[Wildcat!]

Originally posted by Rory

..but everyone else did.

I'm not saying John McCain's plan was superior, because he would've been the last candidate I would have chosen for the republican party.

What I am saying, is that he has become a celebrity BASED ON his skin color.

My local radio stations did polls, asking people on their way out who they voted for and why. Some said Obama, simply because he's the first black president.

Blacks voting for blacks only because they're black couldn't be deemed racist by the public because of the society we live in today. Racism is not always portrayed as equal among others: blacks can be racist and get away with it, while whites have to tiptoe around any subject involving race.

Does that make a difference? The issue at hand is: did black people only vote for Obama because he is black.

He didn't win just because he was black, but he recieved some votes based on skin color because it's a radical change.

To be honest, I didn't want either to win.

Point is, would Obama have won if he was a republican?
Answer that logically!

[Rory]

Originally posted by Aint_mad_atcha

Point is, would Obama have won if he was a republican?
Answer that logically!

Point is, did some people not care about whether or not Obama was a Democrat or a Republican and voted based solely on his skin color and the celebrity status that came with it?
Answer that logically.

[Wildcat!]

Originally posted by Rory

Point is, did some people not care about whether or not Obama was a Democrat or a Republican and voted based solely on his skin color and the celebrity status that came with it?
Answer that logically.

YOu still didnt answer my question! The fact is, African Americans, usually vote democrats, about 70 to 80%. So not that much different than this year. I am thinking it was more like 85 to 90 %.
Colin Powell as a possible republican candidate in the 90s had less than 50% support from the African American community. So to answer your question, some people might have voted for Barack Obama, solely based on the fact that he is Black! But its a minority. Most people woulve voted for him regardless, because he is a democrat! And by the same token, some caucasian americans probably didnt vote for Obama, because he is black. And given the fact that caucasian are the large majority of the population, that fact has more of an effect! NOw who do you think woulve won i Obama was republican and Mccain was a democrat?

[Ruth]

Originally posted by bananarama

You insult your own intelligence by such a rude reply. However i will be generous and suggest it's not your intelligence that is the problem (Although your rudeness is) it's your perception of the real world that is the problem......As i said to another dream on just dream on and enjoy your fantacy......

Huh? How was I rude You insulted the intelligence of the person before me to respond to your post. I simply requested that you didn't treat me the same way. I believe that you are the one being rude.

And my perception of the real world....ah - more rudeness on your part, and patronising to boot.

Well - now I am going to be rude. I find your replies rude, patronising and irrelevant to the subject at hand. Believe me, I do not live in a fantasy world. I said that certain voters no doubt voted for Obama based on colour alone. I believe that. However, I also believe that other voters voted for McCain based on Obama's colour alone. Both are 'racist votes' if you want to call them that.

I'm sorry if you found my earlier reply rude, but truthfully it was not intended to be. However, I found your replies throughout this thread to be withering and rude.

And that is all I have to say to you, and all I'm going to read from you, because right now, I'm off to press the ignore button. I don't usually bother with it, but hey - that's what it's there for. If you think I'm so rude, why don't you put me on ignore too?

[Ruth]

Originally posted by Rory

Point is, did some people not care about whether or not Obama was a Democrat or a Republican and voted based solely on his skin color and the celebrity status that came with it?
Answer that logically.

Right - without the help of a crystal ball I will be struggling, but here goes. Would Obama have won if he was a Republican? I don't believe so.

Did some people vote based on Obama's skin colour? Probably. Some people voted against him because of his colour, and some people voted for him because of his colour. However, the amount of black people who voted for him (for whatever reason) could not have swung the vote for him, if white people had not also voted for him in their droves.

Look - some people would have voted for McCain purely because he is a war hero (the forces usually vote Republican - I doubt that changed in this election). Some people would have voted for McCain because they didn't want a black guy running the country. Some people would have voted for McCain because they would have liked to see Sarah Palin as VP, because of her gender.

People vote for so many different reasons. Sometimes it's based on policies, and sometimes it isn't. It would be nice if it was always based purely on policies, but it never has been and never will be. The colour was just one more thing that some people may have voted on.

[Rory]

Originally posted by Ruth

Right - without the help of a crystal ball I will be struggling, but here goes. Would Obama have won if he was a Republican? I don't believe so.

Did some people vote based on Obama's skin colour? Probably. Some people voted against him because of his colour, and some people voted for him because of his colour. However, the amount of black people who voted for him (for whatever reason) could not have swung the vote for him, if white people had not also voted for him in their droves.

Look - some people would have voted for McCain purely because he is a war hero (the forces usually vote Republican - I doubt that changed in this election). Some people would have voted for McCain because they didn't want a black guy running the country. Some people would have voted for McCain because they would have liked to see Sarah Palin as VP, because of her gender.

People vote for so many different reasons. Sometimes it's based on policies, and sometimes it isn't. It would be nice if it was always based purely on policies, but it never has been and never will be. The colour was just one more thing that some people may have voted on.

We're not talking about winning here..

But, a lot of news coverage is showing black people who are happy there is a black president and it seems that they only voted for him because he is black. Now if you turn the tables and white people vote for white people then celebrate that its a white president, there would be uproar.

So has it been racist voting, just to an extent or not at all?

Sure, other people voted for different reasons...

he's asking, were there really people who voted for him only because he was black? Could this be racism?

Yes. People voting against him because he was black is racism as well.

Let's answer his question, which be both seem to settle on: His race has had something to do with him getting/receiving votes.

Yes, there are other factors, but the bolded fact above is true.

[frontstorm]

Originally posted by Tom
I'm not clued up on the election that much so in terms of the policies etc I'm not sure what I'm on about.

(a) Neither am I.

... and I'm sure Obama deserved to win.

(b) "He didn't deserve to win."
(Quick EDIT) I meant to say that he "did" deserve to win.

But, a lot of news coverage is showing black people who are happy there is a black president

(c) Of course they are happy. Why wouldn't they be?

it seems that they only voted for him because he is black.

(d) You are very observant, but really it is expected.

Now if you turn the tables and white people vote for white people then celebrate that its a white president, there would be uproar.

(e) That does sound rather racist. But who uses that word when talking about "white men & women?"

So has it been racist voting, just to an extent or not at all?

(f) I can tell you have already worked that out. I know I have.

[frontstorm]

Originally posted by Chri$
African American's have been focused on because it a Moment in History for them.

(a) I don't believe forum member "Tom" used the term "African American's." Why you?

But its not just African American's who voted for him.

(b) Nobody said they did.

[frontstorm]

Originally posted by Pj
Im glad people voted for Obama because mckain couldn't run a chippy.

(a) You maybe glad, but stating that John McCain. (Thats with two "cC", not "ck") couldn't run a chippy is just your way of showing us of how little you know about the man.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally posted by Tom
I'm not clued up on the election that much so in terms of the policies etc I'm not sure what I'm on about ... and I'm sure Obama deserved to win.

But, a lot of news coverage is showing black people who are happy there is a black president and it seems that they only voted for him because he is black. Now if you turn the tables and white people vote for white people then celebrate that its a white president, there would be uproar.

So has it been racist voting, just to an extent or not at all?

Well if white people had been made slaves and treated like second classes citizens, tortured and hanged not so long ago, they may have been elated to see a white president elected! You have to look at the social context.

And myself as a white person celebrate not only the fact that a good man with principles has been elected, but prejudice and racism are ideologies that are dying in that country

[frontstorm]

Originally posted by Lauren
Would a black person vote a fundamentally racist party, though? No.

(a) That wasn't really what forum member "Tom" was asking. But as you brought it up. No racist party would ever come close to winning. We should all know that.

Iowa, which is 91% white population voted Obama in too.

(b) One state out of fifty one tells us nothing. But I do find it interesting that a state in America has just 9% non white population. That is strange.

What would the numbers look like if we looked for the % of people who voted for McCain were white?

(c) I don't know. Nobody could or would every inform us of that sort of info. But it would be interesting to say the least. But would any of us believe it? I would remain sceptical.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Im sure some black people voted for him because he was black but I dare say more voted against him because he was black.

I would hazard a guess that most people voted for him because they wanted CHANGE, progression, and because he is a good man with sound and just principles

[frontstorm]

Originally posted by Aint_mad_atcha
Historically, African americans votes in numbers for the democratic candidate. BIll Clinton had about 80% of them vote for him, so does most democratic candidate! In 1996, when Colin Powell was a possible candidate against Bill Clinton for the Repulican party, he got less than 50% support from the african american community.

(a) So if a thousand Americans vote for their prefered candidate. Whether democrat or republican. We are told "in percentages" how many voters were white and how many voters were black. I find that a bit strange to be honest! Why give that information out? Why should it matter whether they are black or white? Why believe those numbers?

SO as obviously there will be some people that vote with race, due to the fact that its the 1st black candidate with a realistic chance, the fact is, its a victory of the democratic party over the republicans.

(b) It's more than obvious that black Americans will vote for a black candidate.

George W Bush and his policies and past decisions have swayed voters anyway. Also John McCain and his Sarah Palin weren't very good opposition imo. That gave Obama the advantage.

If it was Hillary clinton, she wouldve gotten about the same support form the african american commuity!

(c) Thats terribly obvioius.

[frontstorm]

Originally posted by Chewy
Obama won, simply because he is President material, NEW President material, gone are the days of which President who you will like to have a drink with, America has realised they need an intelligent man in charge

(a) He is a better puppet than George W Bush was, I'll give you that.

[Novo]

Originally posted by frontstorm

(a) He is a better puppet than George W Bush was, I'll give you that.

[frontstorm]

Originally posted by bananarama
Would he have won had he been a Republican!!!!!!!!!I think the answer to that is a resounding..Yes>>>>>>>

(a) After the mistakes that George W Bush and his lot had made, I wouldn't be so cocky.

[frontstorm]

Originally posted by David
America wanted a change, that is why they voted for him.

(a) We are also looking for a change in Great Britain. My money is on the Conservatives.

If anything white people voted McCain because they didn't want a black President, as proven by some videos on the net.

(b) There will be a racial angle, I'm sure. But I wouldn't spend too much time studying videos on the net, just to tell me what I already know.

[NettoSuperstar!]

the last change we need is the Conservatives! thats a step backwards!!

[frontstorm]

Originally posted by Spike
Yeah it is racist no matter how you dress it up. It seems its wrong for white people to not vote for Obama because he is black but its acceptable for black people to vote for him for that exact same reason
Both white and black people voted for him but there is no denying that a large percentage of those black voters did vote on race or let it swing them.

(a) Doesn't seem right or fair though. In fact I find it quite offensive, being a white man.

If he had of been white, my bet would have been on McCain winning.

(b) I don't believe that at all. The Republicans have made a real mess of things and there needed to be a change for the American people. Obama is a good candidate anyway, whether he is black or white, his chances of winning the election were much better than McCain's were.

There is that horrible Sarah Palin remember.

[frontstorm]

Originally posted by NettoSuperstar!
the last change we need is the Conservatives! thats a step backwards!!

Start a new thread about it. I'd be interested in hearing your reasons for sticking with Labour.

[frontstorm]

Originally posted by Ruth

Maybe, but not exclusively. Obama, after all, took most of the white vote as well. Now, I'm sure that some black people voted for Obama purely because he is black. But I'm also sure that plenty of white people did not vote for Obama, purely because he is black.

(a) I doubt any white person would have voted for him because he is black. That would be like Adolf Hitler voting for a Jewish man. Some things are simply not done. I do however agree with your speculation that some black people voted for Obama purely because he is black. Maybe some could mean 85% or close. That sounds reasonable and believable.

Originally posted by Ruth

Many African Americans are happy because Obama becoming president proves that your colour does not have to be a barrier.

(b) The same could be said with any black man or woman who gets a powerful job.

Originally posted by Ruth

Remember, up until the 1960s, black people were not even allowed to ride on buses with white people. That's really very very recent. He has proven that your colour does not have to hold you back.

(c) The 1960's are not really very very recent. But I understand what you are trying to say.

[frontstorm]

Originally posted by bananarama

Dream on and search for the real world......The land of fantacy is old hat......

(a) Thats rather rude imo.

You just have a difference of opinion. Perhaps you should have stated your reasons for your comment rather than:- "Dream on, search for the real world >> and......so fourth"

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Rory
did black people only vote for Obama because he is black.

They had a choice between a black man or a racist. If they voted Obama based on the fact he was black rather than a racist, then I would wholly support that choice.

A lot of white people voted McCain because he was white as opposed to black, also.

That being said... Democrats won over Republicans, not Blacks over White.

[frontstorm]

Originally posted by Ruth
Obama never made an issue out of his colour.

(a) I think it would have been stupid if he did. The media would have played on that and especially the Republicans. It could have cost him the election.

He was not running as The First Black President. He was running as The Next President (who happens to be black).

(b) Thats true. I like the man. Whether he is black or white doesn't concern me. But I do take issue with one part of forum member Tom's OP. Which I have already expanded on.

He is an inspirational figure, and all this bitterness, and people claiming that the voting was racist (not you Tom - you asked a legitimate question) need to bone up on the facts before making ridiculous claims.

(c) It is understandable that many people may question the motives for voting in a black president. I have already said that if Obama was white, I do believe the democrats would still win, as George W Bush made a real pigs ear of things throughout his term in office, so a change was virtually imminent.

[frontstorm]

Originally posted by bananarama

You insult your own intelligence by such a rude reply. However i will be generous and suggest it's not your intelligence that is the problem (Although your rudeness is) it's your perception of the real world that is the problem......As i said to another dream on just dream on and enjoy your fantacy......

"The Americans wanted a change from the Republican party, and no wonder! "

(a) That sounds good enough to me!

Black or white, the democrats needed to run America once again. The change is necessary and so is the man at the top. John McCain is virtually a dinosaur anyway. And that four-eyed Sarah Palin is just pathetic.