals who have done everything they can for their son...to call them all excecutioners is just beyond belief.

[arista]

3:30PM, the Next Court announcement
appeal for hospice

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

3:30PM, the Next Court announcement
appeal for hospice

The law doesn't get it right every time.
Sadly they likely won't this time either.
For Archie's family they should but I doubt they will.

It wouldn't surprise me to one day find out this is more the hospital Trust's directive here.
I haven't much faith in Hospital Trust's.
In fact if I had power I'd clear out all the Trust managements and their overstaffed offices.

Thankfully these cases are rare but for me the Courts should never be the way to break deadlock with hospitals which become embroiled in the grievances of loved ones.
The loved ones, who are there in the hospital day after day, night after night , on the receiving end and know better than anyone the wrongs they are seeing and hearing.

[Liam-]

Sorry, but you’re completely wrong on this one I’m afraid

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Sorry, but you’re completely wrong on this one I’m afraid

If you're addressing me, I'm sorry but I don't think you have it right actually.

I'm happy to take the family's position here.
It's not just the Mother's position it's the family.

You and others can think me wrong, however that doesn't make me so.

In these cases there's no real winners.
IF this was my son however, I'd be doing much the same as Archie's Mother, Father and family.
That's my position.
Rightly or wrongly.

[bitontheslide]

it's a very emotive subject and that's why it's good to have the court system and the multiple avenues of appeal. At some point however, emotion has to be taken out of the decision. Multiple different courts under multiple jurisdictions have all found against the parents. There has to be acceptance of that situation at some point

[Liam-]

I think it’s morally wrong to put the feelings of his parents, above the boys rights to dignity in death, because this is what it’s all about, it’s not about doing what’s best for him, it’s about doing what the parents think is best for their own emotions.

They are being taken advantage of by a Christian group who are only interested in pushing their own religious agenda and the right wing press who wants to further erode the public trust in the NHS so they’re Tory overlords can continue demolishing it, it’s time to let these parents grieve properly without turning this poor kids situation into a bloody spectacle

[arista]

3:30PM Hearing is delayed

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

it's a very emotive subject and that's why it's good to have the court system and the multiple avenues of appeal. At some point however, emotion has to be taken out of the decision. Multiple different courts under multiple jurisdictions have all found against the parents. There has to be acceptance of that situation at some point

This is why these procedures exist, because people who have a say in how a person is treated medically shouldn’t have unwavering power, especially when it’s clear that they are not acting in the best interests of the patient.

The attacks on the staff that have looked after this boy for months from his parents, the family and social media supporters have been actually disgusting, his mother has accused them of starving him because he was losing weight, they’ve accused them of ‘choreographed execution’ and today she’s in the media accusing them of giving him no care whatsoever, she’s a grieving mother who’s having her strings pulled and the show has gone on for too long, she now needs to spend her time with her son before the machine is turned off rather than trying to lay blame at everyone’s feet, it’s shameful

[Gusto Brunt]

This is something you couldn't make up.

Archie's mum and dad want to move him to a hospice but doctors - get this - have said there is significant risk to Archie if an attempt to move him is made.

Hang on, are these the same doctors who want to switch off life support meaning death to Archie??

Unbelieavable.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Gusto Brunt

This is something you couldn't make up.

Archie's mum and dad want to move him to a hospice but doctors - get this - have said there is significant risk to Archie if an attempt to move him is made.

Hang on, are these the same doctors who want to switch off life support meaning death to Archie??

Unbelieavable.

Yes, they are.
I'll echo your last word there, unbelievable.

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Gusto Brunt

This is something you couldn't make up.

Archie's mum and dad want to move him to a hospice but doctors - get this - have said there is significant risk to Archie if an attempt to move him is made.

Hang on, are these the same doctors who want to switch off life support meaning death to Archie??

Unbelieavable.

Well unless you are a medical professional then you would not know the significance of the comment.
I guess maybe there is a possibility that moving him could mean his Life Support system would not work effectively enough to get him to the Hospice without his organs failing....
I am no medical expert but it could be a complex move.

[arista]

They won't move him
it is too dangerous.

[Liam-]

I say at this point, just let them take him and when his parents finally realise that he’s not breathing on his own, in the back of a bus and he has an even more undignified death than the one they’ve already forced him to have, they’ll have nobody to blame but themselves

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by arista

They won't move him
it is too dangerous.

Its not so much its dangerous...its just that they are letting it be known that this isnt as simple as it sounds for the parents to have him where they want him when he comes off the ventilator.

[arista]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

Its not so much its dangerous...its just that they are letting it be known that this isnt as simple as it sounds for the parents to have him where they want him when he comes off the ventilator.

It is not the Hospital
at fault,

He did the Online Challenge
and sadly it has more or less killed him

[bitontheslide]

it comes down to the dignity of the patient in the end, and the reason this has gone to court is because the patient can't speak for himself. This case is going down a similar path to that of Alfie and it's the same religious fanatics driving it. They nor the lads parents are considering his dignity now, and are irrationally lashing out at anyone that says what they are doing isn't right

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by arista

They won't move him
it is too dangerous.

Why is it dangerous arista if hes already dead ?

[Nicky91]

yes its a dangerous online challenge

i feel sad for the parents, but he just shouldn't have been doing that


could've been prevented

[LeatherTrumpet]

Brain death is legal death

If someone's brain dead, the damage is irreversible and, according to UK law, the person has died.

It can be confusing to be told someone has brain death, because their life support machine will keep their heart beating and their chest will still rise and fall with every breath from the ventilator.

But they will not ever regain consciousness or start breathing on their own again. They have already died.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/brain-...ed%20as%20dead.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Why is it dangerous arista if hes already dead ?

it's not dangerous in the traditional sense of the word, it's not going to change the final outcome. At this point, i can envisage a scenario where the lad is live on tv with his parents at his bedside showing how much they care where the hospital don't. I hope i'm proved wrong, but thats why i am talking about patient dignity

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Why is it dangerous arista if hes already dead ?

Because the pipes down his throat
damage so much.


That is what a Doctor said.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by arista

Because the pipes down his throat
damage so much.


That is what a Doctor said.

If he's brain dead though, he won't feel it.

Sadly, its also a waste of resources to move him and the cost involved will be quite high. The trust will be thinking of that too. A lot of things cone down to money.

I feel for the parent's massively and am sure if I were in their shoes I would be feeling and doing the same. They will be existing on next to no sleep, be consumed with grief and getting advice from dubious (from the looks of them) sources. However, I agree they are lashing out at the wrong people, the medical staff will have lost sleep over this too I'm sure....they train to save people, not to let them die

At this point, I am sure the family will be better trying to be with Archie as much as possible and to just show him their love.

I can't blame the parents, I can't blame the medical staff and I can't blame the courts. The situation is heartbreaking. I have had very strong conversations with my son who is almost the same age as Archie....as these crazes terrify me and sadly end like this far too often