[Sticks]

This morning when putting Jade's case, I was told that the only reason I was criticising Adele was because she was black.

I had never even considered race at all, but her actions.

It seems from now on we must not criticise Adele or we run the risk of being labeled as racists, or open to the charge of "Incitement to racial hatred"

I felt very uncomfortable about this accusation as I am a firm exponent of diversity and multi-culturalism

[Janette]

Where were you accused of racism Sticks?

[Sticks]

Local to where I live

I am a bit paranoid about commenting about a certain contestant now.

[Janette]

I wouldn't worry Sticks, we know you're not racist!

The vast majority of people on this forum can have a proper debate without accusing anyone of racism, sexism etc... so post away

[jbellemeg]

Who on earth thought your remarks were racist?
Surely we are entitled to pass comment on any of the housemates without being accused of being racist?
You carry on Sticks we are behind you. Freedom of speech and all that.
Bad language and smut is what we object to.

Racism is a very serious issue, and lots of people suffer as a result of it. In my younger days (late 70s) I used to be an anti-fascist (I still am but in those days I had more energy!) and used to meet up with others to try to stop the National Front selling their filth on the boundary of a mainly Asian area in East London, close to my home.

Unfortunately, I have seen people wrongly accused of racism, it has happened to me more than once, when they have no other argument to offer.

If someone accuses you of racism, you have to ask them: did you make generalised negative assumptions about members of a particular race? Did you use a negative label about a particular group of people? Did you suggest people of a certain race were somehow inferior? Did you physically attack someone just because they were of a certain race? Did you try to get elected to an office by playing on other people's prejudice or xenophobia?

Or did you simply not like someone because of their behaviour as an individual?

I assume you did the last of these. Well, attack the evil, conniving, nasty piece of work as much as she deserves, because her colour is not an issue here. And if anyone accuses you of being racist, ask them precisely in what way you were!

If they cannot substantiate it, and simply use racist as a term of abuse, then they are no better than the Nasty Fascists (geddit?) I campaigned against all those years ago! And, by going over the top and finding racism where is does not exist, they provide the NF and BNP with their sick arguments.

So there!

[James]

I have not seen any criticism of Adele from anyone here, or anywhere else, that I thought was because of the colour of her skin.

But as long as the words 'evil' and 'nasty' are used to describe a participant in a gameshow, it is not difficult to see how some people - especially those who are not eager viewers of Big Brother - can get the wrong impression.

[vanityC]

This is very interesting conversation, because I have recently begun to wonder about the race/sex issue in BB. I
think it is larger than any one person, because I don't think anybody dislikes Adele because she is black. But
consider this: in the three years of Big Brother, the main hate figures of each year have been Mel, Amma and
Adele - all attractive, intelligent black women. This worries me. It's hard enough being a woman in the BB
house, but it seems that if you are an ethnic woman, you're screwed.
On the other hand, maybe it has nothing to do with race, and more to do with the fact that the public seems to
dislike strong women. Most upsetting is that it's not so much because men can't stand them, it's because women
can't stand them. The majority of voters are women and most of the real anti Mel/Amma/Adele seemed to
come from other women.
I'm not going to go into my reasons for defending Adele again (already done that elsewhere), but maybe this
raciscm/sexism issue should be pondered on a little.
Does anyone think there is still some inherent predudice in society, meaning that BB winners will always be white
males? I mean, has a person of ethnic origin ever survived the public vote? Yes, Darren, but I think he only
scraped through.
Serious post, I know, but I see BB, in many ways, as a reflection of the attitudes of the British public. And I'm
not sure I like what I see....

[Janette]

In Big Brother 1 I didn't like Mel because she was manipulative and after all the men, it had nothing to do with the fact that she was black.

In Big Brother 2 I had no real problems with Amma, I felt she was a bit boring and couldn't relax and be herself, colour didn't come into the equation.

In Big Brother 3 I really liked Adele at the beginning, but she has proved in my opinion to be sly and two faced. That is why I don't like her.

If we have to vote people out, we choose specific reasons for our vote, I hope that this does not mean that we will be accused of voting them out because of their skin colour.

I am voting for Adele to be evicted because she isn't a very nice person, simple as that!

[vanityC]

I don't believe that anybody votes because of skin colour, and that's not what I said.

I am merely asking the question: is it just a coincidence that every year the most unpopular housmate has been a black woman, or is there more to it? But enough on that...

I have to say that, like by most of the public, Mel and Adele have been judged incredibly unfairly by you. I don't believe this has anything whatsoever to do with race, but we seem to be setting standards for these women that are practically impossible to reach (ie you must behave in the way the we, the public, deem correct, and if not, we will hate you).

What, I ask you, is so wrong with being attractive to men? And what's wrong with flirting? When did flirting become a terrible thing to do? Though if I'm remembering correctly, Mel was flirtatious at the beginning of the show with a couple of her housmates, but once Tom left, I didn't see her flirting again at all. Yet the public had made their minds up, and that was that.

Adele is the most hated housemate of this year, and you claim that she's not a very nice person. Would you think more highly of her if she insulted her housemates to their faces? I don't think so. Does that mean she's not allowed to have negative opinions about other people? Or perhaps she's allowed to, but she must keep those opinions to herself? What I would like to know is - why should she? Don't you ever talk about people who piss you off, but also understand that telling them to their faces is just nasty and serves no purpose? "Honesty" is not a good enough reason to hurt another persons' feelings. To me, it's about having empathy and compassion and having an understanding that even those who you don't like deserve to be treated in the way that you want to be treated by others. If somebody doesn't like me, I would prefer not to be told about it, and I don't care if they talk about me behind my back - what I don't know won't hurt me.

Adele's main mistake is that she will be found out, NOT that she is doing something heinously mean or unacceptable. She is, in fact, doing something that 99% of the public do, and yet she is being crucified by people who are taking the moral highground (ie "it is Wrong to bitch about people, and I Never do it") which is complete nonsense.

Instead, viewers of BB should take a step back, look at Adele as a human being, as opposed to the evil cartoon character without any human qualities that she has been dubbed. This is an edited show, and in reality, Adele's "bitching" is probably quite minimal, it's just that C4 want to accentuate it by showing it every time she does it, simply to get the public riled. If that's the case, their ruse has worked well, don't you think? Despite this, it's still fairly obvious to me that for all her bad points, Adele has many good points.

One thing that bothers me about BB is the public's complete unwillingness to change their minds about a person once they've been made up. Adele (and Mel) were unpopular from pretty early on and I don't think there is a single thing Adele could do now to redeem herself in the public's eyes. I mean, think about it, does Adele really deserve the amount of hatred being thrown at her (Edith from RISE called her the devil incarnate, for God's sake)?

Another thing - I hear a lot of people claiming that she has some sort of cunning game plan. Why would anyone think that? If that's true, it is the WORST game plan in the history of game plans. She has failed entirely, because winning BB has absoultely nothing to do with how your fellow housemates see you, it's to do with how the public see you.

Anyway, apologies for ranting (I can't seem to help myself when it comes to this crazy show) - please don't think I'm accusing you - or anybody else - of racism because I'm definitely not. I mean, I disliked Alison, because I found her loud and annoying, not because she was black.

I should get back to work...

Vanity C

I know that Sticks has expressed a theory before about non-white people getting a bad deal in Big Brother eviction votes.

The only evidence for that, in my view, is Alison's eviction, because she had none of the character traits that normally get people evicted. She was not bitchy (Adele/Narinder). She did not come across as sly (Mel). She did not switch her smile off as soon as the other person's face turned away (Amma).

On the other hand, she was bubbly and fun, a sort of male Jonny. And nobody can say it was merely because she was against Alex, because Sandy was also there, and he was a grumpy old git just like me!

That one has always worried me!

But as far as Adele is concerned I hope she gets what she deserves tonight!

P.S. The most unpopular character in BB2 was not a Black or Asian female: I think (at the time) it was Stuart (, though he has since redeemed himself with some of the stuff he has done for BB fans). He was followed closely by Elizabeth.

[Sticks]

I thought Josh had a higher vote than Stuart, but then I might be accused of trampling on another taboo. Best to stop here

Originally posted by Sticks
I thought Josh had a higher vote than Stuart, but then I might be accused of trampling on another taboo. Best to stop here

I think the size of Josh's vote was because he was up against the big romance, and because he had upset the Brian fan club by getting his own back on the romantic date night.

I remember thinking he was out of order at the time, but when I saw Discolady's and Dolly's tapes I realised that Brian had it coming!

[WILDCHILD]

Originally posted by vanityC
One thing that bothers me about BB is the public's complete unwillingness to change their minds about a person once they've been made up. Adele (and Mel) were unpopular from pretty early on and I don't think there is a single thing Adele could do now to redeem herself in the public's eyes. I mean, think about it, does Adele really deserve the amount of hatred being thrown at her (Edith from RISE called her the devil incarnate, for God's sake)?
Vanity C

Vanity, you have made some really good points here. I dont like Adele but its not because I am getting too carried away with the game or anything like that, I just didnt find her a very nice person. She was my favourite in the beginning and when people accused her of being 2 faced ,I denied it a lot and refused to believe it.
Then, more and more I was hearing conversations where she basically was just plain rude about people for no reason. Jonny may have irritated her, a lot of ppl in my life irritate me but it doesnt mean I can turn around and say, 'i dont like them, they are w***ers' - I find that nasty and I am not going to start liking them just because they are in a weird enviroment, at the end of the day, every thing that comes out of their mouths is their own words, no matter where they are and who they are with.

I quoted from your post because I think you madea really good point, that annoys me about Big Brother as well how people can let a person make one mistake and then never let them live it down. It is ignorant and unfair - then again, look at Helen, she wasnt particulary loved at the beginning of the second series, but she became a national treasure!!

[James]

Even though I like Adele and I believe that the brickbats that have been aimed at her are totally unjustified, I have never thought it was anything to do with her being black.

Big Brother is a show that is made and watched, in the main, by people who are fairly open-minded in these matters.
And also, a lesbian woman nearly won the first series and a gay guy won the second and I would have thought that gay people still face more prejudice that ethnic minorities in 2002 Britain.

In a round about way I think saying that racial prejudice plays a part in these eviction votes does black people a disservice. It sort of perpetuates the idea that people should be characterised by their race.

If a fan of a housemate raised the issue of racism just to keep their favourite in the house, when they knew it wasn’t true, that would be very wrong. Not that I am accusing anyone of that though.

Originally posted by Oldgit
I know that Sticks has expressed a theory before about non-white people getting a bad deal in Big Brother eviction votes.

The only evidence for that, in my view, is Alison's eviction, because she had none of the character traits that normally get people evicted. She was not bitchy (Adele/Narinder). She did not come across as sly (Mel). She did not switch her smile off as soon as the other person's face turned away (Amma).

On the other hand, she was bubbly and fun, a sort of male Jonny. And nobody can say it was merely because she was against Alex, because Sandy was also there, and he was a grumpy old git just like me!

That one has always worried me!

Big Brother history shows us that characters like Alison are voted out fairly early. Half the viewers find them bubbly and fun to watch; the other half just find them to be less funny than they are made out to be and annoying. And it’s these viewers that are enough to get the housemate evicted.

The precedents were Caroline in BB1 and especially Bubble in BB2.

Does this put your mind at rest OG?