[Chemicle]

Originally posted by Darenn

Some people can't get an itunes account.
I can't.
My parents refuse to use their credit card details anywhere on the internet.
&they won't buy me vouchers because that's too much money.

Exactly the same situation with me. e.g would you refuse a free mobile phone, and then go and buy the exact same phone in a shop ? illegal or not.

[bigbr0ther]

Originally posted by Spike

You can't compare it to murder.
People illegally download, get over it. They aren't hurting anyone, just the record companies and stores who make lots of money anyway aren't getting as much.

By focusing on the part about murder you seem to have missed the overall point of the post, so I'll show it to you another way. Would you steal a CD from a CD store if you knew you were going to get caught?

As for your other "points:"
"People illegally download, get over it" This is appeal to common practice, a logical fallacy.
"They aren't hurting anyone" Yes, they are. Not only are they hurting the artist, they are hurting hundreds of marketing/PR people, managers, producers, editors, musicians, and everyone who should have been getting a piece of the money for that CD. It adds up, and it's estimated that thieves are costing the music industry many millions (soon to reach billions) of dollars every year.
"just the record company and stores who make lots of money anyway aren't getting as much." Stealing is stealing, no matter who you steal from. Would you justify stealing a CD because the music shop is making lots of money anyway?

[xDramatick]

Originally posted by bigbr0ther

By focusing on the part about murder you seem to have missed the overall point of the post, so I'll show it to you another way. Would you steal a CD from a CD store if you knew you were going to get caught?

As for your other "points:"
"People illegally download, get over it" This is appeal to common practice, a logical fallacy.
"They aren't hurting anyone" Yes, they are. Not only are they hurting the artist, they are hurting hundreds of marketing/PR people, managers, producers, editors, musicians, and everyone who should have been getting a piece of the money for that CD. It adds up, and it's estimated that thieves are costing the music industry many millions (soon to reach billions) of dollars every year.
"just the record company and stores who make lots of money anyway aren't getting as much." Stealing is stealing, no matter who you steal from. Would you justify stealing a CD because the music shop is making lots of money anyway?

You haven't answered my post..
It still overcomes the rest of yours ;]

[bigbr0ther]

Originally posted by Darenn
You haven't answered my post..
It still overcomes the rest of yours ;]

I haven't read the whole thread. Lol.

I'll look for your post Darenn.

[bigbr0ther]

Originally posted by Darenn

Some people can't?
I certainly can't.

If you can't afford it, don't buy it. That's how things work in a capitalist society.

A week or so ago, I wrote a list of albums I want, and there's about 63 I want. No exaggeration.
I like a WIDE range of music, all styles, some chart, most not.
There's NO way I can afford to buy them all.
I/My parents probably can't afford to even get half of them before Xmas.

A lot of people like a WIDE range of different cars, all styles, all colors. But, unless these people have a lot of money, they can't afford these cars. Rather than stealing them, they live without. If you like a lot of different kinds of music you must either pay for it all or live without some of it.

Bearing in mind also, some of the albums are JPop, and a lot are American, so that'd be an extra cost for paying for the shipping/order.
A lot of the bands/artists I like I never see in HMV, or most music stores.

If the shipping is too high, don't buy it and instead go without it. This is the same argument of "if it costs too much, it's okay to steal it."

I can't get an itunes account because my parents refuse to put their details anywhere on the net, and they wouldn't buy me vouchers either to get round this.

What am I meant to do?

Live without it! Music is not a necessity.

If your parents aren't willing to put their details up anywhere, that means you also can't buy books through Amazon (or anything else on the Internet) but that doesn't give you the right to steal them.

If you really want to buy music, though I don't think you do, get an iTunes gift card at the store and use that to purchase songs with. That way you don't have to enter your credit card information.

If I can afford the CD, and it's one that I'd put priority, then I'd more than likely get it, but I don't get CDs that often because I need other things more.
I do prefer to have the CD as I like having the case+stuff.
But then again, it clutters up my rather small bedroom.

If space is the problem, once you have the paid-for CD, transfer the songs from the CD into your iTunes, then store the CD in the attic or somewhere. That's what I do with my CDs.

Therefore the only alternative I have is to download online, free.

How did you come to this conclusion? I've listed several alternatives already.

I always delete the tracks from my computer after they've been put on my ipod, but that's mainly because of memory issues on my computer.
Limewire's always a last resort. I hate the thing.
I'll do a google blog search for the song/album first, then check SIN [A music download forum], ask my mates, and if I then can't find a torrent for it, I'll go for Limewire.
If I'm honest, most of my music has come from mediafire/zshare/blogs, which is obviously not anymore legal but I do try to avoid Limewire, even for torrents.

I even swap music with my mates. You should see the size of some of my sharing folders. It's practically a music library. That's our way of obtaining music without having to pay full prices. We'll buy CDs then trade them on MSN.
I'll continue to use blogs, hosts, SIN, friends, and the occasional torrent until I'm sent a warning letter.

The source of the music doesn't really matter; in all of these cases you're stealing it.

&that is what's wrong with paying.

[bigbr0ther]

Originally posted by Chemicle
Exactly the same situation with me. e.g would you refuse a free mobile phone, and then go and buy the exact same phone in a shop ? illegal or not.

So you'd steal a phone from a shop rather than pay for one?

[MarkWaldorf]

bigbr0ther no one's going to stop doing it just because you're comparing it to murder/rape. Get over it.

[Chemicle]

Originally posted by bigbr0ther

So you'd steal a phone from a shop rather than pay for one?

no, that's not what i meant, it was an example, i wouldn't steal a mobile phone, if someone was giving it away (like limewire, people share music) then i would take it, i wouldn't steal one though, i don't see the problem in it, millions of people do it, and i'm not going to stop.

[Spike]

bigbr0ther get over it!
People do it and your the last person who is going to stop me, so im going to download even more now because I don't want to pay and even if I did I don't see the point when I can get it for free.
and now I have got into illegal downloading I feel I can do something as bad now, maybe I will go out and murder someone.

[Chemicle]

Originally posted by Spike
and now I have got into illegal downloading I feel I can do something as bad now, maybe I will go out and murder someone.

LMAO!

[DamonJ]

I'd download if it was a fair price.
Say a CD in a shop was £10, that includes the cost of design, packaging, the CD itself, transport from warehouses. Then say the CD to legally download is £10 with physically having it, how is that fair?

[Chemicle]

Originally posted by DamonJ
I'd download if it was a fair price.
Say a CD in a shop was £10, that includes the cost of design, packaging, the CD itself, transport from warehouses. Then say the CD to legally download is £10 with physically having it, how is that fair?

It isn't, they charge you the same price unfairly where they should give a discount because of all those things, if i was going to get a album, i'd get it from a shop rather than online, if i was gonna get it online, i might aswell just download it.

[melanie]

bigbr0ther, aren't you from America? How do you watch Big Brother UK?

[bigbr0ther]

Originally posted by Spike
bigbr0ther get over it!
People do it and your the last person who is going to stop me, so Im going to download even more now because I don't want to pay and even if I did I don't see the point when I can get it for free.
and now I have got into illegal downloading I feel I can do something as bad now, maybe I will go out and murder someone.

I was going to argue with your point... but you didn't actually make one.

Maybe you'd be more convincing if you used logic to defend your opinions rather than just being rude.

Originally posted by DamonJ
I'd download if it was a fair price.
Say a CD in a shop was £10, that includes the cost of design, packaging, the CD itself, transport from warehouses. Then say the CD to legally download is £10 with physically having it, how is that fair?

I agree that it's too expensive, but I disagree that we have the right to steal anything that costs more than we think it should.

Originally posted by Chemicle
no, that's not what i meant, it was an example, i wouldn't steal a mobile phone, if someone was giving it away (like limewire, people share music) then i would take it, i wouldn't steal one though,

So if someone gave you a stolen mobile phone you would take it?

i don't see the problem in it, millions of people do it, and i'm not going to stop.

This is appeal to common practice, a logical fallacy.

Originally posted by melanie
bigbr0ther, aren't you from America? How do you watch Big Brother UK?

Er... It costs too much anyway. I like a wide range of TV shows. Lots of people do it. Those producers are too rich already! Get over it! THE ALIENS BRAINWASHED ME!

Haha, just kidding. I watch it legally via the Channel 4 website.

[Shaun]

bigbr0ther - how do you respond to the argument that downloading music for free is exactly the same, in terms of availability and easiness, as watching the song on YouTube whenever you like? There's absolutely no difference. In fact, with YouTube you even get to watch the music video as well, which is even more than what you get with just an mp3 recording.

As well as this, are artists actually losing anything? Do you see the likes of Rihanna and Mika living in squalor because of this? No. They're living it up at parties and awards and raking the cashflow in, and for those of us without the money to pay for whatever music we want to listen to, which we could do anyway by YouTube, radio, or whenever, it's a much easier and, IMO, morally-sound alternative.

[bigbr0ther]

Originally posted by Shaun
bigbr0ther - how do you respond to the argument that downloading music for free is exactly the same, in terms of availability and easiness, as watching the song on YouTube whenever you like? There's absolutely no difference. In fact, with YouTube you even get to watch the music video as well, which is even more than what you get with just an mp3 recording.

The difference is that actually having the song on mp3 is more convenient and accessible to you, and you are paying for that convenience every time you buy a song. You save time searching for the song every time you want to listen, you can put it in your iTunes and add it to playlists, you can put it on your iPod.

If watching on YouTube were easier and better, why wouldn't you just watch it on YouTube instead of ever downloading it?

As well as this, are artists actually losing anything? Do you see the likes of Rihanna and Mika living in squalor because of this? No. They're living it up at parties and awards and raking the cashflow in, and for those of us without the money to pay for whatever music we want to listen to, which we could do anyway by YouTube, radio, or whenever, it's a much easier and, IMO, morally-sound alternative.

"which we could do anyway by YouTube, radio, or whenever" Then why don't you just do that?

It's not okay to steal from someone that has a lot of money, and in any case the money from the music sales doesn't just go to the artist. It gets divided up between a lot of other people on the way, and you're stealing from all of them too. A lot of people and talent go into making a CD, not just the artist.