[Vicky.]

Originally posted by BBUK4LYFE
I have a question for you, Vicky.

If you were having an argument with someone. Lets say someone from the US.

While arguing, he starts mimicking your British accent.

So you are telling me, you wouldn't find that a bit offensive in the least?

No not really...unless he started with 'you english scum' or something simliar and then went on to mock my accent...but even then I wouldnt find it that offensive, no.

If I had mocked his accent before, and he did it back, I would have no grounds to complain anyways.

[AhmedFan2004]

Originally posted by VickyJ
That makes no sense at all...to have equality we need favouritism in certain places...well thats NOT equality is it.

LOL. To have equality in one regard (race) you may well need inequality in another regard (e.g. financial means, whatever) that is connected. It's just something that's a part of life I'm afraid. To re-address the disparity between races, close the gap, etc.

Originally posted by VickyJQuite simply, if sree thought it was ok to mock others accents, then he should be prepared for others to do it back.

Which he was, he didnt class it as racist, so neither should you.

No, for the billionth time, it's not that simple! You just look at it like that for convenience sake!

And you know why it's not that simple. And it's not about whether he felt it was racist or not on that particular occassion; the point was, mocking an indian accent can be offensive, esp in a heated argument as a form of attack.

But a Brazilian accent ... just no. Hence why BB did NOT bring anyone in the DR over mimicking Rod, even in arguments. They never did it, did they.

It's just not the same Vicky. That's the point. It's two seperate cases to be handled differently. It's not simple ... like you WANT it to be.

Life is not simple, or equal, or easily dealt with. It has layers. Sad, frustrating, tiresome, but true.

[BBUK4LYFE]

Originally posted by VickyJ

No not really...unless he started with 'you english scum' or something simliar and then went on to mock my accent...but even then I wouldnt find it that offensive, no.

If I had mocked his accent before, and he did it back, I would have no grounds to complain anyways.

Sree mocked Marcus's accent before?

[Vicky.]

Originally posted by AhmedFan2004

No, for the billionth time, it's not that simple! You just look at it like that for convenience sake!

And you know why it's not that simple. And it's not about whether he felt it was racist or not on that particular occassion; the point was, mocking an indian accent can be offensive, esp in a heated argument as a form of attack.

But a Brazilian accent ... just no. Hence why BB did NOT bring anyone in the DR over mimicking Rod, even in arguments. They never did it, did they.

It's just not the same Vicky. That's the point. It's two seperate cases to be handled differently. It's not simple ... like you WANT it to be.

Life is not simple, or equal, or easily dealt with. It has layers. Sad, frustrating, tiresome, but true.

I dont want it to be simple...it IS simple.

Racism is racism whoever is on the recieveing end...it really IS that simple.

I've already said this anyway. We are going round in circles.

You think its only possible to be racist to indians, because of history, and I disagree...lets just leave it at that...

[AhmedFan2004]

Originally posted by Shasown
So what you are saying is its okay for Indians to mock others for their language and culture, but not okay for anyone else to mock Indians because of something you perceive as abuse in the past.

Well in the former case the mocking wouldn't be very effective. You could complain that they are trying to be derogatory, or their intentions are bad. So that is grounds for complaining. But not for racist offense, since it connects to nothing. Just like me calling you 'whitey' would mean jack to you. And yes, connotations to the past obviously matter. Otherwise nobody would ever get offended at mocking accents, racist terms, phrases, etc - They'd have no link, or basis. That is why me calling you 'whitey' means zilch; no link, or basis.

[Vicky.]

Originally posted by BBUK4LYFE

Sree mocked Marcus's accent before?

I dont remember specifically but he mocked a few of the other peoples accents, yeah.

Which is why I dont see how it could be offensive, if he feels its ok to do it to others, then why not have it done back to him...he obviously doesnt find it offensive if he does it himself...

[Shasown]

Originally posted by BBUK4LYFE
I have a question for you, Vicky.

If you were having an argument with someone. Lets say someone from the US.

While arguing, he starts mimicking your British accent.

So you are telling me, you wouldn't find that a bit offensive in the least?

I wouldnt find it offensive at all, I would simply know I had won the arguement if the person had to stoop to a tactic like that.

And I would leave them in no doubt that that is what I thought of the arguement and their tactic.

Mind my accent is pretty hard to mimic

[BBUK4LYFE]

Originally posted by VickyJ

I dont remember specifically but he mocked a few of the other peoples accents, yeah.

Which is why I dont see how it could be offensive, if he feels its ok to do it to others, then why not have it done back to him...he obviously doesnt find it offensive if he does it himself...

Well if that's the case. All is fair game in my book, but it depends on the context of how it was done.

[AhmedFan2004]

Originally posted by VickyJ

I dont want it to be simple...it IS simple.

Racism is racism whoever is on the recieveing end...it really IS that simple.

I've already said this anyway. We are going round in circles.

You think its only possible to be racist to indians, because of history, and I disagree...lets just leave it at that...

Yes I think we've come to a dead end here, hooray.

I don't think it is simple. I think it's a very complex issue. There's lecturers and teachers of this stuff with decades of learning ... not simple.

Yes, racism is racism. But racism to a white person? Different ball game? Is mocking Indian accents and mocking Brazilian accents gonna have the same effect (all else equal)? NO.

I think history is very important and must be considered with regards to these phrases, actions, etc. It it not like what you think it is; let's be equal, etc.

We need inequality to have equality. I've explained this to you. But again, you don't like it, because it appears complicated. Tough luck!

[BBUK4LYFE]

Originally posted by Shasown

I wouldnt find it offensive at all, I would simply know I had won the arguement if the person had to stoop to a tactic like that.

And I would leave them in no doubt that that is what I thought of the arguement and their tactic.

Mind my accent is pretty hard to mimic

Well if someone started mocking mines in an argument, I would feel offended.

[Shasown]

Originally posted by AhmedFan2004

Well in the former case the mocking wouldn't be very effective. You could complain that they are trying to be derogatory, or their intentions are bad. So that is grounds for complaining. But not for racist offense, since it connects to nothing. Just like me calling you 'whitey' would mean jack to you. And yes, connotations to the past obviously matter. Otherwise nobody would ever get offended at mocking accents, racist terms, phrases, etc - They'd have no link, or basis. That is why me calling you 'whitey' means zilch; no link, or basis.

Then in reality it is your problem with the past. If you cant accept the fact that in colonial times an Empire was won, and to keep it the over seers of said empire had to keep the people underneath downtrodden.

If the British were that bad and so intrinsically racist that we always have had and will hold such views of other races, why oh why do indians and other asians come over to the UK and settle? Is it they actually like being abused, its so deep rooted in their psyche they feel the need to come to the home countries of the oppressive and xenophobic Brits to live, just to get their weekly ration of abuse?

[Vicky.]

Originally posted by AhmedFan2004

Yes I think we've come to a dead end here, hooray.

I don't think it is simple. I think it's a very complex issue. There's lecturers and teachers of this stuff with decades of learning ... not simple.

Yes, racism is racism. But racism to a white person? Different ball game? Is mocking Indian accents and mocking Brazilian accents gonna have the same effect (all else equal)? NO.

I think history is very important and must be considered with regards to these phrases, actions, etc. It it not like what you think it is; let's be equal, etc.

We need inequality to have equality. I've explained this to you. But again, you don't like it, because it appears complicated. Tough luck!

It isnt complicted though, you are making it complicted by bringing history and stuff into it...

Now, I was never too good at history but was there ever problems as bad as between brits and indians, between say...chinese and brits? I dont think so, but if there was I can pluck a few other examples for you.

In that case, by your reckoning, its ok to call chinese people derogatory names (ch**ky etc) and mock their accents, because there is not history there?

And if you class it as racist, it would not be as bad racism as calling an indian a ****?

I think you are very very wrong about that. It is equally as bad.

History or no history, racism is racism. So yes, it IS simple.

[setanta]

I agree in part that racism can come from anywhere but you must understand it's potentially far more explosive and illjudged to mock an Indian's accent when you consider the weight of history and all the other connotations involved.

I'm Irish and if an English person were to mock my accent in the heat of an argument I'd blow a fuse with them..... it's just a kinda knee jerk reaction for nations or a race of people who have been oppressed in some shape or form from their recent past.

Hey, I'm not a slave to pc or anything like that but I do think that Marcus was a bit silly to stoop to that level, whatever his intentions were.

[BBUK4LYFE]

I have no idea about the history between the British and the Indians. I never really followed British History. So I feel if you mimic anyone's accent regardless of background its offensive. So I disagree with Ahmed on that part, but he could be right.

[Vicky.]

Originally posted by BBUK4LYFE
I have no idea about the history between the British and the Indians. I never really followed British History. So I feel if you mimic anyone's accent regardless of background its offensive. So I disagree with Ahmed on that part, but he could be right.

That was exactly my point...

All racism is bad...it is not worse racism just because it is an indian on the recieving end.

[Viper29]

Surely what Marcus said back to Sree was EXACTLY what Sree had just said to insult Marcus (ie making out that Marcus was dumb for not knowing 13 13s),

So really racism doesn't play any aspect as the point Marcus was making was that Sree was trying to be arrogant with the shopping sums, so when Marcus got the sum quicker in his head repeated the insult back to Sree!

The fact he repeated it the way Sree said it had no racial connotations, but was highlighting Sree's arrogance of his own intelligence!! ( Sree was also guilty of doing this with Freddie )

[fitz2k2]

sree best housemate ever in big brother this yr #2 would be marcus,#3 halfwit

[incywincy]

Originally posted by AhmedFan2004

No, you're really way off the mark here, I'm actually gobsmacked.

You cannot say that history doesn't matter because we live today, that's a totally nonsense argument. History pervades everything of today, every second is founded upon the previous second. We are a product of history, the past determines the future.

And another key thing. Yes, racism to a white person is still racism. But my point is, you can't just be racist to him by simply mocking his accent. There's no inference, there's no history of prejudice that it implies. There's no deep-rooted suffering or inferiority implied by it. It's just a cheap dig.

Or you could say, that it is VERY midly racist, and MUCH less so than the reverse of mocking an Indian accent. The potentiality of offense is much greater because of what it implies and infers.

Tell a white guy he'd make a good sugar cane farmer.
Tell a black guy he'd make a good sugar cane farmer.

Do you get it yet? It's racist in one case, not in the other. And yes, because of history. YOU CAN'T IGNORE HISTORY for benefits. Sorry.

I can't believe all that is being spouted here by AhmedFan2004.

You do tend to twist things to make sure that it fits your argument. however you are totally correct in the fact that you cannot ignore History.

It seems that most people who scream racism do so mainly at the Western people.

They bring up the slavery of the US as their prime example.

History has shown that there was misguided interference by the Spanish invading the USA and in conjunction with the English trying to change the Native Americans by clothing them and trying to change their religious beliefs among many more atrocities - WRONG!!!!!

The colonisation of Australia by the English. Sending criminals to prison camps not taking any consideration to the natives who already inhabited this Country. WRONG!!! at the time, but has since benefitted in being a great Nation who seem to have the utmost respect for their Native Countrymen.

The colonisation of India by the English. Misguided and WRONG!!!

The treatment of the slaves brought from Africa by the Americans - the worse of all the examples - WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!! Again brought on by ignorance of the period that was the beginnings of a culture.

There has been notes of slavery since time began, there will always be someone stronger.

As it happens now, there is no longer slavery of this kind and mercifully most Countries are allowed to be left in peace to believe in what they want.

This is where all the anti-racist people stop agreeing with me, because there is truth on many angles, some they like to hear and some they don't.

But this is where History pulls away from the atrocities of the extremists of the Western World over a matter of a few hundred years for each example and then we move to the atrocities that surround the Indian, Pakistani & Arabian world - The extremists of the Muslim Culture.

For the last 1430 years of the Muslim calendar there have been atrocities that have far outpaced what the Western world have done. The Culture believes not in the freedom of choice and anybody who does not want to conform to their beliefs are disposed of in some pretty awful manner. Decapitation seems to be an all time favourite.

History shows this over time. Whereas savagery has got less in all other societies, it seems that in the extreme Muslim society it has only gotten worse. It is sad to see that racism is alive and well within this culture and is not limited to just a single Country and its' people, but towards the whole non-Muslim world. These people are the true racists with inbred hatred to anyone not like them.

I welcome a multi-cultural world, and if I went to a different Country to live I would try to blend in to their way of life but also keep my own sense of the identity I was brought up with, whereas I think that anybody who moves to the UK or any other country should do the same, abide by the rules and laws of that Country and try to interfere with these.

I am not racist, but the way people speak so negatively about my Country whilst enjoying the benefit of what the Country gives them makes me extremely angry.

Let me give you a little history of my life and our racist problems. I am a patriotic Welsh girl. I speak the language and love it's history. The Welsh have been mercilessly picked on by our own Countrymen since the Saxons came here. Welsh is the oldest language in Europe, dating back at least 2500 years and initially all of Wales and most of England spoke the Ancient Welsh dialect. Then with the Saxon's invasion and the years that surpassed gave birth to the overburdening superiorities that were the Ancient English. The Welsh language nearly died out in the 19th century, due to a belief that English was superior, and was the only language which should be used throughout the British Empire.

A report of 1847, written by three English barristers who did not speak one word of Welsh between them, castigated Welsh culture in general, and Welsh schools in particular. It largely ignored the problems of poverty, deprivation, and poor housing, but determined that the problem with under performing Welsh schools lay with the Welsh language.

Our children ended up being chastised and beaten for speaking our native tongue in the schools. Our identity was slowly being being beaten into submission.

As a child I was bullied by local children (and some of the parents) for being Welsh. I still have to defend my language at times from other "Welsh" people who deem to think that's what they are because they live here, like the sterophonics and Tom Jones and follow the National Rugby team, but never once tried to learn the language or it's true heritage.

But we don't scream racist or jump on the racism bandwagon. We fight for our rights with courage and determination, hence now the Welsh language in on the up, we have bi-lingual street signs and more and more Welsh schools are being built and have a healthy waiting list of families desperate for their children to have the education that it provides.

Our accents are mimicked by many, either in jest or in malice, but if we walked into a police station to complain, we would get nowhere.

So what makes us different to the Indian person who's voice gets mimicked. It comes down to the politically correct crap pussyfooting state that we all live in. Scared to say boo to a goose. Hence the word racist has become overused and diluted by the small minded people who throw it in at every chance. racist isn't the mimicking of an accent, racist is for example, the KKK's beliefs that anyone who isn't white is wrong, it is the belief that anyone who doesn't follow the Muslim religion is wrong, it is the person of one culture who beats up another BECAUSE of their opposite culture that is wrong.

The main culprit of Racism is religion, hence I have no religion. I prefer it that way.

This is way to early on a Monday for me to be preaching my opinions, but these are my opinions and I strongly stand by them. I have friends who are Indian, Serbian, Chinese, Italian and Egyptian. We have had many chats over a glass or two of wine, where we all end up agreeing that it is a handful of extremists of every culture that breed racism.

Most people are happy to live in peace if just left to it.

I am sure there will be many people who will now come back on this post with animosity towards me, hell I may even get banned from here, but I feel I had to write this because reading all the was being said on here was making me so angry.

Stop using the word RACIST and RACISM on a whim, it is a strong word and should only be used for extreme purposes.

History will be something that will teach us where we went wrong, but it seems that society will keep making the same mistake over and over again.

[incywincy]

Originally posted by VickyJ

No there wasnt anything good behind it...but it was just an arguement...he shouldnt have done it...but it wasnt racist.

During an arguement about shopping marcus is hardly going to think 'oh I might mock his culture because he is of different race to me, lets mimick his accent' is he?

And he was given his official warning for that argument, not because of the mimicking of Sree's voice. It was because it was getting extremely heated.

It seems ok though that Sree was picking on Freddie because of his learning difficulties.

funny how he would answer hms cairon and marcus back either when hes leaving the room or when they are leaving the room l pussy

[incywincy]

That's because he was a coward, he would only shout back at someone when there was someone around to back him up if it got rough, or he would be running like a lapdog to Lisa whining away

[ange7]

He was like bea in that mid way through an argument he'd walk into another room and try to get help.

[incywincy]

Originally posted by ange7
He was like bea in that mid way through an argument he'd walk into another room and try to get help.

he wasn't as clever as bea though, I really still have trouble figuring out how he got his job as head of the Student Union (or whatever it was), he's hardly the most elloquent and brightest button is he!!!

[Shasown]

He is currently a student at Hertfordshire University and President only of the Student Union at that location.

What i would like to know though is did he ever clear up his student visa problem or is he still an "illegal".

Originally posted by Shasown
He is currently a student at Hertfordshire University and President only of the Student Union at that location.

What i would like to know though is did he ever clear up his student visa problem or is he still an "illegal".

haha my brothers going to that uni if me and my brother see him well so slap his ass