[andyman]

farhad how old is the human race?

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by farhad
One who never believes in God never leads a successful life, that also in the afterlife.

What cr*p!

Many atheists lead successful lives. Doctors, teachers, policemen and women etc... and what you've said is an insult to them.

I wonder if- next time you or a family member of yours is in hospital and is given treatment by an atheist doctor, you think a bit more carefully about some of the utter drivel you come out with

And for the record, I don't believe in an afterlife

[farhad]

Originally posted by Matt10k

What cr*p!

Many atheists lead successful lives. Doctors, teachers, policemen and women etc... and what you've said is an insult to them.

I wonder if- next time you or a family member of yours is in hospital and is given treatment by an atheist doctor, you think a bit more carefully about some of the utter drivel you come out with

And for the record, I don't believe in an afterlife

Scientist are saying there is life after death, so be aware of Allah in the afterlife.

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by farhad

Scientist are saying there is life after death, so be aware of Allah in the afterlife.

Haha, ok. Well not the ones I'm listening to

And also, you make some pretty awful and discriminatory points, like the one you made on atheists just now- saying they can't lead a successful life. Do you stand by this? If so, I'm afraid from now on, you lost the last bit of respect I had for any of the things you posted and I just can’t take you seriously anymore Sorry…

[farhad]

the Holy Qur'an in Surah Yunus (10:99) makes it quite plain:"IF IT HAD BEEN YOUR LORD'S WILL, THEY WOULD ALL HAVE BELIEVED, ALL WHO ARE ON EARTH. WILL YOU THEN COMPEL PEOPLE AGAINST THEIR WILL TO BELIEVE?"
Here, the Almighty makes it perfectly clear that humanity has free will that each individual must make up his or her mind according to their own free choice. But with freedom comes individual responsibility and personal consequences. So its up to people who want practise what they like, my job as a muslim is to convey the truth.

[farhad]

Originally posted by Matt10k
I have some questions:

Are women in Saudi Arabia allowed to drive yet?

How would a apostate would be treated?

On the issue of apostasy there is NOT a single mention of death penalty for apostates, and there is not a single case in the authentic hadiths in which the Prophet Muhammad (sas) had an apostate killed solely for apostatsy! These are hard facts! There is one narration of one witness according to sahi Hadith he thought he Prophet tell those who leave Islam they should be killed", however this is the only narrator made this statement, to be authentic there needs to be more than one narrator making it authentic. Prophet even once had an appostate, but he didn't even punish this person.

This is from sahi Bhukari Hadith in regards to apostacy, all the witnesses have said Prophet said one can denounce faith but they will be dealt in the afterlife. One person (who wasn't even a close companion of the prophet)saying he thought he heard, means a third party, doesn't make it authentic.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen...i/084.sbt.html

"A bedouin gave the Pledge of allegiance to Allah's Apostle for Islam. Then the bedouin got a fever at Medina, came to Allah's Apostle and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Cancel my Pledge," But Allah's Apostle refused......The bedouin finally went out (of Medina) whereupon Allah's Apostle said, "Medina is like a pair of bellows (furnace): It expels its impurities and brightens and clears its good." [Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 9, #318] NO DEATH PENALTY HERE!!!

[Very_Nayce]

I am an atheist and I lead a fulfilling life. I gave up all hope of ever being sucked into Religion last year. I wanted to believe but could not, and im past all questioning of life now and I am able to properly live it without fear of doing things wrong. Religion has a hard on for suffering. Atheists have a hard on for accepting that this is the only life you are going to get, and live.

So party on! Thats the basis of my philosophy. Aint no narrow attacks or scripture quotes can ever change my mind. Life is just a ride.

I have seen members in this thread converse by exchanging what might well be lines from an X-Files script as if it were ABSOLOUTE truth and they were contacted DIRECTLY to have their opinion VALIDATED.

As Mario would say, true Billy Bullshiners.

[farhad]

Originally posted by Very_Nayce
I am an atheist and I lead a fulfilling life. I gave up all hope of ever being sucked into Religion last year. I wanted to believe but could not, and Im past all questioning of life now and I am able to properly live it without fear of doing things wrong. Religion has a hard on for suffering. Atheists have a hard on for accepting that this is the only life you are going to get, and live.

So party on! Thats the basis of my philosophy. Aint no narrow attacks or scripture quotes can ever change my mind. Life is just a ride.

I have seen members in this thread converse by exchanging what might well be lines from an X-Files script as if it were ABSOLOUTE truth and they were contacted DIRECTLY to have their opinion VALIDATED.

As Mario would say, true Billy Bullshiners.

According to statistics Athiesm coming to Islam is growing, if you dont believe me you can check amount of athiest who come to religion, is the path of Islam.

[Very_Nayce]

Originally posted by farhad

According to statistics Athiesm coming to Islam is growing, if you dont believe me you can check amount of athiest who come to religion, is the path of Islam.

And your point is?...

Im not a statictic. Im me. And im an atheist.

[FrenchAffair]

Originally posted by farhad


Just to give you a quote to show even a bad muslim women deserved equal respect. Beloved Prophet said in the Quran:

The same prophet that married and raped a 9 year old girl when he was no younger than 53 years old by his own account?

"Tell the men with you who have wives: never trust a woman." (Ishaq:584)

"Force not your slave-girls to *****dom (prostitution) if they desire chastity, that you may seek enjoyment of this life. But if anyone forces them, then after such compulsion, Allah is oft-forgiving." (Qur'an 24:34)

[farhad]

Originally posted by FrenchAffair

The same prophet that married and raped a 9 year old girl when he was no younger than 53 years old by his own account?

"Tell the men with you who have wives: never trust a woman." (Ishaq:584)

"Force not your slave-girls to *****dom (prostitution) if they desire chastity, that you may seek enjoyment of this life. But if anyone forces them, then after such compulsion, Allah is oft-forgiving." (Qur'an 24:34)

Your a lyer and your quoting Bible verses, the actual verse is 24:34. "We have already sent down to you verses making things clear, an illustration from (the story of) people who passed away before you, and an admonition for those who fear ((Allah))"

Where in that verse talks about slave girls and raping them?

Furthermore, Women in arabia had short life span, they died at the age of 35, so it was common sense they got married after they hit puberty. How did Prophet raped her when her parents offered her to him and she accepted it. Please stop quoting Bible verses.

"Tell the men with you who have wives: never trust a woman." (Ishaq:584)

Never heard of this, its not in the quran so stop quoting something that isn't there and provide source before doing it. Womens in Islam are respected and honoured and given right, the voting system for women was stolen from Prophet Mohammed's saying.

[farhad]

Islam believes in manumission of slave, hence marrying a poor women is a good deed, and by marrying them, your freeing them from slavery and given them a better life.

[Axiom]

Religion is the cause of several wars in the world and it is my belief that if there wasn't any religion or if there was just one religion then the world would be a more peaceful place. I myself don't believe in God or anything, but I respect those that do and those in other religions. And for you to say that you can't lead a succesfull life without believing in anything is UTTER BULLSHIT. My family is living proof.

[FrenchAffair]

Originally posted by horcrux92
Religion is the cause of several wars in the world and it is my belief that if there wasn't any religion or if there was just one religion then the world would be a more peaceful place. I myself don't believe in God or anything, but I respect those that do and those in other religions. And for you to say that you can't lead a succesfull life without believing in anything is UTTER BULLSHIT. My family is living proof.

Stalin, Mao, Lenin, Hitler, Pol Pot...... hundreds of millions dead at the hands of atheists and secularists in the last century. Religion isn't the problem, lack of religion & false religion (islam) is the problem.

[Axiom]

Originally posted by FrenchAffair

Stalin, Mao, Lenin, Hitler, Pol Pot...... hundreds of millions dead at the hands of atheists and secularists in the last century. Religion isn't the problem, lack of religion & false religion (islam) is the problem.

I see where you're coming from but I did say "several" wars not all wars. Such as the second world war (Hitler hated the Jews), the Iraq war (Al-Quaeda extremists brainwashed with Islam) and so on.

[FrenchAffair]

Originally posted by farhad
Your a lyer and your quoting Bible verses

Whats a lyer?

Furthermore, Women in arabia had short life span, they died at the age of 35, so it was common sense they got married after they hit puberty. How did Prophet raped her when her parents offered her to him and she accepted it. Please stop quoting Bible verses.

How old was Muhammads first wife when he married and raped ashia? How old was his 2nd wife, his 3rd wife, his 4th wife..... they were all over 30 mate.... yet he had to have a little 9 year old girl.

You know what that makes him, a pedophile.

Never heard of this, its not in the quran so stop quoting something that isn't there and provide source before doing it. Womens in Islam are respected and honoured and given right, the voting system for women was stolen from Prophet Mohammed's saying.

You have never hard of Ibn Ishaq and you call youself a Muslim? No wonder you are so unedcuated about Islam. He collected oral traditions that formed the basis of first biography of Muhammad.

[FrenchAffair]

Originally posted by horcrux92

I see where you're coming from but I did say "several" wars not all wars. Such as the second world war (Hitler hated the Jews), the Iraq war (Al-Quaeda extremists brainwashed with Islam) and so on.

Hitlers hatred of Jews had nothing to do with religion, his position was that "jew" was a inferior race. It had to do with secular science.

The very concept of evolution supports racism.

[Tom]

Originally posted by horcrux92
Religion is the cause of several wars in the world and it is my belief that if there wasn't any religion or if there was just one religion then the world would be a more peaceful place. I myself don't believe in God or anything, but I respect those that do and those in other religions. And for you to say that you can't lead a succesfull life without believing in anything is UTTER BULLSHIT. My family is living proof.

Religion is not the cause, religion is the justification. There is a fine line between the two. If there was one religion evil would still occur because people would find loopholes in scriptures in order to justify evil.

I'm semi-religious and come from a fairly religious background. The religion is my choice because I've only just recently gone "that way", obviously my background isn't, but I think it is rubbish when people say you can't live a successful life without religion. There are plenty of people who do live successful lives without religion, and on the flip side there are many religious people with rubbish lives. I feel that IF there is a God then the only way to impress *him* and go to heaven or have a good afterlife is to be a good person whilst you're here. IMO I don't think it matters if you believe or not, I think God will 'accept' anyone who has lead a peaceful life whilst abiding by most rules set out in the Bible, which ironically makes up a large bulk of British law.

[Axiom]

Originally posted by Tom

Religion is not the cause, religion is the justification. There is a fine line between the two. If there was one religion evil would still occur because people would find loopholes in scriptures in order to justify evil.

I'm semi-religious and come from a fairly religious background. The religion is my choice because I've only just recently gone "that way", obviously my background isn't, but I think it is rubbish when people say you can't live a successful life without religion. There are plenty of people who do live successful lives without religion, and on the flip side there are many religious people with rubbish lives. I feel that IF there is a God then the only way to impress *him* and go to heaven or have a good afterlife is to be a good person whilst you're here. IMO I don't think it matters if you believe or not, I think God will 'accept' anyone who has lead a peaceful life whilst abiding by most rules set out in the Bible, which ironically makes up a large bulk of British law.

I stand corrected!

[farhad]

Originally posted by horcrux92
Religion is the cause of several wars in the world and it is my belief that if there wasn't any religion or if there was just one religion then the world would be a more peaceful place. I myself don't believe in God or anything, but I respect those that do and those in other religions. And for you to say that you can't lead a succesfull life without believing in anything is UTTER BULLSHIT. My family is living proof.

So what did World war 1 and 2 had to do with religion?

[farhad]

Originally posted by FrenchAffair

Hitlers hatred of Jews had nothing to do with religion, his position was that "jew" was a inferior race. It had to do with secular science.

The very concept of evolution supports racism.

The vitanamese war, did that had anything to do with religion?

[farhad]

[quote]Originally posted by FrenchAffair

Originally posted by farhad
Your a lyer and your quoting Bible verses

Whats a lyer?

Furthermore, Women in arabia had short life span, they died at the age of 35, so it was common sense they got married after they hit puberty. How did Prophet raped her when her parents offered her to him and she accepted it. Please stop quoting Bible verses.

How old was Muhammads first wife when he married and raped ashia? How old was his 2nd wife, his 3rd wife, his 4th wife..... they were all over 30 mate.... yet he had to have a little 9 year old girl.

You know what that makes him, a pedophile.

Balah Blah Blah, Still it is well known that people in arabia and throughout the world had short life span, Girls in Britain were betrothed at the age of 4, that is what peadophelia is is when the child hasn't passed their puberty. Prophet Got engaged to Aisha at 9 and consumated at 13, some say 16, either way there is proof she might of been 27 at the time of Hijrah. Rape is something when you go aganst someones will, did Prophet go against her will or hit consented from her. Suppose your correct, than why would a sex greedy man marry someone who is well older than him, most of his marriage wasn't for lust, but for political reasons, such as widows. First Bring your proof and evidence then make the accusation.

You should take into account that people often didn't live past 40, so 9 years old would be the equivilent of our 17 or 18.

Never heard of this, its not in the quran so stop quoting something that isn't there and provide source before doing it. Womens in Islam are respected and honoured and given right, the voting system for women was stolen from Prophet Mohammed's saying.

You have never hard of Ibn Ishaq and you call youself a Muslim? No wonder you are so unedcuated about Islam. He collected oral traditions that formed the basis of first biography of Muhammad.

I think its you who dont know any history or anything about Islam, notice you quoted a secondary source over Quran. No books hold authority over Quran, that be it Hadith. Also before quoting something, first quote the full verse, I can see what your trying to do by quoting part of the line and not inserting the whole, so you could put your point across.

Something that isn't directly found in the quran or contradicts the Quran, the word of Allah, I will never take that source as authentic. I know who Ishaq is, then there are few of his things contradict the quran, or maybe it may have been fabricated. First bring your proof from the Quran first then bring the secondary sources, these books should not hold the candle of word of God which is the Quran. Either no other religion which could be said gave right to women, only Islam has. No religion spoke about freedom of faith whilst quran said "No Compulsion in Religion", a black equal to white was completely unheard of until couple of decades where racism here was made illegal, and 1400 centuries Prophet said a Black and white are all equal.

Much of the text of the Sirah Rasul Allah by Ibn Ishaq (Medina 85 A.H. - Bagdad 151 A.H.) was copied over by Ibn Hisham (Basra 1xy A.H. - Fustat, Egypt, 218 or 213 A.H.) into a work of his own. Ibn Hisham also "abbreviated, annotated, and sometimes altered" the text (Guillaume, at xvii). Interpolations of Ibn Hisham are recognizable and can be deleted, leaving as a remainder an "edited" version of Ibn Ishaq, whose original version is lost.

Its believe some of original works of Ishaq have been lost and altered by people. Either way if some these contradicts, we are guided to go back to the Quran, none of these books should hold candle to the word of God, Books like Hadith are word of people, some may be right some may misheard, some were heresay.

[Nurse57]

[Very_Nayce]

Originally posted by FrenchAffair

Stalin, Mao, Lenin, Hitler, Pol Pot...... hundreds of millions dead at the hands of atheists and secularists in the last century. Religion isn't the problem, lack of religion & false religion (islam) is the problem.

The inquest, the crusades, witch burnings. Any of it ring a bell, no? Religion kills too. Both are wrong. The only difference is the Atheists dont use a spectre in the sky to justify it.

Atheists these days tend to be the chaps across the street smoking pot listening to albums you dont hear in the charts. Their not a violent subculture by any means.

[Axiom]

Originally posted by farhad

So what did World war 1 and 2 had to do with religion?

Listen, I suggest you read my post AGAIN. I said SEVERAL not EVERY war has an element of religion involved.