[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Are we really suggesting Labour are trying to murder old people to stay in power?

yes I am, I cant imagine why their first turn was to target all pensioners, can you give me a reason why they have done this?

[joeysteele]

Personally I wouldn't oppose this change.

It won't affect any pensioners on pension credit who if they get pension credit, the cost of their council tax bill is reduced by over 75% anyway at least.

It won't affect those on benefit either who get any council tax reduction.

However it may not be fair on those working who live alone who will lose this 25% reduction.
I do get that totally.
I mean, when Thatcher changed the old rates bands to the poll tax.
Where EVERY adult living in a property had to pay the full rates equally separately.

There was no reduction for living alone then I don't think.

The problem is once something is given, it's expected for good.
IF Labour do and they haven't yet, end this single occupancy deduction on council tax.
It isn't a good move but maybe not the wrong one.

I guess with this massive overall majority in place, it's a case of getting unsavoury and unpopular likely polices done very early on.
To restore or replace with better other ways later on in government as the years go on.

That's not new from governments.
The coalition one in 2020/11 brought in horrendously cruel polices especially towards the sick and disabled which I didn't hear many caring much about then.
Even as to that hateful bedroom tax to council accommodation tenants.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Personally I wouldn't oppose this change.

It won't affect any pensioners on pension credit who if they get pension credit, the cost of their council tax bill is reduced by over 75% anyway at least.

It won't affect those on benefit either who get any council tax reduction.

However it may not be fair on those working who live alone who will lose this 25% reduction.
I do get that totally.
I mean, when Thatcher changed the old rates bands to the poll tax.
Where EVERY adult living in a property had to pay the full rates equally separately.

There was no reduction for living alone then I don't think.

The problem is once something is given, it's expected for good.
IF Labour do and they haven't yet, end this single occupancy deduction on council tax.
It isn't a good move but maybe not the wrong one.

I guess with this massive overall majority in place, it's a case of getting unsavoury and unpopular likely polices done very early on.
To restore or replace with better other ways later on in government as the years go on.

That's not new from governments.
The coalition one in 2020/11 brought in horrendously cruel polices especially towards the sick and disabled which I didn't hear many caring much about then.
Even as to that hateful bedroom tax to council accommodation tenants.

It would affect pensioners not on pension credit like the winter fuel thing though, as an example my aunt who is 89 has lost TV licence, Winter fuel and now possibly looks to have to pay an additional 450.00 not sure what her council tax band is but just going on band B so she would have to find an additional 800 plus the increase in fuel and food, and all because she did the right thing and paid into a private pension, what incentive is there for anyone to do the right thing I wonder if they are just going to penalise anyone with a bit more than the state pension, she is not a millionaire, she is lucky that she owns her property but if she ever needs to go into a home that will go obviously.....do the right thing ...and I dont blame Labour for this but the Tories as well, buy your home, save for your old age, put money by in a pension and then wallop we will have that thank you very much. I just heard some guy from the TUC with Shelia Fogerty now saying Rachel Reeves will set out support for pensioners not on pension credit in the budget so it looks like a U turn might be on the way, but why frighten people like this, its a mess

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Cherie

It would affect pensioners not on pension credit like the winter fuel thing though, as an example my aunt who is 89 has lost TV licence, Winter fuel and now possibly looks to have to pay an additional 450.00 not sure what her council tax band is but just going on band B so she would have to find an additional 800 plus the increase in fuel and food, and all because she did the right thing and paid into a private pension, what incentive is there for anyone to do the right thing I wonder if they are just going to penalise anyone with a bit more than the state pension, she is not a millionaire, she is lucky that she owns her property but if she ever needs to go into a home that will go obviously.....do the right thing ...and I dont blame Labour for this but the Tories as well, buy your home, save for your old age, put money by in a pension and then wallop we will have that thank you very much. I just heard some guy from the TUC with Shelia Fogerty now saying Rachel Reeves will set out support for pensioners not on pension credit in the budget so it looks like a U turn might be on the way, but why frighten people like this, its a mess

Oh I don't disagree with really all you've said there.

I'm really disappointed with my governing party right now
Although I do realise the scale of the mess they're left with.

Because of the debt level it leaves borrowing out more or less too.
The debt level that has reached terrible levels over the last 14 years.

However I do think the wrong choices are being made
I want to hear what comes from conference without the media's biased agenda's being presented.
Labour MPs and members are far from happy however I'd like to see what is the extra help.

However too, I was talking to a pensioner last week, who said she couldn't get pension credit.
I said are you sure can we explore that.
So brought up the pension credit details.
( The form is absolutely horrendous and ridiculously too long, no wonder people don't bother).

Anyway this pensioner has savings, a works pension, owned her home so we did the quick calculator for it.
Not asked for name and address just date of birth and gender.

It said on the information given she could get £2.76 a week pension credit.
She never believed she'd qualify.
So her claim is now in.

Having said that, I just have to though agree with you.
Pensioners and others are getting stressed and frightened.
That's not an overstatement it's a fact.
Which I am really mad about and disappointed in the government as to.

There must be easier, less stressful for the elderly and others as to ways of raising extra funding.
I think the hole in the finances is worse than was believed before the election.
The OBR has indicated the previous government didn't give them the full information in the last financial statement.
I do NOT though think it's as bad as Reeves has stated either.
I'm now not sure how I feel as to her really.

I hoped this government would listen and really listen, not just hear.
That doesn't at this moment seem the case at all.
I think she may and hope Reeves does have a tough time at conference.

I'm really disappointed in them thus far on these issues.
Not content at all.
So I agree with your post above.

[Livia]

You really are a nice chap @joeysteele. That was.kind of you to help someone out like that...

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

You really are a nice chap @joeysteele. That was.kind of you to help someone out like that...

Thank you Livia although I'm sure most would help if they could in that scenario.

I know even while likely most of the elderly now have some form of internet interest and use.
The minefield of officialdom and claiming or getting information on things across the board, can present difficulties and even stress for them.

What I find also unbelievable and despicable, from Reeves, is the admission that it's KNOWN there's at least 800,000 pensioners who SHOULD be claiming and getting pension credit but who are not.
At least 800.000 could really mean over a million.

So for me it's plain wrong to implement any policy of withdrawal of support, when you know everyone who should still be getting it, is not.
Until you know all who should be receiving it, WILL BE, then you should not be making changes to it.
That is disgraceful.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Cherie

yes I am, I cant imagine why their first turn was to target all pensioners, can you give me a reason why they have done this?

A high tory voting demograph.

We know how spiteful and baby like starmer is, its payback time in his head.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Oh I don't disagree with really all you've said there.

I'm really disappointed with my governing party right now
Although I do realise the scale of the mess they're left with.

Because of the debt level it leaves borrowing out more or less too.
The debt level that has reached terrible levels over the last 14 years.

However I do think the wrong choices are being made
I want to hear what comes from conference without the media's biased agenda's being presented.
Labour MPs and members are far from happy however I'd like to see what is the extra help.

However too, I was talking to a pensioner last week, who said she couldn't get pension credit.
I said are you sure can we explore that.
So brought up the pension credit details.
( The form is absolutely horrendous and ridiculously too long, no wonder people don't bother).

Anyway this pensioner has savings, a works pension, owned her home so we did the quick calculator for it.
Not asked for name and address just date of birth and gender.

It said on the information given she could get £2.76 a week pension credit.
She never believed she'd qualify.
So her claim is now in.

Having said that, I just have to though agree with you.
Pensioners and others are getting stressed and frightened.
That's not an overstatement it's a fact.
Which I am really mad about and disappointed in the government as to.

There must be easier, less stressful for the elderly and others as to ways of raising extra funding.
I think the hole in the finances is worse than was believed before the election.
The OBR has indicated the previous government didn't give them the full information in the last financial statement.
I do NOT though think it's as bad as Reeves has stated either.
I'm now not sure how I feel as to her really.

I hoped this government would listen and really listen, not just hear.
That doesn't at this moment seem the case at all.
I think she may and hope Reeves does have a tough time at conference.

I'm really disappointed in them thus far on these issues.
Not content at all.
So I agree with your post above.

oh thats brilliant, I will look into it for my aunt, yeah I believe its like 240 questions or thereabouts thanks Joey

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Thank you Livia although I'm sure most would help if they could in that scenario.

I know even while likely most of the elderly now have some form of internet interest and use.
The minefield of officialdom and claiming or getting information on things across the board, can present difficulties and even stress for them.

What I find also unbelievable and despicable, from Reeves, is the admission that it's KNOWN there's at least 800,000 pensioners who SHOULD be claiming and getting pension credit but who are not.
At least 800.000 could really mean over a million.

So for me it's plain wrong to implement any policy of withdrawal of support, when you know everyone who should still be getting it, is not.
Until you know all who should be receiving it, WILL BE, then you should not be making changes to it.
That is disgraceful.

My mother worked on computers before she retired and my Dad has a real interest, he's an avid Googler, but I know they're not the norm and lots of elderly people have no idea about them. It's good that there are people willing to help.

If they know how many people should be claiming they surely should be approaching them?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Cherie

oh thats brilliant, I will look into it for my aunt, yeah I believe its like 240 questions or thereabouts thanks Joey

It's always worth checking Cherie.
I'd like to think you find a similar possible outcome for your Aunt

The quick anonymous calculator bit is easy.
Then if it can be claimed the chore of going through that obnoxiously horrendous long form is really ridiculous.

Good luck.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

My mother worked on computers before she retired and my Dad has a real interest, he's an avid Googler, but I know they're not the norm and lots of elderly people have no idea about them. It's good that there are people willing to help.

If they know how many people should be claiming they surely should be approaching them?

Exactly.
Ms Reeves hasn't so far answered that question to anyone who has raised it.
Just keeps saying they are pushing pensioners to claim it who haven't yet.

Ignorance.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Are we really suggesting Labour are trying to murder old people to stay in power?

Cutting access to winter fuel payments for pensioners will lead to 'excess deaths' this winter, Sir Keir Starmer has been warned by one of his own MPs.

Backbencher Rachael Maskell, who is leading a Labour revolt on plans to means test the benefit, has urged the PM and Chancellor Rachel Reeves to rethink the change.

In a newspaper article she warned that people will inevitably 'fall through the cracks' if the decision to limit the £300 payments to benefit recipients goes ahead.

Still laughing Liam?