[Nurse57]

"Who's taking offense at the mobo's???" Ok, offence is to strong a word. But you know where I am coming from.

"why cant whites be treated equally to and have the chance to win a MOBO, thats all this is about.

The point is, the MOBOS are exclusive and just as you asked me if I'd be offended by a sign on a house for rent with the words "no blacks" this merely asks the same question namely"

The thing is whites do enter. They win too. Winehouse was best UK female last year and Westwood was the best DJ... again. Past winners have included Jamie Cullum, Justin Timberlake, Christina Aguilera, Eminem. I could go on. What do they have in conmen apart from being white? They all do music that is of black origin. If you asked them that they would tell you the same.

If the MOBO's did not allow white to enter then I would be against it. But the simple fact is they do.

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by Nurse57
"Who's taking offense at the mobo's???" Ok, offence is to strong a word. But you know where I am coming from.

"why cant whites be treated equally to and have the chance to win a MOBO, thats all this is about.

The point is, the MOBOS are exclusive and just as you asked me if I'd be offended by a sign on a house for rent with the words "no blacks" this merely asks the same question namely"

The thing is whites do enter. They win too. Winehouse was best UK female last year and Westwood was the best DJ... again. Past winners have included Jamie Cullum, Justin Timberlake, Christina Aguilera, Eminem. I could go on. What do they have in conmen apart from being white? They all do music that is of black origin. If you asked them that they would tell you the same.

If the MOBO's did not allow white to enter then I would be against it. But the simple fact is they do.

There are black artists in music that was made popular by white artists. Should they win a MOWO?

I just think if the MOBO's are for Hip hop and RnB, they should be named after the genres, not who invented/ popularised that type of music. You wouldn't get it in other genres so I just don't understand the relevance?

It does seem counter productive as well, as Angie says. It puts a divide (however slight) between white and black people. A simple name change wouldn't be difficult.

[AngRemembered]

Originally posted by GiRTh
No the awards should not be banned. The MOBO's started in the mid-eighties as a reaction to the fact that black people were not winning Brit awards. When it first started no one batted an eyelid as it was a small insignificant awards ceremony with little credibility. There was a MOWO's it was called the Brits. It's only now the MOBO's are just as prestigious as the Brits people talk about the racial issues. Why was no one talking twenty years ago when the MOBO's first started.

Is that the official reason the MOBOS started as a protest? I think not, but I'd be happy to see the evidence to support your oppinion/claim

Have you considered the fact nobody "batted an eyelid" as it was a racially motivated ceremony created by choice to openly discriminate on colour, rather like the BNP party, not many noticed there formation too when they fractioned themselves away from the National Front party. Now as they are the ONLY such party that discriminates openly on colour they to have gained more public notice and oppinion to what they are doing.
The brits has ALWAYS included ALL british acts without predudice and certainly had it made any attempt at all or even had a smear of barring groups on colour alone then I'm afraid the brits would have been banned.
oh and as I recall I remember (being one of those like today who actually did batt a few eylids back then) saying in the mid eighties if blacks feel the need to win music awards generally maybe its a bout time they tried harder in producing something different and decent apart from the usual disco and rap, trash they were infamously known for at the time.

In the mid 1980's not many whites won boxing titles or sprint medals but they didnt feel the need to invent another catergory in order to win a belt or a medal, no as I recall they either accepted defeat or got off their collective backsides and trained harder.

Something blacks seem to lack when the chips are down we just mope and hope the PC brigade will come help us out of yet another hole, I said then and I'll gladly say it again, I wish we'd stop bleating and just embrace what we always wanted...to be equal with whites, it seems some mis read the manual thought we'd just get our turn at being superior to whites, and that therein lies the problem.

The MOBOS in this day and age are a disgrace and should be banned immediately

[GiRTh]

It's actually quite a well known fact that the MOBO's were invented for that reason. I think I heard Trevor Nelson say as much in a documentary on Black music in this country.

You say in the 80's blacks didn't win boxing titles? What about LLoyd Honeyghan, Herol Graham, Kirkland Laing etc There were many more too.

It’s generalising to say blacks don't try hard enough and I'm shocked and stunned by your comment about wanting to be superior to white. You're gong to have to explain that.
As I recall Jazzy B and others musicians were making albums that are now considered to be classic. Was he not working hard enough?

The reason no one batted an eyelid was because no one thought it would become what it has become. Now that it has prestige many seems to want to shut it down. Personally, due to the fact that no blacks were winning Brit awards I think the formation of the MOBOs was a stroke of genius. BTW It would also be somewhat prejudicial to ban it due to the fact that we have Latino Grammys.

The MOBO's was always supposed to be a celebration, a redressing of the balance if you wish and when it first started no one seemed too bothered by it. Now so many seem to be offended. Why is this celebration of black music causing so much offence?

[AngRemembered]

Originally posted by GiRTh
It's actually quite a well known fact that the MOBO's were invented for that reason. I think I heard Trevor Nelson say as much in a documentary on Black music in this country.

You say in the 80's blacks didn't win boxing titles? What about LLoyd Honeyghan, Herol Graham, Kirkland Laing etc There were many more too.

It’s generalising to say blacks don't try hard enough and I'm shocked and stunned by your comment about wanting to be superior to white. You're gong to have to explain that.
As I recall Jazzy B and others musicians were making albums that are now considered to be classic. Was he not working hard enough?

The reason no one batted an eyelid was because no one thought it would become what it has become. Now that it has prestige many seems to want to shut it down. Personally, due to the fact that no blacks were winning Brit awards I think the formation of the MOBOs was a stroke of genius. BTW It would also be somewhat prejudicial to ban it due to the fact that we have Latino Grammys.

The MOBO's was always supposed to be a celebration, a redressing of the balance if you wish and when it first started no one seemed too bothered by it. Now so many seem to be offended. Why is this celebration of black music causing so much offence?

I think you need go back and read my post again carefully..
1 I said WHITE boxers didnt win many titles......

I cant believe yopu of all people cant accept PC isnt going the way you wish as seeing all blacks as superior or special.
All of your post suggest otherwise, you wont allow non blacks to use the N word is a classic example coupled with this non PC award ceremony, why the need in an equal socierty?
If blacks as you say work hard why the need to give them there own way of winning things? surely by definition it proves my point.
Whites as in my example with boxing never felt the need to have white only world title fights? nor so create a whites only olympic games where they could win a few more medals in the events dominated by black athletes.
See thats the difference, whites have a tendancy to accept defeat and work hard in trying to come back stronger on merit, blacks kick up a fuss expect whites to back down a merely create a more suitable way of winning an award they dont want equality they want a MOBO awards where they can win, like you say, indeed you prove my argument for me.

And the beauty of this is when whites did CREATE an exclusive appartheid the first to complain were (and rightly so) Blacks, and guess what the world boycotted the worlds worst offenders, Soth Africa in particular.
Now contrast that with the MOBOS and explain the difference, its an out dated idea, it patronises and devalues black talent within the music industry and above all it rascist by definition as its name suggests.
If blacks want to win awards I shouldnt have to explain to anyone why.......... they should damn well be aware of it themselves, you work harder like everyone else non black does.

[Nurse57]

It doesn't matter how hard you work if the style of music you make is not recognised by the mainstream.

Once again you seem to be saying that the MOBO's is just for blacks even though there have been many white winners.

Just a thought. As people seem to think this is racist to whites, can you have an opinion? After all, you are black.

[Nurse57]

Seth Lakeman. A fine artist at the top of his game. If he tries harder will he win a MOBO or kerang award?

Youtube video

No. They have to have a folk awards show for him to win. Should they ban that and tell him to work harder?

[AngRemembered]

Originally posted by Nurse57
Seth Lakeman. A fine artist at the top of his game. If he tries harder will he win a MOBO or kerang award?

Youtube video

No. They have to have a folk awards show for him to win. Should they ban that and tell him to work harder?

oh now would that be the folk awards for white artists? or folk awards for black artists?

I think youve missed the point yet AGAIN, read the thread title, and this from you who wants a PC dominated world, this is how ridiculous that is.
In you recent example we'd have about 26 differnet race cattergories just to determine who can play a bloody violin.
why not just have one awards ceromony like for example the best folk music awards...oh wait a sec thats exactly what they have...right?

[AngRemembered]

Originally posted by Nurse57


Once again you seem to be saying that the MOBO's is just for blacks even though there have been many white winners.

And ever wondered exactly why people make that misconception?

tell me again what exactly does MOBO stand for?
then repeat it a few times and come answer my question..in relation to the title of this thread...

[AngRemembered]

Originally posted by Nurse57


Just a thought. As people seem to think this is racist to whites, can you have an opinion? After all, you are black.

thats my point, PC in my oppinion does exactly that, and dont it annoy the hell out of you when someone fights the cause for whites and they are indeed black all along? dont you feel patronised? silly? wondering why you need any help at all, let alone from someone black?

well if any of that seems familliar welcome to the world of life in a black womans shoes, where you constantly get this and then told that some chat show host in tin buck too arizona called Oprah speaks for you all too.

I think by this stage you be pulling the last standing hair from your scalp, well ive had my fill of this for a week, and all i wanted was tell a humerous god damn story about a feckin doll.
I think ive earnt my right to turn the tables here dont you?

[GiRTh]

You seem to have some issues with your own community. I think you need to explain how you can possibly come to the conclusion that any black person who is not successful simply did not work hard enough. Is that true in every case.

A few days ago you stated that Oprah Winfrey - The most successful black female on the planet, she's worked hard hasn't she - does not speak for all black people. Surely if you fail to acknowledge Oprahs standing within the black community then why should we acknowledge your standing and allow you to make sweeping generalisations like 'Black people don't work hard enough. On top of that you clearly have issues with your own community.

Apartheid was a scheme devised by whites to keep blacks impoverished and in their place, so to speak. Do you really think that is on a par with a ceremony that celebrates black music? Surely you can see the difference.

[Nurse57]

"And ever wondered exactly why people make that misconception"

They don't know the meaning of the word origin????

Music of black origin.
Music of black origin.
Music of black origin.
Music of black origin.
Music of black origin.
Music of black origin.

Ok, I have repeated it. I stand by my opinion.

Tell me, Jazz, Blues, Soul, Reggae, Hip Hop, Urban, R&B. What are there origins?

"and this from you who wants a PC dominated world"

Where have I said that? I have defended some things that people have said are PC gone mad. If me not finding the term "****" unacceptable makes me PC then so be it. What you have to remember is that it was "PC" people like me from the past and what they did that means we don't have signs on shops and bars saying "no blacks" today.

[Shaun]

Originally posted by Markus

Yeah and I don't get why you're a huge pain in the ass who completely disregards peoples opinions just because you know they'll kick your ass in a debate.

Hardly a debate, more of a spout of petty insults. Particularly since you just asked "what the feck is PC?"

In case you hadn't realised, this forum is called "Serious Debates". Not "COME KICK ASS, BETCH."

[Nurse57]

"thats my point, PC in my oppinion does exactly that, and dont it annoy the hell out of you when someone fights the cause for whites and they are indeed black all along? dont you feel patronised? silly? wondering why you need any help at all, let alone from someone black?

well if any of that seems familliar welcome to the world of life in a black womans shoes, where you constantly get this and then told that some chat show host in tin buck too arizona called Oprah speaks for you all too.

I think by this stage you be pulling the last standing hair from your scalp, well ive had my fill of this for a week, and all i wanted was tell a humerous god damn story about a feckin doll.
I think ive earnt my right to turn the tables here dont you? "


I was being facetious. You made note I was white and made it clear I should not have an opinion on race. I was pointing out the stupidity of that statement.

No one stopped you telling your story about the doll. As I said, I did not mention the doll. I commented on the PC gone mad comments.

If all you wanted to do was post a thread about a doll you would not have posted this thread on race and PC where you were guaranteed polar reactions. Please don't tell me you did not expect that. I give you more credit than that.

[AngRemembered]

Originally posted by Nurse57
"And ever wondered exactly why people make that misconception"

They don't know the meaning of the word origin????

Music of black origin.
Music of black origin.
Music of black origin.
Music of black origin.
Music of black origin.
Music of black origin.

Ok, I have repeated it. I stand by my opinion.

Tell me, Jazz, Blues, Soul, Reggae, Hip Hop, Urban, R&B. What are there origins?

"and this from you who wants a PC dominated world"

Where have I said that? I have defended some things that people have said are PC gone mad. If me not finding the term "****" unacceptable makes me PC then so be it. What you have to remember is that it was "PC" people like me from the past and what they did that means we don't have signs on shops and bars saying "no blacks" today.

LOL, and this the guy with a nazi flag in his avatar a symbol many find offensive, what message do you have for them whilst on your "fighting for a PC world" podium?

[AngRemembered]

Originally posted by Nurse57


If all you wanted to do was post a thread about a doll you would not have posted this thread on race and PC where you were guaranteed polar reactions. Please don't tell me you did not expect that. I give you more credit than that.

I posted this thread in reaction to the over reaction to my post on a personal story about one simple doll.

Thats exactly how ridiculous it got with first Sticks demanding I delete the thread then having the damn cheek to suggest the school detain my daughter for the said doll and have me reprimanded for allowing her a harmless doll.
It was you who defended this mans Utter stupidity and ignorance not to mention the total insult those comments made to what was a fun thread posted in general chat.
I took exception to those comments and rightly so, comments which you DEFENDED comments which were totally uncalled for.
If he or you wished for a heated debate (as you clearly did, by adding to that thread) then open a thread in the appropiate place, you chose not to, well I decided to do it for you after the doll story was eventually ruined, and I thought i could give you more credit than that, i guess we all learnt something there then.

[Nurse57]

As you know the pic is from an anti Nazi site. You knew this before. You are now using it to try and help your argument. As I have said before. If people find it offensive then I will remove it. Just ask away.

What message am i making with the avi. Hitler was a murdering ****. If you think he was great you are a ****. Look how silly your hero is.

It is in the tradition of satirical cartoons that Briton excels at.

[Nurse57]

I did NOT defend the comments Sticks made about your daughter. Would you care to look back at my posts.

Tell me, Jazz, Blues, Soul, Reggae, Hip Hop, Urban, R&B. What are there origins?

[AngRemembered]

Originally posted by GiRTh
You seem to have some issues with your own community.

Your damn right I do, thats the only thing me and Oprah have in common thanfully, where we part company is she expects to speak for us all, I on the other hand speak for myself alone, something Ive always done here and something I'll always do.
I only have a problem when people tell me what words I can and cant use, and when I can and cant use them.

[AngRemembered]

Originally posted by Nurse57
As you know the pic is from an anti Nazi site. You knew this before. You are now using it to try and help your argument. As I have said before. If people find it offensive then I will remove it. Just ask away.

What message am i making with the avi. Hitler was a murdering ****. If you think he was great you are a ****. Look how silly your hero is.

It is in the tradition of satirical cartoons that Briton excels at.

Oh,, I know exactly how you feel, I'm just annoyed that your not allowing others the similar respect I have shown you in th past.

I started a thread about a simple doll, in which you chose to support a poster who not only wanted my thread censored or banned, but also my daughter disciplined.
Your complete ignorance it seems has no limits, as you're the very one preaching now about the merits of british humour, why didnt you see tht in the Golliwog thread?

Not only did it the humour then fly a country mile over your head, it only made you contribute to the one poster who was demanding what you take exception to now, the very banning of your innocent yet "could be offensive to some people" views/thread/avatar.
Now is the penny dropping?, and as I felt in the end I had to delete the thread on a simple story about a doll , I will take up your "challenge" yeah I'm asking you to remove the offensive avatar, for the very reasons you chose to support the petty post by sticks.... just for the pure hell of it.

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Nurse57
Have to laugh. From what I can work out by reading posts on these forums, people want the right to say "****" and "***" no mater if it offends people as the world is "to PC" yet you are offended by an awards ceremony that any colour person can win, because it has the word "black" in the title.

I don't get you lot.

Easy to understand. what people want is free speech.....Along wth free speech there is bound to be a sting in the tail. That sting being that free speech means anyone of us at any time could be offended........

The trick is for people to be mature enough to deal with words for what they are worth and shrug off anything offensive instead of running to nanny Government or moderators.......PC encourages a big cry baby society......Words can only hurt if you let them......Therfore free speech is vital for a healthy free expression society....

[Nurse57]

Angie, I have looked back at what I have posted in the golliwog thread. May I counter a couple of points please.


"Oh,, I know exactly how you feel, I'm just annoyed that your not allowing others the similar respect I have shown you in th past."

In what way have I not shown you respect? I have disagreed with you, yes. But not disrespected you. Hell I even apologised when I misquoted/took out of context something you said. You have not done that yet.


"I started a thread about a simple doll, in which you chose to support a poster who not only wanted my thread censored or banned, but also my daughter disciplined."


Because I supported Sticks on one point does not mean I agreed with him on every point he makes. I did not support him on the censoring or banning of the thread. I did not support him on the disciplining of your daughter.



"Your complete ignorance it seems has no limits, as you're the very one preaching now about the merits of british humour, why didnt you see tht in the Golliwog thread?"


I have not commented on the humour of the golliwog thread. You have made an assumption... again. I happen to think that you had balls of steel to do what you did and it was ****ing hilarious.



"Not only did it the humour then fly a country mile over your head,"


See above.



"for the very reasons you chose to support the petty post by sticks"


If you actually read what I posted you will see I have not supported anything Sticks has said on the original post. What I did do is back him when people had a go at him for using the the "people of colour" term.

I did not turn the conversation in to one of race and PC as you seem to think.
It was already well in to that when I joined in.

As I say, please read back through the thread and if you find I am incorrect on my above points then please let me know.


On my Avi. As you have asked, I will remove it. I am a man of my word. It is just a shame you are asking for the wrong reasons.



Bananarama,


"The trick is for people to be mature enough to deal with words for what they are worth and shrug off anything offensive instead of running to nanny Government or moderators.......PC encourages a big cry baby society......Words can only hurt if you let them......Therfore free speech is vital for a healthy free expression society...."


I will remember that the next time my 5 to 10 year old nephews and nieces get upset for getting picked on and are told "****ing ***** **** off home" I will tell the 5 year old to be more mature and deal with it. Thanks for the advice.